Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


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Barcelona moving like a mafia family. Just finessing this guy out of millions. Crazy part is Gerard Romero broke it ages ago. Can’t imagine how long this plan has been in motion.

something about seeing crooks in action is fascinating. The level of shamelessness.
 
I hope this is finalised by this end of friday. Arnold gave them a deadline of Friday and if he still doesnt want to come, for whatever reason, then Utd should walk away, otherwise we will look even bigger twats than ever. Im sure if he doesnt come we can find a midfielder or two somewhere else.
 
I hope this is finalised by this end of friday. Arnold gave them a deadline of Friday and if he still doesnt want to come, for whatever reason, then Utd should walk away, otherwise we will look even bigger twats than ever. Im sure if he doesnt come we can find a midfielder or two somewhere else.

Arnold doesn’t feck about. Mark my words.
 
Arnold doesn’t feck about. Mark my words.
Good. Thats how it should be. We shouldnt just keep hanging on for anyone. In future give a run for a player a month at the most. Noone ele seems to drag transfer on like this.
 
Surely if tier 1 Utd sources are reporting about the deferred wages then they are more reliable than the Spanish ones.
Tier 1 United journos are reporting what Utd told them, same as tier 1 Barca journos are reporting what their club told them. If Frenkie's agent isn't a rookie, then he would have links to some journos in Europe or at least dutch ones to report what is best for his client. I don't see how my priority is to stay even after Barcelona has made it clear they want him out is in his clients best interest.

The differed wages thing would be what I expect to be getting pushed out from Frenkie's side and the agent fighting tooth and nail to get the money out by using the media just as Barca are doing. The only reason why I can see this not being the case is that it's what De Jong wants and the differed wages things might not be as big an issue as it's been stated on here.
 
What I don't understand why de Jong use the want to stay at Barca line when he's open to move to United?
Especially now that Barca already said they want to move him.
He's not doing any good with his potential employer with those statements.
 
No I want my money. But the club I’m trying to get it off are clearly as crooked as the letter S. He still has a football career and like a court settlement you get what you can and move on. He’s not getting £17m back and he should know that.
Great m, we are on the same page now, sort of. As you said, it seems that there might be a way to make the move happen. The problem is that FDJ is not stupid and he has money to hire great legal people, but still he chooses the hard way to fight. Why?
There must be a reason. Several sources suggest he can not submit a transfer request, because he will automatically forfeit the deferred salary (17m). If that’s the case (highly likely), what option does he have? I feel you surely miss some details (rumors maybe) about the whole thing.
 
What I don't understand why de Jong use the want to stay at Barca line when he's open to move to United?
Especially now that Barca already said they want to move him.
He's not doing any good with his potential employer with those statements.
 
What I don't understand why de Jong use the want to stay at Barca line when he's open to move to United?
Especially now that Barca already said they want to move him.
He's not doing any good with his potential employer with those statements.
You can say that again
 
I hope this is finalised by this end of friday. Arnold gave them a deadline of Friday and if he still doesnt want to come, for whatever reason, then Utd should walk away, otherwise we will look even bigger twats than ever. Im sure if he doesnt come we can find a midfielder or two somewhere else.

Well Talksport Sources have been good on transfers recently and they touted that deadline so remains to be seen if they have called it
 
Good. Thats how it should be. We shouldnt just keep hanging on for anyone. In future give a run for a player a month at the most. Noone ele seems to drag transfer on like this.

We are dealing with a strange animal though my friend. Barcelona FC. They aren’t like a normal club to do business with believe you me. Look at the smoke and mirrors they have pulled here. I think that’s why both Murtough and Arnold went down to deal with this personally because they needed to let them know ‘we are Manchester United and feck with us as you peril’.

They sent a message and it was received loud and clear. Now we wait.
 
That's not how it was reported at all.
No one reported a firm agreement on that structure like they are with the €75m + €10m now. Ducker himself literally included the phrase "broad agreement" in his article. Ornstein himself was reporting whatever Romano was (i.e. €65m + €20m) and even stated that the structure & payments needed to be negotiated despite an agreement on the total value. Romano himself didn't even state that there was a full agreement on that structure as they were still discussing the add-ons. If the €20m couldn't be agreed on, then that changes the whole deal, which is what we saw happen here.

