Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

harms said:
What men? His whole army was butchered (hence Ramsey saying that Jon doesn't have an army anymore when he returned to Winterfell)

It's actually a big problem, the Knights of the Vale are the only military power left on the North and Littlefinger can do whatever he wants, despite Starks being Wardens again
Click to expand...

You heard what the other Lords said when he was negotiating for men. They wouldn't back Jon while the Boltons were in power, now the Boltons are gone and the Starks are back to being Wardens of the North you will see them rejoin his Family.

I think judging by the shots of the battle, there were still around 500 of his men left (discounting the archers). So he probably still has a smallish army of loyal men. The question is what does Littlefinger do now, he ultimate goal is to be sat on the Iron Throne so you have to consider from his position that it's like Chess. He just moved his Bishop forward and removed a Knight from the board, so whats his next move to get checkmate? He either destroys the Freys or allies with them to take down the Lannisters.
 
Epic episode! The one we've been waiting for really, GOT's seasons operate like a marathon not a sprint.
 
RedSky said:
You heard what the other Lords said when he was negotiating for men. They wouldn't back Jon while the Boltons were in power, now the Boltons are gone and the Starks are back to being Wardens of the North you will see them rejoin his Family.

I think judging by the shots of the battle, there were still around 500 of his men left (discounting the archers). So he probably still has a smallish army of loyal men. The question is what does Littlefinger do now, he ultimate goal is to be sat on the Iron Throne so you have to consider from his position that it's like Chess. He just moved his Bishop forward and removed a Knight from the board, so whats his next move to get checkmate? He either destroys the Freys or allies with them to take down the Lannisters.
Click to expand...

He surely won't become allies with the Freys. They were responsible for the Red Wedding, they killed the woman he loved his whole life.
 
Fantastic episode - although not sure why that fleet attacking Daenary's just gave up so easily - yes the 3 dragons destroyed 1 ship, but what about the rest?
 
Coxy said:
Fantastic episode - although not sure why that fleet attacking Daenary's just gave up so easily - yes the 3 dragons destroyed 1 ship, but what about the rest?
Click to expand...

Guess they saw the dragons and thought "feck that"?

I was more surprised that the masters she was negotiating with didn't anticipate dragon attack. Everyone knows she has dragons at this point, you'd think they might have expected it once she turned back up.
 
onemanarmy said:
He surely won't become allies with the Freys. They were responsible for the Red Wedding, they killed the woman he loved his whole life.
Click to expand...

If it suits his own goal then maybe. I just can't see Jon Snow marching south when he knows whats coming his way in the form of the White Walkers. He's reclaimed his home, he's removed the Boltons and reclaimed the status quo. What he now needs is to make Winterfell the stronghold and get as many men back to the wall as possible.

So from a storys perspective, it's a struggle to see how the Freys will meet their end. Unless Jon and co decide that the only way they can defend the wall is with the help of Riverrun I suppose. That would then provide a reason to march on the Freys.
 
There was no DEM in that episode. It appears there's a lot of confusion about what that even means.

This guy knows, though :D
Ijazz17 said:
I used to think Deux Ex Machina was some pop culture reference to that Ex Machina movie. I never saw it, so I never understood it either. :p
Click to expand...
 
The battle was really well done. Music, the fighting, the atmosphere was all ace.

I dont understand those who just adore any sight of/scene with dragons, though. I imagine they love any rubbish Jurassic Park, Transformers film as well.
 
This thread was way more interesting when you all argued about spoilers rather then taking a Deuce Ex Machina all over it
 
I like the theory that Sansa is just evil, and knew by not telling Jon about the giant mounted battle-changing force that was en route, she was actually hoping he'd die and take the North for herself.

That or she's a teenage f*cking dipsh*t moron like she is at the start of the books/show.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The battle was really well done. Music, the fighting, the atmosphere was all ace.

I dont understand those who just adore any sight of/scene with dragons, though. I imagine they love any rubbish Jurassic Park, Transformers film as well.
Click to expand...

If you're referring to the first one then we can no longer be friends.
 
Beachryan said:
I like the theory that Sansa is just evil, and knew by not telling Jon about the giant mounted battle-changing force that was en route, she was actually hoping he'd die and take the North for herself.

That or she's a teenage f*cking dipsh*t moron like she is at the start of the books/show.
Click to expand...

Tbf she did say she knows nothing about battles and had been told the plan was to be patient. Jon Snow should be getting all the criticism here. Not sure I'd want that guy to be leading me if he's just gonna abandon plan and go running off on his own. Hardly Sansa's fault he's a dipshit.
 
sullydnl said:
Guess they saw the dragons and thought "feck that"?

