Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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I doubt he'll go to City. His problem in Barcelona is Busquets, and City has Rodri as the deepest midfielder in a pivot; he'd encounter the same problem. His role is to connect the defense to midfield, it's not like they'll shift Rodri around to be some roaming midfielder with that tank like mobility of his. Plus Rodri is world class and is barely injured. They're getting Phillips for cover. De Jong isn't coming for cover.

If he's coming to the PL it'll be for us. I reckon the city interest is just to scare us.
 
Jack-C20 said:
Isn’t Barca’s main motivation for selling him to save money? Surely Silva would be on similar wages and there won’t be much of a fee involved. I’m not properly invested yet so will hold off on a complete meltdown for now.
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He wouldnt be on similar wages. De Jongs wages are insane
 
Joseunited said:
So City go for Haaland,Cucurella,Phillips ad FDJ?
I doubt it.
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Think it's Barca trying to bait us into paying what they want. We have form for paying up whenever City gets linked to players we want to sign. Maguire, Fred, Sanchez and Ronaldo are testament to that, let's just hope Murtourgh sees through it.
 
I hope if we sign De Jong he'll be coming here knowing he is part of a team and not someone who would require special treatment and conditions....I don't want another Pogba scenario here.
 
Trex said:
I hope if we sign De Jong he'll be coming here knowing he is part of a team and not someone who would require special treatment and conditions....I don't want another Pogba scenario here.
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What special treatment and conditions did Pogba demand?
 
JPRouve said:
On topic. Barcelona deal is about selling their broadcasting rights to Bank of America in exchange of 600m. There are two things about it, it presumably means that Bank of America will be the ones collecting Barcelona's broadcasting revenue or a part of it and it also has no consequence on their need to abide to the LFP financial fair play rules, it just fixes their cash issues. If I'm not mistaken they still need to reduce their wage bill.
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Darlington Padgett said:
La liga's salary cap is based on revenue from the past season so I guess that will help them next season but not this one. I'm guessing they do need the FDJ money but the most important part is getting rid of that 350k a week salary.
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Javier Tebas 2 days ago "I've spoken many times and they know what they have to do from January to June to bring in players. They are working and I hope they do well because we don't like their situation. But if they make certain levers they will be able to make signings"
 
It is not just how much is market value but how much value it means to you and do you have equally good alternative as well. Barca knows how important he is for our plan so the value will be driven up. If city comes calling then probably Barca would give more room for negotiation. I am just speculating. But my point is, if he is extremely valuable for our plan for next say 4 years then 70m plus bonus sounds right to me.
 
Tony247 said:
It is not just how much is market value but how much value it means to you and do you have equally good alternative as well. Barca knows how important he is for our plan so the value will be driven up. If city comes calling then probably Barca would give more room for negotiation. I am just speculating. But my point is, if he is extremely valuable for our plan for next say 4 years then 70m plus bonus sounds right to me.
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It also depends on how desperate you are to sell. If Barca need money, it weakens their position.
 
Becks00 said:
Think this is Barca trying to force our hand. No reliable City journo is running with this story and City would probably rather not lose Silva.
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This is their version of we're interested in Raphinha / Lewandowski.

It will be Barca V2 if FdJ goes there, Rodri is still young and he's got the #6 tied up nicely.
 
The stuff coming out in the past couple of days seem like obvious negotiation ploys. Catalunya Radio especially are just going to be a Barca mouthpiece.

"United are backing away and looking at other targets" = Lower the price or we'll go elsewhere. "City are the likely destination" = Pay up or we'll sell him to City.
 
Reports of us walking away, or looking at Neves or others as an alternative are likely rumours shared by us, designed to make Barca blink first.

Reports of De Jong going to City and Silva being included in the deal are likely rumours shared by Barca, designer to make us blink first.

It's all part of the game. These guys all like to think they're the cleverest man in the room.
 
Tavern in the town said:
What special conditions?
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The Athletic report on a preview of “The Pogmentary”, to be shown on Amazon Prime from tomorrow, which sheds some light on Pogba’s world.
The film shows interesting discussions with the late Mino Raiola, who was the Frenchman’s agent, in which it was revealed that Pogba’s reaction to the offer United put on the table was to call it “nothing”.
The Athletic quotes the following section:
“Did Manchester (United) make a second offer?” Pogba asks.
“Yes. They absolutely want you to stay. For me, the offer doesn’t reflect that. I told them, ‘If you want him to stay, don’t make that offer’. I will make them understand that if they really want you to stay and they want to build a project around you, this time they have to act differently and put the money on the table.”