When I look at this from your perspective, here's what could have happened: we agreed on the total value with Barcelona, and Barcelona were also okay with the base fee despite not fully agreeing to it. That base fee was contingent on how the add-ons would be paid out and structured. Barcelona probably didn't like how the €20m was getting structured; maybe they wanted more of that to be easily met; maybe they wanted more of that amount up front sooner depending on the objectives. Whatever the case, United decided to add €10m to the overall structure, but that extra amount may be deferred to future years instead of being paid up front. We don't know the exact structure, unfortunately.

In short, if we did have a full agreement on the whole fee and structure, then we would never have seen today's report come out.
 
Great m, we are on the same page now, sort of. As you said, it seems that there might be a way to make the move happen. The problem is that FDJ is not stupid and he has money to hire great legal people, but still he chooses the hard way to fight. Why?
There must be a reason. Several sources suggest he can not submit a transfer request, because he will automatically forfeit the deferred salary (17m). If that’s the case (highly likely), what option does he have? I feel you surely miss some details (rumors maybe) about the whole thing.

If he hands in a request he won’t get his bonuses but he would still be entitled to what he is owned for those two years. However like I said for his career he should really think about arrange a good deal.

He’s choosing the hard way to fight because he probably believes he can do a Gareth Bale and work his way back into the team. Unfortunately that isn’t going to happen for him. What he should be doing is calculating how much of what he is owed they can give him upfront now and how much he’ll likely get as a signing on fee for joining United. I’m sure the loss will be a lot less than 17m.

However agents always have hidden fees in these stuff and I’m guessing that’s what is holding this up. His agent wants his money. (Guessing)
 
Why are we not hearing anything about the deferred wages from the likes of Romano and the spanish outlets. The best Romano has said is that he isn't taking a paycut and I do believe Romano is getting his info from Frenkie's agent or people close to him.

Surely if he intends to move should Barca pay the deferred wages or they come to some kind of agreement, would it not be in his best interest to be briefing along the lines of I need my money rather than staying at Barca is my priority.

Probably because Romano is a Barca mouthpiece and i don't think Barca are going to brief him "Frankie won't leave till we pay him that money we owe" it's going to make him the enemy by saying "we don't want him to go, but need him to go to sign more players, and he's refusing, so we can't sign more players because of him"
 
I miss the days of when you knew there was a signing, was when you saw him holding a club scarf above his head in the paper or on the news.

Now you got all this social media shite, where muppets hang on to every single word of any Tom, Dick and Harry on Twitter/YouTube/TikTok. And to make shit worse, they get assigned stupid arbitrary "tiers" based on how lucky they are, (or if they state the obvious; ala: Romano", all in the sake of trying to gather a social media celebrity following. I work with statistics (I have been a professional poker player for 10+ years), and let me tell you, sample size is everything. Some of you are putting all your stock in a person who has gotten maybe one? two? three? things right? Come on. That's ridiculous. You're literally clinging on to any scrap thrown your way in pure desperation.

I don't know what's more embarrassing: The clowns on social media? Or the clowns that buy into it?
 
To be fair if i lived in Barca for 3 years, i'd probably would not want to relocate my family to Manchester. Hell everytime iv'e been to Barca for a holiday iv'e never wanted to come back.
 
Probably because Romano is a Barca mouthpiece and i don't think Barca are going to brief him "Frankie won't leave till we pay him that money we owe" it's going to make him the enemy by saying "we don't want him to go, but need him to go to sign more players, and he's refusing, so we can't sign more players because of him"
I think you mean Gerard Romero. Fabrizio Romano has no affiliation with Barcelona
 
Probably because Romano is a Barca mouthpiece and i don't think Barca are going to brief him "Frankie won't leave till we pay him that money we owe" it's going to make him the enemy by saying "we don't want him to go, but need him to go to sign more players, and he's refusing, so we can't sign more players because of him"
Romano isn't a Barca mouthpiece that would be Romero.
 
