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Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
- Thread starter davidmichael
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"How is He Who Cannot Be Named getting along with reducing his wage demands? Would he like to come to Chelsea?"
No, we all know I'm going to click and read every last post anyway. That's the way the cookie crumbles when you're a muppet.
Time to move on as far as I‘m concerned. Frenkie can stay and force them to pay him his wages.
I wonder if Martinez is part of a plan B. He played a lot in midfield at Ajax, besides as a cb.
I wonder if Martinez is part of a plan B. He played a lot in midfield at Ajax, besides as a cb.
If you announce to the world you are implementing your plan B then Frenkie will lose faith in ETH in wanting to bring him over -- as to be his 'conductor.' Won't show much confidence in Frenkie then. You need to show to Frenkie that you want to fight for him to get him to OT -- if Frenkie is to want to move clubs.
Why would chelsea even want him? They have enough midfielders in the current squad and other issues to sort out. 1 or 2 wingbacks for James or may be Chilwell backup since Azpi and Alonso might leave, 1 or may be even 2 CB for Rudiger and Christensen replacement, and two forwards.
De Jong is just a long waiting game now to wait when the fecker Barcelona can give their promise to pay what they owed to De Jong. Hopefully we can finalise this ASAP.
De Jong is just a long waiting game now to wait when the fecker Barcelona can give their promise to pay what they owed to De Jong. Hopefully we can finalise this ASAP.
So, do we still have a chance, or are we just being used?
If I understand this correctly, FdJ agreed to defer his wages to later in his contract. Barca are now saying there will be no later because they are going to sell him, therefore they will never have to pay the deferred wages (but either we should or FDJ should agree to forgo it). And if FdJ and MUFC do not agree to this proposition then they won't sell him. But they have to sell him because they are broke and they don't need him anyway and if they don't sell him they will have to pay the wages anyway. So they are bluffing and it's just a question of time. They can't win this unless we or FdJ folds, and as long as we remain willing buyers and he wants to come we are both in a strong place.
So the last thing we should do is pull out. We should also refuse to pay his deferred wages and he should refuse to forgo them. Barca will logically have to sell him in the end. But it might take to the last day of the window.
So the last thing we should do is pull out. We should also refuse to pay his deferred wages and he should refuse to forgo them. Barca will logically have to sell him in the end. But it might take to the last day of the window.
This deferred wages business, wouldn't they have had to sign a contract or had it in writing about what 'deferred' exactly means? Haven't they had players, who have left in this period between the pandemic and 'deferred' wages?
I don't buy a 'we'll give you the rest next year after you agree in conversation' or something
I don't buy a 'we'll give you the rest next year after you agree in conversation' or something
So the players "feelings" have a higher meaning than the club's success? Come on, I mean, I understand your point but a) if he isn't smart enough to understand, that this is a business at the end of the day, then he doesn't even need to come and b) I think it is pretty easy to communicate things to an individual. If he really wants to come, he should be able to keep that little secret don't you think?
The clubs comes first and to be honest, a player who doesn't submit to that, shouldn't even be considered. We've got more than enough drama lately, the club should be as pragmatic as it gets for a while until there is some room to maneuver again and we can maybe afford some sentiments. You think, Bayern would risk their own goals to make a player happy? Or Liverpool? Do you think, Fergie would have cared about something like that? I am sure you don't - so lets not make stuff up just for arguments sake.
Never been more confident about a player joining. He'll be here. Dits just a matter of patience.
Part of this 'feelings' of being 'wanted' is part of man-management -- and especially in Frenkie's case where he may have to give up millions if he wants his move to United as a compromise to his deferred salary equation. Sure, he can stand his ground insist legally that he is owed the money from Barca. But that would drag things out.
If he feels more wanted at Uited and think playing for ETH is a much better proposition, he might just do that.
Players will run through brick walls for the managers because of these 'feelings'. Players arent robots. Half the job of a manager is to motivate them or his employees and emotions play a huge part of motivation.
It does feel inevitable as staying at Barca just doesn’t sounds like a feasible option for him if they need him to reduce his wage again.
With that being said, this genuinely feels as if this won’t get sorted until late July though. I think there will be a lot of bluffing from all camps before someone eventually caves in.
