Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

  • Total voters
    2,033
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hal9000 said:
We don't know what he's said, i don't think he's said anything publically apart from the "i'm happy at Barca" line at the international pressers. There is some obvious game afoot, i don't think we would spend 2 months chasing a player who has given an indication he doesnt want to come. We've heard many different things, he's open to a move, he wants his money owned, he doesn't want to leave, he's been convinced to move by Ten Haag... I personally think he's open to coming, but he obviously does not want to lose out on almost 2 years of money, which is why Barca are rolling out the line of "he doesn't want to leave and we can't sign players till he does"
Click to expand...
If he really wants the move without offending anyone, it's much easier now after Barca agreed a fee and leaked that they wanted him gone. He could say that he wanted to stay but if it's not possible he understands that it's a business and he would like to settle everything with Barca before he make his decision.

Not this he wants to stay leaks that we have
 
wolvored said:
I hope this is finalised by this end of friday. Arnold gave them a deadline of Friday and if he still doesnt want to come, for whatever reason, then Utd should walk away, otherwise we will look even bigger twats than ever. Im sure if he doesnt come we can find a midfielder or two somewhere else.
Click to expand...

We already have its Tielemans. Good luck with that
 
Adnan said:
I don't believe it's sensible move for Ali Dursun to wage a campaign against Barca via the media. And from what's been reported, Ali Dursun and Barcelona’s working relationship is broken. The agent in question is on good terms with United from what's reported.

This is a mess created by Barcelona.
Click to expand...
I agree it's a mess created by Barcelona but I don't see how it's not a sensible move for Ali and Frenkie to go public with this and wage their own campaign against Barca especially if their relationship is already broken and they want nothing to do with the club. They can state their he is not moving anywhere until he is paid through their friends in the media without ever being on quote and at the same time dragging Barca in the mud publicly which Barca would not want.
 
Powderfinger said:
Why should he let any of the money go?

FDJ has all the power in this situation. The transfer literally cannot happen without his assent and Xavi isn’t going to freeze him out of the team or something if he doesnt move.

If his agent has any clue whatsoever, he has told everybody involved that the only way he’ll consider a move is if Barca pays every cent of his deferred wages and United also gives him a pay raise to compensate him for moving away from his dream club. Anything else, don’t even bother calling, my client is happy to stay.
Click to expand...
That’s only true if legally he deferred wages - something that has been questioned. Apparently he signed a new contract that backloaded his wages NOT deferred them. So legally he isn’t owed anything.

Of course he has the right to see his contract through, but I don’t think he has any standing to accept the transfer and still get his money, which is why he’s adamant he’s not leaving.
All the arguments that he should just leave and fight this in court might not be in his favour after all.
The leverage he has in this scenario is that Barca need him off the books so he might be able to finagle some payment for leaving - but it won’t be all the money he gave up upfront when he signed the new contract.
 
All this saga is like going to the Gemini's house from Saint Seiya (pun not intended)
 
Becks00 said:
I agree it's a mess created by Barcelona but I don't see how it's not a sensible move for Ali and Frenkie to go public with this and wage their own campaign against Barca especially if their relationship is already broken and they want nothing to do with the club. They can state their he is not moving anywhere until he is paid through their friends in the media without ever being on quote and at the same time dragging Barca in the mud publicly which Barca would not want.
Click to expand...
I think that's a stupid idea to be honest.
 
Ole's screen said:
That’s only true if legally he deferred wages - something that has been questioned. Apparently he signed a new contract that backloaded his wages NOT deferred them. So legally he isn’t owed anything.

Of course he has the right to see his contract through, but I don’t think he has any standing to accept the transfer and still get his money, which is why he’s adamant he’s not leaving.
All the arguments that he should just leave and fight this in court might not be in his favour after all.
The leverage he has in this scenario is that Barca need him off the books so he might be able to finagle some payment for leaving - but it won’t be all the money he gave up upfront when he signed the new contract.
Click to expand...

Yeah exactly this, frankly his agents were idiots. This is why players supposedly use agents in the first place, to sort out problems from tricky bastards like Barcas lawyers. Barca must have walked out of that meeting laughing.
 
Ole's screen said:
That’s only true if legally he deferred wages - something that has been questioned. Apparently he signed a new contract that backloaded his wages NOT deferred them. So legally he isn’t owed anything.