If he hands in a request he won’t get his bonuses but he would still be entitled to what he is owned for those two years. However like I said for his career he should really think about arrange a good deal.

He’s choosing the hard way to fight because he probably believes he can do a Gareth Bale and work his way back into the team. Unfortunately that isn’t going to happen for him. What he should be doing is calculating how much of what he is owed they can give him upfront now and how much he’ll likely get as a signing on fee for joining United. I’m sure the loss will be a lot less than 17m.

However agents always have hidden fees in these stuff and I’m guessing that’s what is holding this up. His agent wants his money. (Guessing)
Salary deferring was done by signing a new contract during the pandemic and the deferred amount are paid over four years with his regular salary starting this financial year. He therefore earned 3m and 6m in last two years.
I am tired to explain everything. Just google it,buddy.
Btw, the latest source suggests Barca offers 1/5 of 17m to him to make the move and forfeit the rest.
 
What I don't understand why de Jong use the want to stay at Barca line when he's open to move to United?
Especially now that Barca already said they want to move him.
He's not doing any good with his potential employer with those statements.

We don't know what he's said, i don't think he's said anything publically apart from the "i'm happy at Barca" line at the international pressers. There is some obvious game afoot, i don't think we would spend 2 months chasing a player who has given an indication he doesnt want to come. We've heard many different things, he's open to a move, he wants his money owned, he doesn't want to leave, he's been convinced to move by Ten Haag... I personally think he's open to coming, but he obviously does not want to lose out on almost 2 years of money, which is why Barca are rolling out the line of "he doesn't want to leave and we can't sign players till he does"
 
All this stuff about De Jong being dragged out of Barcelona against his will is total nonsense. They owe him 17m euros in deferred payments from lockdown. Yes, they asked their players to hang around for free!!

Not only do they owe him a years salary, they have asked him to take a pay cut, because they cannot afford to pay him what was agreed in his contract.

It's a bit like going into a Lamborghini show room and selecting a car, then when the dealer asks for payment, Laporta just says, "Oh no, we're not paying you money for the car. This car wants to come home with us!."

If FDJ really wanted to stay, he would accept the drop in salary and write off the 17m that it owed to him.

He aint doing that. Not ever.

So it's welcome to Manchester United. We might not be in sunny Spain, but at least you'll get paid and treated with a modicum of respect.

De Jong is worth the battle. He's absolute quality. He'll make spoofers like Pogba look like Carlton Palmer.

Jeppers to arrive in 5..4..3..2…
 
We don't know what he's said, i don't think he's said anything publically apart from the "i'm happy at Barca" line at the international pressers. There is some obvious game afoot, i don't think we would spend 2 months chasing a player who has given an indication he doesnt want to come. We've heard many different things, he's open to a move, he wants his money owned, he doesn't want to leave, he's been convinced to move by Ten Haag... I personally think he's open to coming, but he obviously does not want to lose out on almost 2 years of money, which is why Barca are rolling out the line of "he doesn't want to leave and we can't sign players till he does"
Arnold and Murtough are not stupid first and foremost. They did it because it’s possible and will be important for us. It doesn’t mean they will wait forever.
it’s time to just witness how low Barca can be. Very entertaining really.
 
Why are we not hearing anything about the deferred wages from the likes of Romano and the spanish outlets. The best Romano has said is that he isn't taking a paycut and I do believe Romano is getting his info from Frenkie's agent or people close to him.

Surely if he intends to move should Barca pay the deferred wages or they come to some kind of agreement, would it not be in his best interest to be briefing along the lines of I need my money rather than staying at Barca is my priority.
I think what's happening here is that the Barca journos have been told by the club that the player doesn't want to leave.

And the reliable United journos are being told that the player is in a stand off with Barca over the £17m owed to him.

The difference is that the Barcelona journos are not telling the full story imo, because publishing reports about Barcelona unwilling to pay the player what he's owed, isn't going to look good. So they're consistently reporting about the player unwilling to leave.

