Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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The midfield is the absolute priority position, what needs to be addressed, so we simply cannot waste any more time on this guy.

He doesn't want to leave, so let's finally move on.
 
PeteReDevil said:
That'd be a weird response to what the editor makes possible. If users aren't allowed to utilize it to its fullest, then why not turn some of the features off or sanitize the output?
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Not to derail, but the font we use on here is the one we use. All the threads are in this font. No need to turn anything off because we hope/assume that people will use the standard default font and text size.

It wouldn't be a weird response to give a warning, as I've already asked people not to use other fonts and in any case, they know. They're not new members.
 
Joseunited said:
Panic merchants out in force.why would 2 of our senior figures be in Spain sorting out a transfer if we didn't think we could get him?
He's coming.
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That's what I keep telling myself, however there is anxiety while the reliable journos stay quiet
 
M Bison said:
its weird because surely if anyone ETH could pick up the phone to FDJ and he would just say one way or another, if it was a no we would have moved on but the fact we're still pursuing it surely indicates that the door is ajar? Is it just media noise to get Barca to pay the backpay?
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Yeah my thoughts too
 
Brophs said:
He renegotiated the original deal and took a wage deferral. In what form exactly is still unknown, despite what the below post says. I’ve already written a long ish boring post on this point but if FDJ’s agent and his lawyers allowed him to sign an agreement which meant that he’d only be paid the deferred wages if he saw out his entire deal, at a time when Barca needed money and he was a saleable asset and whose sale under this purported agreement would release them from massive historical wage obligations to the player, then they’re utterly incompetent. It’s quite literally the first question a legal person would ask.
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I can't imagine there not being a concrete clause in his renegotiated deal for what would happen in the event of a sale. That's precisely what his agent/lawyer is there to do.
 
Woziak said:
They are not paying him his money, they don’t have it and want us to pay at least half of it is probably nearer to the truth.
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The wage deferrals were done to ensure, that Barca was able to comply with the la liga salary limit. This wouldn't work, if these deferrals would have been handled just like a loan from the player to the club, because they would have still counted to the salary limit even if Barca would have failed to pay them. The players agreed to reduce the salary of the current year and in return Barcelona agreed to increase their salary for the rest of the duration of the contract (adjusted with 2-3% interest p.a.) in hopes, that it would be easier to comply with the la liga salary limit in the future. The problem for Frenkie seems to be now, that he already gave up money, but would only get the benefits if he continues to stay with Barca. Yet if he leaves, unless there are additional provisions in the deferral agreement (like with Umtiti), Barca doesn't owe him anything.

Barca has also some unpaid wages, but there is nothing controversial about this. These get paid regardless of the players staying or leaving.
 
AjaxCunian said:
What was the point of Arnold/Murthough going to Barcelona?
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Take your pick…

Press Opportunity.

Arnold probably fancied a pint with the locals (‘lad’, ‘normal guy’ etc).

To tell FDJ something about Disneyland.

Went to check out the Barca megastore for tips on branding.

Got lost and don’t even know that Barcelona is a football club.
 
Is the deal just too tricky to be made? The money owed is one thing but a massive pay cut going forward is another. Add in the sporting reasons and I wonder if it’s just too much. I don’t believe the club would have gone this far without assurances but at the same time maybe they are pushing harder than the assurance they did get warrants
 
Brophs said:
He renegotiated the original deal and took a wage deferral. In what form exactly is still unknown, despite what the below post says. I’ve already written a long ish boring post on this point but if FDJ’s agent and his lawyers allowed him to sign an agreement which meant that he’d only be paid the deferred wages if he saw out his entire deal, at a time when Barca needed money and he was a saleable asset and whose sale under this purported agreement would release them from massive historical wage obligations to the player, then they’re utterly incompetent. It’s quite literally the first question a legal person would ask.
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We know his wage about 2/3m last year and the one before, and will jump to 19m this season and about 28m after that. This isn’t an I.o.u - it has to be a legal document agreed by both parties, so that at the end of his contracted period he has received the amount of remuneration originally offered. I agree his agent should have seen a scenario like this where they push him out to avoid paying but I cannot see how else this would be structured. Surely if he transfers without coming to a settlement with Barca he loses his claim to that money by breaking the contract. And it’s legal for Barca to act in this way because he has been paid 2/3m for his services and agreed to lower his wage in the first place. They have screwed him good and proper.
 
Rob Dawson putting it out there that United are absolutely convinced that Frenkie wants to come. Other bits he's said is thar Martinez is imminent and that Eriksen has had the (thorough) medical.
 