Of course he has the right to see his contract through, but I don’t think he has any standing to accept the transfer and still get his money, which is why he’s adamant he’s not leaving.
All the arguments that he should just leave and fight this in court might not be in his favour after all.
The leverage he has in this scenario is that Barca need him off the books so he might be able to finagle some payment for leaving - but it won’t be all the money he gave up upfront when he signed the new contract.
Click to expand...

In this case, his agent can just say that his client will see out his contract at his dream club unless they’re willing to pay the full amount.

I think people have somehow convinced themselves that FDJ has to move or doesn’t have leverage. But that’s just not how it works. The player always decides his own future in the end. The idea that FDJ will voluntarily forfeit millions to move to a club that is less desirable to him than the status quo just isn’t realistic. If his agent allowed that to happen, why would any player hire him again?
 
pocco said:
I remember that they were all practically in agreement that the overall fee was agreed at €85m, but many including Romano I believe, said the fixed aspect was agreed also at €65m. They were saying the the structure of the €20m add ons was still to be agreed.

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong. There's no way I'm trawling back through the thread to find out anyway :lol:
Click to expand...
That's mostly correct, yeah. The guaranteed amount was never in hard agreement (Romano reported it as an agreement but never made it seem like that would remain to be the case). The add-ons were always in contention; even that total amount wasn't necessarily agreed to.
 
Becks00 said:
I agree it's a mess created by Barcelona but I don't see how it's not a sensible move for Ali and Frenkie to go public with this and wage their own campaign against Barca especially if their relationship is already broken and they want nothing to do with the club. They can state their he is not moving anywhere until he is paid through their friends in the media without ever being on quote and at the same time dragging Barca in the mud publicly which Barca would not want.
Click to expand...
I would say the agent has already gone public via the United press pack.
 
Powderfinger said:
In this case, his agent can just say that his client will see out his contract at his dream club unless they’re willing to pay the full amount.

I think people have somehow convinced themselves that FDJ has to move or doesn’t have leverage. But that’s just not how it works. The player always decides his own future in the end. The idea that FDJ will voluntarily forfeit millions to move to a club that is less desirable to him than the status quo just isn’t realistic.
Click to expand...

Thats what I said. And that’s why you’re seeing reports from his end (which I believe is Romano’s source) that he wants to stay at Barca.
And I believe Barca will have to pay him some money to leave - partly covered by the increased transfer fees.
However it’s not as clear cut as some suggest. He isn’t being denied any money that’s legally owed to him. His agent was definitely an idiot to sign the new deal without any clauses relating to if Barca decided to sell him.
His leverage is that Barca need to sell him, not that he is legally owed the deferred wages - that’s all I’m trying to say. That’s why he can’t budge from his stance that he’s gonna stay at Barca until he can essentially force Barca to pay him enough that he’s satisfied leaving.

However at the end, I think this mess is more on his agent than Barca. Barca are just doing smart (but definitely scummy) business. Frenkie and his agent are mad they they got played and are using the only leverage they have left - wanting to see out the contract.
 
Yeeess Ali. Wage war against them and expose them for their scuminess towards players. Now we know why Barca wants to get rid of Frenkie - to get money and save 17m at the same time when its clear its their own fault. No money? dont sign players you pricks.
 
Wheato said:
So it's welcome to Manchester United. We might not be in sunny Spain, but at least you'll get paid and treated with a modicum of respect.

De Jong is worth the battle. He's absolute quality. He'll make spoofers like Pogba look like Carlton Palmer.
Click to expand...

tbf. Fergie tried to get Carlton Palmer to United.
 
Leethal said:
I miss the days of when you knew there was a signing, was when you saw him holding a club scarf above his head in the paper or on the news.

Now you got all this social media shite, where muppets hang on to every single word of any Tom, Dick and Harry on Twitter/YouTube/TikTok. And to make shit worse, they get assigned stupid arbitrary "tiers" based on how lucky they are, (or if they state the obvious; ala: Romano", all in the sake of trying to gather a social media celebrity following. I work with statistics (I have been a professional poker player for 10+ years), and let me tell you, sample size is everything. Some of you are putting all your stock in a person who has gotten maybe one? two? three? things right? Come on. That's ridiculous. You're literally clinging on to any scrap thrown your way in pure desperation.

I don't know what's more embarrassing: The clowns on social media? Or the clowns that buy into it?
Click to expand...