He will just need to live off the wife from now onwards.
There is no decent plan B possible I fear.
All there is left is slightly above average midfielders available like Tielemans, Neves. Maybe James Ward Prowse. I'd cry.
Those are all Plans B. That's the problem.
There is a huge drop-off from FdJ to any one of those lot. So does ETH and the team stick or fold? It's easy for us to bitch and suddenly develop 20/20 hindsight experts as many have already done.
But it's a tough decision, especially for a position/role that's critical to ETH's philosophy.
Fyi. I would prefer Tielemanns to the other two though.
I think if we get this deal done he'll sign for us.
I'm encouraged by the knowledge there's no other club in the Premier League who could negotiate a deal like this with Barcelona. We're still the biggest and best draw in world football.
I don't find the deal tiring at all. Our relentless focus on getting his signature tell me this truly is the start of a new era at United.
I'm encouraged by the knowledge there's no other club in the Premier League who could negotiate a deal like this with Barcelona. We're still the biggest and best draw in world football.
I don't find the deal tiring at all. Our relentless focus on getting his signature tell me this truly is the start of a new era at United.
Those are plan 0's, well they are better than McTominay I guess. But we arent going anywhere with them.
It's difficult, I guess Tielemans wouldnt cost too much and then find another defensive midfielder.
But in all honesty, this Frenkie opportunity would be a boost, ETH and Murthough would have had to planned within a world where Frenkie de Jong isnt available anyway. We should have no business signing him, the only reason is Barca's dire financial situation and then having top talents in Pedri/Gavi, and the Ten Hag connection.
what do folks think about the possibility that this has become so bogged down because barca are essentially negotiating add-ons that are virtually impossible to fail and that part of the deal is how they will agree to pay out FDJ?
So essentially, the fixed fee was so easy because all barca care about is the add-ons pay out FDJ. We don't want to pay their gambling debts so we aren't just guaranteeing the addons and that is literally where the stalemate is. It's nothing to do with FDJ's love of Barca, nothing to do with Laporta acting like a gambling addict, its ALL related to how "guaranteed" the add-ons are and then barca can agree a contract with FDJ to pay out owing wages over time.
That just seems so much more reasonable right? If FDJ was trying to not leave Barca, the fecker would do an Instagram or something and say "whilst i'm flattered by the interest, Laporta has stated the reality of the situation, I will be playing for Barca next season". If the deal was collapsing because Barca pulled out, we'd be briefing the Tier 1-2's. It all seems to be based on how and who pays FDJ's owed wages.
So essentially, the fixed fee was so easy because all barca care about is the add-ons pay out FDJ. We don't want to pay their gambling debts so we aren't just guaranteeing the addons and that is literally where the stalemate is. It's nothing to do with FDJ's love of Barca, nothing to do with Laporta acting like a gambling addict, its ALL related to how "guaranteed" the add-ons are and then barca can agree a contract with FDJ to pay out owing wages over time.
That just seems so much more reasonable right? If FDJ was trying to not leave Barca, the fecker would do an Instagram or something and say "whilst i'm flattered by the interest, Laporta has stated the reality of the situation, I will be playing for Barca next season". If the deal was collapsing because Barca pulled out, we'd be briefing the Tier 1-2's. It all seems to be based on how and who pays FDJ's owed wages.
I think it’s more likely to be about his missing wages. It’s not a thing clubs normally have to account for/negotiate when buying players.
FDJ wants the missing money, Barca can’t/won’t pay them & we’re left at the side pretty helpless until they reach an agreement (we’re certainly not going to pay them).
It’ll get resolved whenever the point in time comes that Barca actually need to get him off their books. When some sort of player registration deadline, accounting deadline or payment to another club deadline (Bayern) looms, I think it’ll be sorted. Until then, Barca are just going to try to play hardball with FDJ about the wage issue.
If he's owed 17m, surely he could just agree to take a club assest that's worth about 17m to make up for it.
Busquets is probably worth that much about now, so they should just let him take Busquets as collateral. He can have him as a driver, a chef, a PA or a midfield partner. Whatever he wants.