Romano is also likely getting fed the same info from Barcelona’s side.
 
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I think what's happening here is that the Barca journos have been told by the club that the player doesn't want to leave.

And the reliable United journos are being told that the player is in a stand off with Barca over the £17m owed to him.

The difference is that the Barcelona journos are not telling the full story imo, because reporting about Barcelona unwilling to pay the player what he's owed, isn't going to look good. So they're consistently reporting about the player unwilling to leave.

Romano is also likely getting fed the same info from Barcelona’s side.
Make sense.
 
No one reported a firm agreement on that structure like they are with the €75m + €10m now. Ducker himself literally included the phrase "broad agreement" in his article. Ornstein himself was reporting whatever Romano was (i.e. €65m + €20m) and even stated that the structure & payments needed to be negotiated despite an agreement on the total value. Romano himself didn't even state that there was a full agreement on that structure as they were still discussing the add-ons. If the €20m couldn't be agreed on, then that changes the whole deal, which is what we saw happen here.

When I look at this from your perspective, here's what could have happened: we agreed on the total value with Barcelona, and Barcelona were also okay with the base fee despite not fully agreeing to it. That base fee was contingent on how the add-ons would be paid out and structured. Barcelona probably didn't like how the €20m was getting structured; maybe they wanted more of that to be easily met; maybe they wanted more of that amount up front sooner depending on the objectives. Whatever the case, United decided to add €10m to the overall structure, but that extra amount may be deferred to future years instead of being paid up front. We don't know the exact structure, unfortunately.

In short, if we did have a full agreement on the whole fee and structure, then we would never have seen today's report come out.

I remember that they were all practically in agreement that the overall fee was agreed at €85m, but many including Romano I believe, said the fixed aspect was agreed also at €65m. They were saying the the structure of the €20m add ons was still to be agreed.

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong. There's no way I'm trawling back through the thread to find out anyway :lol:
 
We don't know what he's said, i don't think he's said anything publically apart from the "i'm happy at Barca" line at the international pressers. There is some obvious game afoot, i don't think we would spend 2 months chasing a player who has given an indication he doesnt want to come. We've heard many different things, he's open to a move, he wants his money owned, he doesn't want to leave, he's been convinced to move by Ten Haag... I personally think he's open to coming, but he obviously does not want to lose out on almost 2 years of money, which is why Barca are rolling out the line of "he doesn't want to leave and we can't sign players till he does"
The whole deferred wages thing as come exclusively from Utd and English based reporters, which makes me believe it's the club brief to them. I see how it's in the interest of the club to brief this but I don't believe is what is holding the transfer.

I think De Jong is the one holding up this deal and whenever he comes to terms with the fact that he is done at Barca, then this whole differed wages thing would be solved extremely fast or might not even be mentioned at all and yet the move will happen.

I also think Utd believe when De Jong comes to this realisation he would have no problem joining the club and it's why they are persisting.
 
I think what's happening here is that the Barca journos have been told by the club that the player doesn't want to leave.

And the reliable United journos are being told that the player is in a stand off with Barca over the £17m owed to him.

The difference is that the Barcelona journos are not telling the full story imo, because publishing reports about Barcelona unwilling to pay the player what he's owed, isn't going to look good. So they're consistently reporting about the player unwilling to leave.

Romano is also likely getting fed the same info from Barcelona’s side.
But then Frenkie's agent shouldn't be silent and letting Utd be the one putting out the full story. He should be waging his own media campaign against Barcelona if De Jong has accepted to move should he be paid.
 
But then Frenkie's agent shouldn't be silent and letting Utd be the one putting out the full story. He should be waging his own media campaign against Barcelona if De Jong has accepted to move should he be paid.
No one knows if there is something else in the contract signed during the pandemic to defer the salary. Mostly likely there is something so that it is not the best strategy.
 
He’s choosing the hard way to fight because he probably believes he can do a Gareth Bale and work his way back into the team. Unfortunately that isn’t going to happen for him. What he should be doing is calculating how much of what he is owed they can give him upfront now and how much he’ll likely get as a signing on fee for joining United. I’m sure the loss will be a lot less than 17m.