No new information or updates, but need to look like I know something…

Barça in locked contract with @ManUtd since days! @FdJ preparation for next phase of agreement. Project pushed and sold to player!
 
Leethal said:
I miss the days of when you knew there was a signing, was when you saw him holding a club scarf above his head in the paper or on the news.

Now you got all this social media shite, where muppets hang on to every single word of any Tom, Dick and Harry on Twitter/YouTube/TikTok. And to make shit worse, they get assigned stupid arbitrary "tiers" based on how lucky they are, (or if they state the obvious; ala: Romano", all in the sake of trying to gather a social media celebrity following. I work with statistics (I have been a professional poker player for 10+ years), and let me tell you, sample size is everything. Some of you are putting all your stock in a person who has gotten maybe one? two? three? things right? Come on. That's ridiculous. You're literally clinging on to any scrap thrown your way in pure desperation.

I don't know what's more embarrassing: The clowns on social media? Or the clowns that buy into it?
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
tenpoless said:
Yeeess Ali. Wage war against them and expose them for their scuminess towards players. Now we know why Barca wants to get rid of Frenkie - to get money and save 17m at the same time when its clear its their own fault. No money? dont sign players you pricks.
Click to expand...

Except it seems legally they dont owe him the money, so buying new players is not an issue. He accepted a new deal with back loaded payments. That's on him and his agents, if Barca have written a water tight legal contract then yeah he should fire his agent.
 
Berbaclass said:
I think that's a stupid idea to be honest.
Click to expand...
Well I don't think so, dragging Barca name in public to get paid helps them a lot, if they have decided to move. The I am staying until you pay me threat would still be there with the added pressure on Barca being called out publicly.

I sense you don't think I'm in favor of the deal or don't believe it would happen ultimately, that isn't the case. I just don't believe deferred wages is the biggest issue holding up the deal, I think De Jong himself is the one delaying it and I think should he okay it now, then the whole deferred wages issue would be solved quickly.
 
Ole's screen said:
Barca are just doing smart (but definitely scummy) business.
Click to expand...
De Jong has all the power and if he insists on not signing anything they won't even be able to register already completed signings. In what world is that smart business from them?
 
Rhyme Animal said:
This is sounding more and more messy…

Do Utd fans honestly want him if he doesn’t even want to be at Utd? Is that really a wise type of player to sign?
Click to expand...

Yes because our other choices are either worse, cost way more money, both or we stick with mcFred. Frankly getting Tielemans and Sangare is a much worse proposition, and lets be honest chances we get two is zero, so we swap fdj for Tielemans.... that that means a midfield of Fred and Tielemans, we will get murdered week in week out...
 
Becks00 said:
This.

And if what @Ole's screen described turns out to be the case, I don't see how it's not in Ali Dursun and Frenkie's best interest to fight this out in public if they have decided to move.
Click to expand...

Why would a football agent burn his bridges with a major club like Barcelona? Frenkie may leave and never go back to Barca but the agent may have other players to sell to Barca. Easier for Frenkie to be the aggressor here.
 
Adnan said:
I would say the agent has already gone public via the United press pack.
Click to expand...
Nah that feels more like it's coming from United. If the agent actually decides to go public the noise would be far more than just United journos.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
This is sounding more and more messy…

Do Utd fans honestly want him if he doesn’t even want to be at Utd? Is that really a wise type of player to sign?
Click to expand...
In a lot of ways this has very little to do with United.

Barca are in deep financial trouble. They want FDJ gone to balance the books. FDJ wants to stay and also refuses the ridiculous pay cut and losing $17 million.

United is not involved in this equation.

Once the impasse between player and club is settled it's possible that FDJ has to leave. At that point United comes into the picture. And at that time he has the draw of ETH and the stature of United and the project at hand etc etc. If he doesn't like United and has no other options he isn't going to become a bum.

The big mistake in evaluating the situation is to think FDJ not wanting to leave has anything to do with Manchester United. Heck, Beckham didn't want to leave United. But he did. Booted. Literally.
 
ElectroManiac said:
You forgot to add Di Maria somewhere in there
Click to expand...

To be fair to Di Maria, yes he wanted to stay in Madrid and probably go PSG but those first couple of months he was great. His attitude changed when his house got burgled and Van Gaal was taking digs at him any chance he could get.
 