“They’re bluffing,” Pogba says. “How can you tell a player you absolutely want him and offer him nothing? Never seen that.”
In another section, the 29-year-old says “My thought process is to show Manchester that they made a mistake in waiting to give me a contract … and to show other clubs that Manchester had made a mistake in not offering me a contract.”
 

The team being built around him.
Doing less defensive work than the next man.
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Are you familiar at all with De Jong’s troubles at Barca?
 
It's Barca putting pressure on us ffs. Can we please treat this with the same level of ridiculousness as we all treated the 'United ready to hijack Nunez deal'
 
Compton22 said:
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Tbh, isn’t this what we all wanted? Woodward would regularly get his pants pulled down in negotiations but it seems Murtough is trying to change the perception of how we operate. I’ll give credit where it’s due, hold the line and make other signings while Barca sweat knowing they can’t register their new signings.
 
I understand the frustration, I get it every time I click on this thread and feel the chill from the ghosts from transfer windows past. That said, you can count the number of major completed transfers on one hand right now, the most notable being a buy-out clause deal and the other a straight-up eye-watering fee. While this is enough for some to throw John Murtagh, Richard Arnold and their firstborn children in a watery grave, it feels just a little too early to be digging out the Stanley knives and spanners. The transfer window opened six days ago and has another 78 to run. No doubt about it, we'd all like to have concluded our transfer business within that first 7% of the window, but considering our manager was appointed less than two months ago and there's been a couple of weeks of pointless internationals, it does feel like there might be a little room to cut the club some unfashionable slack. It is the start of a new regime on the field (hopefully), in the back room and in the board room, there is little to no chance of this window going as well as anyone would like, but I do not believe that Ten Hag was brought in without assurances or under false pretences. The club has done little to deserve patience, but changes have been made and you'd be daft to not give them time to see if they work out. Getting back to De Jong, I find it hard to believe that United would continue to pursue a player that Ten Hag knows personally without some reassurance that it would happen.
 
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Giggsy13 said:
Tbh, isn’t this what we all wanted? Woodward would regularly get his pants pulled down in negotiations but it seems Murtough is trying to change the perception of how we operate. I’ll give credit where it’s due, hold the line and make other signings while Barca sweat knowing they can’t register their new signings.
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We’re not making other signings
 
SATA said:
Barca need the money for selling De Jong and yet they are studying a swap deal with City? Yeah right
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they did do that bizarre arthur for pjanic swap to do some wonky accounting, could be another case of that.
 
Rozay said:
The team being built around him.
Doing less defensive work than the next man.
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Are you familiar at all with De Jong’s troubles at Barca?
[/QUOTE]
It mainly been about not getting the best of him because he hasn't been used in his ideal role. He has shown more loyalty to Barca than Pogba did with us, but am just saying coming here he should expect no different than at Barca and should be expected to play to the coaches demands be it his best role or not.....anything wrong with that?
 
Giggsy13 said:
Tbh, isn’t this what we all wanted? Woodward would regularly get his pants pulled down in negotiations but it seems Murtough is trying to change the perception of how we operate. I’ll give credit where it’s due, hold the line and make other signings while Barca sweat knowing they can’t register their new signings.
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Barca need this deal done by the end of the month, so between now and then something will give, we don't need to panic the pressure is on them.
 
Giggsy13 said:
Tbh, isn’t this what we all wanted? Woodward would regularly get his pants pulled down in negotiations but it seems Murtough is trying to change the perception of how we operate. I’ll give credit where it’s due, hold the line and make other signings while Barca sweat knowing they can’t register their new signings.
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Yes it is, but I hope they also prepare for the possibility that he might not be signed and have a viable alternative ready. I think the Vitinha links point to that, they know how much is needed to get him should it come to that and he seems a similar player to De Jong.

I do like the poverty the club is pleading around though, either genuine or not, it's always better to make out you have less than you do but then there is also the balancing of getting in players early which the coaching staff would always prefer. Either ways in Murtourgh we trust.
 
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Rozay said:
So what do you propose if we are unable to agree a deal with Barcelona by 01 July? Has it now become ‘too late’ to sign De Jong after that point? Do we just ‘move on’ as people have been begging us to do for a month once they saw the deal wasn’t closed within 24 hours? Do we get a different player for the next 5 years because we might only get De Jong 20 days after pre-season starts?