I was more surprised that the masters she was negotiating with didn't anticipate dragon attack. Everyone knows she has dragons at this point, you'd think they might have expected it once she turned back up.
Click to expand...

They probably knew (or thought) that two were chained up and useless, and the other had vanished.
 
sullydnl said:
Tbf she did say she knows nothing about battles and had been told the plan was to be patient. Jon Snow should be getting all the criticism here. Not sure I'd want that guy to be leading me if he's just gonna abandon plan and go running off on his own. Hardly Sansa's fault he's a dipshit.
Click to expand...

Well I mean, he did talk about not having enough men and Sansa just stared at him blankly... so you know, she's hardly absolved herself.
 
Beachryan said:
I like the theory that Sansa is just evil, and knew by not telling Jon about the giant mounted battle-changing force that was en route, she was actually hoping he'd die and take the North for herself.

That or she's a teenage f*cking dipsh*t moron like she is at the start of the books/show.
Click to expand...
Sansa knew that if the Vale lined up with the Stark forces before the battle and out numbered the Boltons, Ramsey would have just put all his men inside Winterfell and they could never have won. Sansa won the battle, not Jon and the show runners showed that woth the Sansa Littlefinger scene with her smiling.
 
Last edited:
Also, isn't a bit weird that the death of a Stark child is almost a complete afterthought in this episode?

To be fair, the show did a pretty bad job with Ricon overall, so they probably did the best that they could... but yeah, the death of a Stark child should be huge you'd think.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Also, isn't a bit weird that the death of a Stark child is almost a complete afterthought in this episode?

To be fair, the show did a pretty bad job with Ricon overall, so they probably did the best that they could... but yeah, the death of a Stark child should be huge you'd think.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Rickon looks about 18 though in the show now, so the shock factor of killing a kid that is supposed to be about 8 years old is taken away a little I think.
edit: also with all the murders of innocent people that have taken place I think people are starting to realise that this world is shitty and even Stark child deaths aren't as outrageous and sad as they would have been in series 2 for example.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Also, isn't a bit weird that the death of a Stark child is almost a complete afterthought in this episode?

To be fair, the show did a pretty bad job with Ricon overall, so they probably did the best that they could... but yeah, the death of a Stark child should be huge you'd think.
Click to expand...

Rickon was a minor character who only ever featured in the background of any scene he was in. So his death was just a way of pushing the battle forward away from the plan Snow had.
 
dellboyy said:
They probably knew (or thought) that two were chained up and useless, and the other had vanished.
Click to expand...
They already saw her with the "vanished" dragon at the arena, when he came to save her - and while she was AWOL the logical thing to assume was that she was still with her dragon. She also flew right to the pyramid when their fleet already attacked the city and there is no way they would've missed a dragon flying over them. So it would've been reckless of them to assume that they won't appear and influence the battle or negotiations
 
JustAFan said:
Rickon was a minor character who only ever featured in the background of any scene he was in. So his death was just a way of pushing the battle forward away from the plan Snow had.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, as far as his stock in the show goes, the death was about right. But as a son of Ned Stark, you'd think it'd be a bigger deal I guess... but that would involve going back in time and doing more with his character in general.
 
sullydnl said:
Guess they saw the dragons and thought "feck that"?

I was more surprised that the masters she was negotiating with didn't anticipate dragon attack. Everyone knows she has dragons at this point, you'd think they might have expected it once she turned back up.
Click to expand...

They thought two were tied up in a dungeon, my only thought is that they did not think she had control over the 3rd, though why they did not know that given she had fled Meeren on it's back. She arrived back in the middle of the night and the dragon flew off and hid, so perhaps they did not know she had returned WITH a dragon under her command. they should have at least been a bit suspicious that a dragon attack was a possibility. But then again FDR should have expected an attack by the Japanese maybe not on the exact date and place, but should have expected it was coming. Russia should not have been caught so unprepared for the NAZI invasion. Shit happens.
 
Last edited:
sullydnl said:
Tbf she did say she knows nothing about battles and had been told the plan was to be patient. Jon Snow should be getting all the criticism here. Not sure I'd want that guy to be leading me if he's just gonna abandon plan and go running off on his own. Hardly Sansa's fault he's a dipshit.
Click to expand...

He tried to save his brother you evil bastard :(
 
harms said:
They already saw her with the "vanished" dragon at the arena, when he came to save her - and while she was AWOL the logical thing to assume was that she was still with her dragon. She also flew right to the pyramid when their fleet already attacked the city and there is no way they would've missed a dragon flying over them. So it would've been reckless of them to assume that they won't appear and influence the battle or negotiations
Click to expand...