Busquets is probably worth that much about now, so they should just let him take Busquets as collateral. He can have him as a driver, a chef, a PA or a midfield partner. Whatever he wants.
I think that is actually the crux of it. No one (Tier 1-2) has said we've agreed the complete add-ons package, just the base/fixed fee. I remember in the early days that there was a lot of chat about the add-ons needing to be easy for barca because "they have to show guaranteed money coming in". I think barca are looking at the add-ons as the way to pay FDJ out. We (club) obviously realise that's the case and hence there is a stalemate around the deal. Barca want the add-ons to trigger no matter the situation and MUFC have realised the addons are likely a round about way of getting us to foot the bill.
Put it this way, this seems to be a more likely explaination because at the moment nothing is making much sense. If FDJ is not leaving because he wants to get paid, Barca are going to announce an agreement with MUFC because he won't take a new wage cut and we don't want to pay the outstanding wages (via add-ons) because we would then essentially pay Barca's gambling debts....something has to give, because there is no sense in that sentence.
Just no
It’s a nightmare position for the player really. Walk away from your dream club, that have royally fecked you over, and with that walk away from 17m euros and feel completely swindled. Or, tell em feck it, I’m staying and try to call their bluff to either stay and get paid what you are owed, else force them to agree a settlement for the 17m in owed ages that were to be included in your next 4 years of wage.
FDJ at this point needs to either stay, and tell em feck off and pay me, else wait them out. Barca are clearly playing the same game back, pretending they are desperate to keep him but only if he completely writes off tens of millions.
Those saying walk away are just off their tits at this point, FDJ will leave, I’m so certain of that, and if we walk away we’ll leave it open to a bunch of clubs to get him in a few weeks. Why would we do that? We just wait it out, simple as that.
FDJ at this point needs to either stay, and tell em feck off and pay me, else wait them out. Barca are clearly playing the same game back, pretending they are desperate to keep him but only if he completely writes off tens of millions.
Those saying walk away are just off their tits at this point, FDJ will leave, I’m so certain of that, and if we walk away we’ll leave it open to a bunch of clubs to get him in a few weeks. Why would we do that? We just wait it out, simple as that.
If Barcelona are in the legal position to do this, then FdJ need to have serious word with his agent and legal team. They are f***ed badly, if true.
https://theathletic.com/3409041/2022/07/09/frenkie-de-jong-barcelona/
This article recaps the whole saga, this deal would probably happen after Barca pull their second lever, but there would still be the deffered wage issue to work around.
The article is free
This article recaps the whole saga, this deal would probably happen after Barca pull their second lever, but there would still be the deffered wage issue to work around.
The article is free
I think the poster has it bang on. FDJ signed a new deal, in confidence that he’d spend at least the next 5 years at Barça, it meant he received just 57k /week for year 1 of the contract, 114k /week for year 2 (last season) and then back to his regular wage (250k /week) + the money “owed” for years 3-7.
Barça are well aware that they don’t need to pay him jack shit now if he goes to a new club due to how they renegotiated that contract, he has been paid in full so far according to the terms of his deal.
Was it naive of FDJ and his agent? Absolutely, they trusted the club.
De Jong is also well aware of this and is also aware that they simply cannot keep him on with the wages he is now due, hence why all reports are of him having zero intention of renegotiating anything.
So both are playing a waiting game, my guess is that Barça end up “winning” by paying him less than 50% of the 17m they owe him.
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Good watch if you want to know the current wage situation.
FdJ bringing Busquets home to the missus like he's a new pet he got to guard the house or somethingAt what point do we look away from De Jong towards other targets if only to put pressure on Barca? It seems like the pressure is all on Barca yet they’re the club who are making moves to apply pressure when it really should be the other way around.
Who else can they sell? If it truly is Ten Hag v Barca for De Jong then set a deadline and if it goes past that deadline our bid cuts by a quarter and goes down closer it gets to deadline day. It’s not as if another club can jump in if it is Ten Hag v Barca.
Who else can they sell? If it truly is Ten Hag v Barca for De Jong then set a deadline and if it goes past that deadline our bid cuts by a quarter and goes down closer it gets to deadline day. It’s not as if another club can jump in if it is Ten Hag v Barca.