And players struggle for various reasons. West Ham signed Tevez and Mascherano on deadline day and they kept them in the PL. Manchester United signed Dwight Yorke on 20 August and he damn near won us a treble 9 months later. We signed Van Persie at a similar time and he won us the league. Ultimately, the most important thing is to get the players that we want. And to do that, we have the parameters of the transfer window, no arbitrary dates that impatient fans on Twitter create. If United unveil De Jong, Timber, Rice and Antony on deadline day, I would be delighted and not see them as having signed ‘too late’.

Early deals are simply preferred. They are not guaranteed and by no means standard procedure. This can be evidenced by how few deals have been completed now, in comparison to where that number will stand come 01 September. I doubt even 10% of the PL total business has been done yet. And every club ‘had months to work on deals and knew they needed players’.
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I'm not saying that, all I'm saying is that it will likely hamper next season if we don't have him in by the time we fly out on tour. I still think he'd be the best player we could sign even if it was deadline day.

In a hypothetical scenario that no other business can get done before we figure out what's going on with FDJ (not what I believe to be true) then I'd say we should set a deadline and move on if it passes. If as expected we can sign other players in the meantime then I'd keep trying to hammer out a deal for him as I think he'll transform us into a team with a plan of attack.
 
Trex said:
Barca need this deal done by the end of the month, so between now and then something will give, we don't need to panic the pressure is on them.
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We don't need to panic yet but I would not want to risk our main transfer going to end of the month, considering it seems all our other transfer hinge on De Jong.
 
Giggsy13 said:
Tbh, isn’t this what we all wanted? Woodward would regularly get his pants pulled down in negotiations but it seems Murtough is trying to change the perception of how we operate. I’ll give credit where it’s due, hold the line and make other signings while Barca sweat knowing they can’t register their new signings.
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Woodward was calm and dragged out negotiations and still ended up paying the fee that was requested months previously
 
Trex said:
The Athletic report on a preview of “The Pogmentary”, to be shown on Amazon Prime from tomorrow, which sheds some light on Pogba’s world.
The film shows interesting discussions with the late Mino Raiola, who was the Frenchman’s agent, in which it was revealed that Pogba’s reaction to the offer United put on the table was to call it “nothing”.
The Athletic quotes the following section:
“Did Manchester (United) make a second offer?” Pogba asks.
“Yes. They absolutely want you to stay. For me, the offer doesn’t reflect that. I told them, ‘If you want him to stay, don’t make that offer’. I will make them understand that if they really want you to stay and they want to build a project around you, this time they have to act differently and put the money on the table.”

“They’re bluffing,” Pogba says. “How can you tell a player you absolutely want him and offer him nothing? Never seen that.”
In another section, the 29-year-old says “My thought process is to show Manchester that they made a mistake in waiting to give me a contract … and to show other clubs that Manchester had made a mistake in not offering me a contract.”
Click to expand...
Still waiting for a special condition.
 
Trex said:
It mainly been about not getting the best of him because he hasn't been used in his ideal role. He has shown more loyalty to Barca than Pogba did with us, but am just saying coming here he should expect no different than at Barca and should be expected to play to the coaches demands be it his best role or not.....anything wrong with that?
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In short, like Pogba, he is also required to be used in his most suited role in order to get the best out of him, and not doing so has been shown to raise similar questions about his effectiveness. Him coming here and also being used incorrectly would be pointless. So I disagree with your statement of hoping that FDJ ‘is not like Pogba and understands that it is a team game and not require conditions’ as FDJ would be exactly like Pogba in that respect. He is literally ‘like Pogba’ in that respect at his current club, with much discussion, both from the player and other watchers about how he would prefer to be used differently.

I expect him to do what he can if played differently to how he would like, but Pogba hasn’t shown that he doesn’t understand it is a team game or anything, and hasn’t exactly refused to play unless it’s in his preferred 433 or anything. It’s simply that our set up has not always highlighted his strengths and hidden his weaknesses. If we do the same with De Jong, he will be exactly like Pogba.

Your comments about loyalty are moving the goalposts. De Jong has shown no greater affinity towards us than Pogba who, at 29, has spent all but 4 years of his pro career as a United player. De Jong will likely come here kicking and screaming. The two will be very similar, and ultimately, they are footballers, and hopefully we build a team that plays to the strengths of our players, especially our better ones as De Jong will be. But if we play him as a 10 or a lone DM and his performances are questioned as they have been in Spain, it will be de ja vu.
 
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