Good point actually! When they were planning the battle, she was most likely still 'awol', leaving just the two chained up dragons... but once they saw her fly in on one, that should have certainly made them think twice!
 
Watched Ep. 9 late last night after the footie. What a great episode but I hate it how they keep playing things down for convenience. Like last week, how Arya took down the Waif without a whimper even though she had been severely hacked down days before and Waif was still a better fighter than her. Wun Wun was under-utilised and it would have been great seeing him as a one man, er giant wrecking machine. That battle was set up for him to go out with a bang.

I would have preferred it if Bolton had been broken pretty much like he broke Theon. I thought that's what Sansa had planned until I realised he was in the kennels. He still got off too lightly in my opinion.

And boy that sexual tension between Dany and Yara. Please, please make it so! :drool:

Here's hoping the High Sparrow's next for the chop!
 
Wibble said:
Didn't Tyrion untie the other 2 dragons earlier in the season?
Click to expand...
I think he did but he didn't let them out of the cave (not sure it was even physically possible). It was funny how easy they destroyed the walls though and it's strange why they haven't done that sooner
 
dellboyy said:
Good point actually! When they were planning the battle, she was most likely still 'awol', leaving just the two chained up dragons... but once they saw her fly in on one, that should have certainly made them think twice!
Click to expand...

Again she flew in under cover of darkness, so it is likely they did not see her return.

Wibble said:
Didn't Tyrion untie the other 2 dragons earlier in the season?
Click to expand...

I believe he did, but left them in the cave/dungeon.
 
Prodigal7 said:
Sansa knew that if the Vale lined up with the Stark forces before the battle and out numbered the Boltons, Ramsey would have just put all his men inside Winterfell and they could never have won. Sansa won the battle, not Jon and the show runners showed that woth the Sansa Littlefinger scene with her smiling.
Click to expand...
Two things:

1. That gives Sansa so much more credit than she deserves from any of her experiences in the show.
2. If only there were some hugely obvious way Jon and the Vale could break down the gates of Winterfell. I mean massively obvious. So big he's hard to miss.
 
Beachryan said:
Two things:


2. If only there were some hugely obvious way Jon and the Vale could break down the gates of Winterfell. I mean massively obvious. So big he's hard to miss.
Click to expand...

LOL, probably helped when they finally did attack Winterfell that it was pretty lightly defended, what with the Bolton Army being pretty much destroyed. Even with knocking the gate down, if there were 6K men inside Winterfell (assuming the battle outside of Winterfell did not take place, it would have been a difficult fight. The Vale Horsemen would not have had the effect they had on an open battlefield. Plus the Bolton's that remained did not have time to barricade the door, which if the battle outside had not taken place, they would have had the manpower to do. The Giant who broke through the gate at the wall was killed inside the tunnel, so that shows having a giant break the door down would not guarantee success.
 
Beachryan said:
Two things:

1. That gives Sansa so much more credit than she deserves from any of her experiences in the show.
2. If only there were some hugely obvious way Jon and the Vale could break down the gates of Winterfell. I mean massively obvious. So big he's hard to miss.
Click to expand...
1. :rolleyes: Please, this is the moment where the show demonstrated Sansa's development as a character. Influence by the trauma she's endured so far and moulded by Littlefinger. She is now a calculating and manipulative player and active participant in the game of thrones (though I think she'd just settle for Winterfell). She beat/shit all over Ramsey and if it wasn't for her Jon would have lost and died, Sansa would have been pursued, captured and eventually killed. Also, all the direwolves names are symbolic:
Greywind (A strong but brief force of nature) - Rob Starks life
Summer - Summer being killed represents Winter destroying summer
Shaggydog - A narrative that builds up to a pointless conclusion i.e. a "shaggydog story" describes the life of Rickon.
Ghost - Jon has been a ghost all his life and could technically be a ghost as he's been brought back from the dead.
Nymeria (Arya's direwolf) is a book character and I understand book details are forbidden so I'll leave that one out.
Lady - The lady side of Sansa was killed, foreshadowing Sansas transformation from a helpless and naïve Lady into a political mastermind. Now completed


2. A handful of archers almost took down Wun Wun. You really think Thousands of archers and spearmen on the walls of Winterfell couldn't bring him down? :lol:

Jon is the character that everyone wants to get behind because his approach is the most glorious and "honourable" if that word can be used in any context. But the whole idea of GoT (the books and the show) is that being a good warrior and honourable doesn't win you wars.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.