It seems they are saying they don't owe him anything, what seems most logical and seems to be coming out is that Frenkie agreed to delay the payment of these deferred wages by adding them to his contracted salary later in to the contract. Thus if his wage was 20m before, it would be 24, this year, 28, etc. Barca are saying he agreed to a pay deal where his payments were changed, so legally they owe him nothing. Which if his agents did put that in his contract they are morons
 
But then Frenkie's agent shouldn't be silent and letting Utd be the one putting out the full story. He should be waging his own media campaign against Barcelona if De Jong has accepted to move should he be paid.

I’m starting to think he doesn’t have the best representation to be honest. The fact that he allowed his most marketable player to sign a new contract with such a low pay for the first couple of years without guarantees that he’d be owed a big payout in case Barca try to sell him is very sketch. Now he’s trying to save his own reputation by playing an unwinnable game by refusing to leave to get some money but it sounds like Frenkie will definitely have to let some of that money go.
 
But then Frenkie's agent shouldn't be silent and letting Utd be the one putting out the full story. He should be waging his own media campaign against Barcelona if De Jong has accepted to move should he be paid.
I don't believe it's sensible move for Ali Dursun to wage a campaign against Barca via the media. And from what's been reported, Ali Dursun and Barcelona’s working relationship is broken. The agent in question is on good terms with United from what's reported.

This is a mess created by Barcelona.
 
But then Frenkie's agent shouldn't be silent and letting Utd be the one putting out the full story. He should be waging his own media campaign against Barcelona if De Jong has accepted to move should he be paid.
Why would he do that?
 
Why would he do that?
The question is if he legally is owed those wages or not. If he was this wouldn’t even be happening. Sounds like the agent and Frenkie agreed to take a big pay cut for the first half of his contract and backloaded a ton of wages with a loyalty bonus towards the end. They are genuine idiots if that’s the case and should have always anticipated that Barca could sell him midway through the contract to avoid paying the large salary.
 
Can anybody hazard a guess as to why we have paid them more money than agreed if they're not even giving it to him? I almost believed the tweets saying Murtough is a tough negotiator and keen to change the perception of us being pushovers.

This is our problem. We make ourselves look desperate and don't play the game. We make it obvious from the get go that we have no other options. It doesn't help when our fans are crawling all over social media putting pressure on to sign players and twerking for different players. I bet the selling clubs love dealing with us.

I would expect United to only offer something like half of what Barca owe De Jong.

Barca, being broke, are probably trying to offer him a fraction of what they owe him and only a portion of the portion that United is covering.
 
I’m starting to think he doesn’t have the best representation to be honest. The fact that he allowed his most marketable player to sign a new contract with such a low pay for the first couple of years without guarantees that he’d be owed a big payout in case Barca try to sell him is very sketch. Now he’s trying to save his own reputation by playing an unwinnable game by refusing to leave to get some money but it sounds like Frenkie will definitely have to let some of that money go.

Why should he let any of the money go?

FDJ has all the power in this situation. The transfer literally cannot happen without his assent and Xavi isn’t going to freeze him out of the team or something if he doesnt move.

If his agent has any clue whatsoever, he has told everybody involved that the only way he’ll consider a move is if Barca pays every cent of his deferred wages and United also gives him a pay raise to compensate him for moving away from his dream club. Anything else, don’t even bother calling, my client is happy to stay.
 
Why would he do that?
The question is if he legally is owed those wages or not. If he was this wouldn’t even be happening. Sounds like the agent and Frenkie agreed to take a big pay cut for the first half of his contract and backloaded a ton of wages with a loyalty bonus towards the end. They are genuine idiots if that’s the case and should have always anticipated that Barca could sell him midway through the contract to avoid paying the large salary.
This.

And if what @Ole's screen described turns out to be the case, I don't see how it's not in Ali Dursun and Frenkie's best interest to fight this out in public if they have decided to move.
 
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