We shall find out sooner or later what's going on. I still think this is going to come to a positive outcome, unless de Jong does take the pay cut and slash his wages to barely anything. Really don't see that happening though
 
alexanderplatz said:
Is the deal just too tricky to be made? The money owed is one thing but a massive pay cut going forward is another. Add in the sporting reasons and I wonder if it’s just too much. I don’t believe the club would have gone this far without assurances but at the same time maybe they are pushing harder than the assurance they did get warrants
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I don't think it makes any odds really. The impasse is between Barcelona and De Jong. Barca can't keep him unless they pay him what he's owed and honour his promised future wages. I can't see them doing the latter as they won't be able to register other players. Agreeing a compromise on what they already owe him and selling him is the best option for both parties.
 
LordSpud said:
Rob Dawson putting it out there that United are absolutely convinced that Frenkie wants to come. Other bits he's said is thar Martinez is imminent and that Eriksen has had the (thorough) medical.
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When did he say this? I've not read the reports to be fair
 
Plant0x84 said:
We know his wage about 2/3m last year and the one before, and will jump to 19m this season and about 28m after that. This isn’t an I.o.u - it has to be a legal document agreed by both parties, so that at the end of his contracted period he has received the amount of remuneration originally offered. I agree his agent should have seen a scenario like this where they push him out to avoid paying but I cannot see how else this would be structured. Surely if he transfers without coming to a settlement with Barca he loses his claim to that money by breaking the contract. And it’s legal for Barca to act in this way because he has been paid 2/3m for his services and agreed to lower his wage in the first place. They have screwed him good and proper.
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I think you’re making the mistake of assuming he signed a new employment contract rather than some sort of ancillary contract or agreement which relates to the deferred monies and their treatment. It would be quite easy to word and structure.
 
So hopefully this is all winding up now one way or another, we need to start preparing for plan B and not waste time
 
So the consensus is what? De Jong is saying he's not leaving nor taking a pay cut so to force Barca to pay him him the deferred wages at which point he'll sign for us?

Can't say I really understand that train of thought tbh
 
Brophs said:
I don't think it makes any odds really. The impasse is between Barcelona and De Jong. Barca can't keep him unless they pay him what he's owed and honour his promised future wages. I can't see them doing the latter as they won't be able to register other players. Agreeing a compromise on what they already owe him and selling him is the best option for both parties.
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There has been a lot of talk of the add ons being continually negotiated. Maybe it's a complicated tax debate where Barca are hoping for us to pay Frenkies deferred wages via the add ons.

I'm sure they don't want to pay it out of the initial fee as they need the cash. Something around this matter has to be where it is all dragging out.
 
They need to sell FDJ no?

Else how are Barca buying Raphinha and Lewandowski, paying their probably rather high wages, while being cash strapped?

They're splashing on Raphinha, but can't pay FDJ his 17 mil? Make it make sense.
 
UnitedFire said:
There has been a lot of talk of the add ons being continually negotiated. Maybe it's a complicated tax debate where Barca are hoping for us to pay Frenkies deferred wages via the add ons.

I'm sure they don't want to pay it out of the initial fee as they need the cash. Something around this matter has to be where it is all dragging out.
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That's a good point. No doubt that shower want us to foot the bill.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if we start ramping up interest on other players from next week. With Fdj's agreement that that might push Barcelona to pay up.
 
Brophs said:
I think you’re making the mistake of assuming he signed a new employment contract rather than some sort of ancillary contract or agreement which relates to the deferred monies and their treatment. It would be quite easy to word and structure.
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Possibly, but in that case surely he would have some claim to that money after all and it doesn’t seem like he does, hence his stance on the transfer.
 
Arnold and Murtough went over and sorted the deal in terms of an agreement with Barca. I’d also imagine that they have had plenty of discussions with Frenkie’s agent - especially as he was at Carrington last week. Im sure that they have an agreement in principal with Frenkie and his agent. However, they have to have a Mexican standoff with Barca over owed monies. That’s out of our control. At some point this impasse will get resolved and things will move on.

It must be a real kick in the teeth for FDJ though as Barca are bleating poverty yet trying to sign everyone and his dog!

This will drag on for a few more days yet.
 
Withnail said:
That's a good point. No doubt that shower want us to foot the bill.
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To be honest it makes sense. Barca would have been paying over the rest of his contract so they effectively want us to transfer this agreement, but clearly we aren't going to sign up to that as just an extra add on so instead it's a case of Man Utd agreeing the add ons to be structured in such a way where an element is guaranteed or some other claw back mechanism...

There may even be some negotiation with this, e.g. Can we get Frenkie to agree to add ons based on appearances, but I'm sure he'll say why should I accept that risk of the appearances not happening when it's guaranteed at Barca regardless.

It all just sounds messy
 
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