Lemoor said:
De Jong has all the power and if he insists on not signing anything they won't even be able to register already completed signings. In what world is that smart business from them?
Click to expand...
Smart business to try to sell him. The first contract they gave him was still idiotic and part of the reason why they’re in the mess they are - and make no bones they ARE in a mess.
 
Becks00 said:
Nah that feels more like it's coming from United. If the agent actually decides to go public the noise would be far more than just United journos.
Click to expand...
Him going public isn't going to solve anything. The best thing they could do is hold tight for as long as possible, which will cause Barcelona problems due to them not being able to register their new recruits.
 
Ole's screen said:
Thats what I said. And that’s why you’re seeing reports from his end (which I believe is Romano’s source) that he wants to stay at Barca.
And I believe Barca will have to pay him some money to leave - partly covered by the increased transfer fees.
However it’s not as clear cut as some suggest. He isn’t being denied any money that’s legally owed to him. His agent was definitely an idiot to sign the new deal without any clauses relating to if Barca decided to sell him.
His leverage is that Barca need to sell him, not that he is legally owed the deferred wages - that’s all I’m trying to say. That’s why he can’t budge from his stance that he’s gonna stay at Barca until he can essentially force Barca to pay him enough that he’s satisfied leaving.

However at the end, I think this mess is more on his agent than Barca. Barca are just doing smart (but definitely scummy) business. Frenkie and his agent are mad they they got played and are using the only leverage they have left - wanting to see out the contract.
Click to expand...

I don’t think we disagree.

My point is simply that a contract isn’t all the leverage they have left, it’s the leverage every player normally possesses and it’s plenty.

FDJ could just shrug his shoulders, refuse to move, and there is nothing Barca can do about it.

If Barca and United both want the move to happen, then they can figure out a way to ensure that FDJ makes more money over the next 4-5 years than if he stayed put. Otherwise why should he agree?
 
People are getting way too invested in this saga. Nobody truly knows what's going on behind the scenes.

Frenkie is at his dream club, beautiful weather, city and he is settled. He didn't have any intention of leaving. I'm seeing posts about Barca being criminal, scumbags etc and that may be the case IF the media reports are true, who knows? Also, nobody is putting a gun to his head forcing him to sign lower wages. He told the club he wants to stay, lower wages is the only work around, Laporta offered and he declined. Hence, he will end up at Manchester United.

I don't believe the player has ever been AGAINST joining United btw, he has them as plan B, knows ten Hag is desperate for him and knows he'll have a place under him. Day 1 of this saga imo he's waiting on economic levers but unfortunately for Frenkie, those levers are being used to sign replacements/strengthen the team, not a solution to his contract.

As a cule, I don't blame the player whatever he does. Stays and milks us? Fair enough. Join United? Goodluck to him. I know it's not about the money as United could and probably will pay him his current wages to compensate for no CL. He's professional and will give his all, no need to worry about another youknowwho or Pogba.
 
sglowrider said:
Why would a football agent burn his bridges with a major club like Barcelona? Frenkie may leave and never go back to Barca but the agent may have other players to sell to Barca. Easier for Frenkie to be the aggressor here.
Click to expand...
Why should Barca try to screw the football agent and his client in the first place.

Raiola (Bless his memory) consistently went to war for his clients if it's in their best interest and that didn't stop the same clubs from approaching him for several other of his clients because they understand it's business and nothing personal.
 
mazhar13 said:
Stone coming in with the less than optimistic viewpoint:
Click to expand...


He might be a bit of a meme for his negativity - whose timing usually signals a deal being complete, but for me this is also a rational viewpoint. Agreeing a fee was never really the problem right, its usually the opposite for us but he still actually has to sign a contract and accept the reality of leaving his dream club when he currently doesn't have to do either. Guess we are lucky they are currently treating him so bad, will ultimately come down to how much he wants to reunite with ETH.
 
Becks00 said:
Why should Barca try to screw the football agent and his client in the first place.

Raiola (Bless his memory) consistently went to war for his clients if it's in their best interest and that didn't stop the same clubs from approaching him for several other of his clients because they understand it's business and nothing personal.
Click to expand...

But there are also quite a few clubs/managers that refused to work with him ever again. Pep, Barca, RM and Fergie.
 
After how Barca have treated him, I'll really think really low of De Jong if he takes a pay cut to stay. Have some self respect, come to United and sue the shit out of Barca for your deferred wages.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.