Morning muppets, I wonder what size today will be?!!
I don’t think it’d pressure Barça at all, it’s De Jong, they will find another buyer.
But what if it is true that De Jong will ignore other clubs such as Chelsea for Ten Hag? City and Liverpool aren’t interested, Bayern are after De Ligt. Would he leave for a PSG? I’m actually struggling to think who else would be able to get him.
I’m sure there are clubs interested, we are interested. If it’s an audience of two for De Jong then we really should be cuter about this
If we walk away as you suggest, then it won’t be a choice of Chelsea or Ten Hag, it’ll be Chelsea or PSG, or City etc.
The crunch now is Barça and De Jong agreeing on the money he is owed from the past two seasons, walking away won’t change that. In the end it’ll be about who blinks first out of Barça or De Jong. Both are clearly bluffing the other, pretending they are desperate to stay or keep, when clearly they aren’t. It’s a poker game.
The Barcelona offer to Frenkie de Jong is an insult to both the player and the game
It takes a degree of audacity to be truly terrible and there can be a point at which – regardless of what you may think of the ethics of whatever somebody has done – it can be difficult not to stand back and admire the chutzpah.
Barcelona, as we all already know, are an absolute financial mess. One of the biggest in the entire history of the game. In debt to the tune of £1.2bn, they’ve already lost their most iconic player of all time, and now they’ve had to take out the sporting equivalent of an equity release mortgage, but this club – an organisation without any apparent self-awareness – now seems intent, in its desperation to get back to what it assumes to be its ‘rightful’ place, on trashing its own reputation.
Transfer reporter Jacque Talbot reported that Barcelona have only offered to pay him £3.5m of what he is owed as severance and for him to forego the remainder to facilitate the transfer going through.
According to James Ducker in the Telegraph, De Jong agreed to reduce his salary by £9.4m for the 2020/21 season and then by £4.3m last season, meaning he is owed £13.7m in basic wages, while he is also believed to be owed a further £3.4m in bonuses for playing in at least 60% of Barcelona’s matches over the previous two seasons. This is money that he is owed.
This would all be galling enough, but the fact that it’s happening while Barcelona are loudly proclaiming their entitlement to spend £100m on Raphinha and Robert Lewandowski is what makes it really stick in the craw.
It takes a degree of audacity to be truly terrible and there can be a point at which – regardless of what you may think of the ethics of whatever somebody has done – it can be difficult not to stand back and admire the chutzpah.
Barcelona, as we all already know, are an absolute financial mess. One of the biggest in the entire history of the game. In debt to the tune of £1.2bn, they’ve already lost their most iconic player of all time, and now they’ve had to take out the sporting equivalent of an equity release mortgage, but this club – an organisation without any apparent self-awareness – now seems intent, in its desperation to get back to what it assumes to be its ‘rightful’ place, on trashing its own reputation.
Transfer reporter Jacque Talbot reported that Barcelona have only offered to pay him £3.5m of what he is owed as severance and for him to forego the remainder to facilitate the transfer going through.
According to James Ducker in the Telegraph, De Jong agreed to reduce his salary by £9.4m for the 2020/21 season and then by £4.3m last season, meaning he is owed £13.7m in basic wages, while he is also believed to be owed a further £3.4m in bonuses for playing in at least 60% of Barcelona’s matches over the previous two seasons. This is money that he is owed.
This would all be galling enough, but the fact that it’s happening while Barcelona are loudly proclaiming their entitlement to spend £100m on Raphinha and Robert Lewandowski is what makes it really stick in the craw.
But we aren’t walking away, we are lowering the fee. We have to remember that De Jong doesn’t actually want to leave here.
If a club is willing to accede to Barca's demands and cover a portion if not all of De Jong's deferred wages, then well played to them. I hope ours walk away from this nonsense. We're already paying a huge premium for a player who is often subbed off mid-game under Xavi and cannot displace Busquets in his preferred role. If he were such a great deal there'd be more clubs in the mix.
Eh? You suggested that we look away to other targets.
What we certainly don’t want to do is put De Jong in a position in which he feels his only choice it to write off what he is owed and take a huge pay cut, losing tens of millions.
We wait, whilst the player and Barça work it out.
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