Which is why I said that mid august would be an issue unlike for example July 10th.
Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
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Which is why I said that mid august would be an issue unlike for example July 10th.
Sacarsm
On its own this delay is nothing but a slight concern. Sure we have alot of deadwood we need to get rid off + positions that needs to be filled, so you'll expect the club to act swiftly. Having said that its still too early to judge this transfer window as a mess.
However the perspective change when such delay is added to a series of mistakes the club had made throughout the years and who kept repeating even after Jon Murtough became DOF on March 2021 . For example we signed Varane who is injury prone, we refused to buy a DM, we didn't sell Lingard and Pogba, we stuck to Ole when it was evident that he was clearly out of depth and then went on hiring Rangnick as a temporary manager despite having never manager a top club before and was semi retired management wise.
Regarding your main point, I think that United's weakness lies in its culture. We basically rely on the visionary genius to take control over every football aspect of the club. It comes to no surprise that 99% of all our honours came under just 2 managers, something you can barely find it elsewhere, at least when we're referring to top clubs. Which is why I am so pessimistic around Murtough and Fletcher. The latter is part of the same system that needs to be overhauled. Even if by some miracle he understand that, he lacks both experience and quite honestly the reputation to push for that change. Murtough is Woodward's man. He lacks the CV of an elite DOF with the reputation needed to challenge a culture which is nearly a century old. On top of that I find the idea that he had nothing to do with the mess done in the past decade or so as ridiculous considering that the guy was signed and promoted during this time. Who would promote someone only to ignore his advice?
As said nothing would make me happier if I am proven wrong on this. I wish that Murtough and Fletcher are able to turn this club into the modern and efficient machine it once was. However I very much doubt it.
I imagine we want Frenkie to do that for the next 5 years. The exact week we sign him in 2022 is fairly inconsequential in that respect, certainly if it conflicts with our ability to sign him at all, or paying a notably higher price.
Of course, the club wants to sign all players tomorrow for the fees they want. But they don’t have to, they have the entire window.
Ole getting the job permanently rings a bell.
It is tricky, we've only had a week of the window being open and most of our targets would have been with their national teams. Now they are on holiday for a couple of weeks.
Most transfers will happen in the first week of pre-season I would bet. What I think is frustrating is that we haven't managed to get anything further along. Whether it was a sale or a minor signing.
We often used to talk about making sure the new signings were on the tour as opposed to day 1 of pre-season. We play Liverpool in Thailand on the 12th July so you would imagine we are flying out somewhere around the 9-10th of July. It would be nice to have the new signings (or at least some of them) on that flight just for bonding purposes and training with their new teammates.
Which owners take dividends even during the Covid crisis? Name me owners of top clubs who would let their facilities to rot while still taking dividends. Don't take me wrong, I don't blame everything on the Glazers. If you follow my posts you'll notice that I am particularly critical at the football side of our board. However we mustn't forget that these owners had bought the club out of debt, they have no clue on how to manage a football club and they don't give a feck about it as long as they can squeeze money out of it
If the club only starts its business when the window opens then that is half the problem
United have knows from at least January that they would need an overhaul this summer and that plenty of players would be leaving on a free
Yeah, I wasn't actually saying we've only started to work now. It's just it usually ramps up once the window is formally open.
The rumours have been clear as well throughMay and June who we are pursuing so its not like we aren't trying. If someone like Timber says he wants to think about it then you have a choice to either give them time or give a deadline and move on. Ten Hag seems to want to give every chance to Timber and De Jong to be signed before he moves on to alternatives.
That's a big if and whether United knows they need an overhaul or not has little impact on the weeks we are going to be able to agree with other clubs on a deal.
When will people stop repeating this without any thought, do they not understand what the window opening actually means.
It’s not entitlement just common sense. Same people have failed repeatedly and repeated same cycle. Now off back of our worst Premier League season and with a a a manager who will need wholesale changes there should be more urgency. There isn’t because it’s run by the same people with no ambition and will be for many more years I imagine.
That is true, but a club doesn’t simply exist to sign players. There are a lot of other things we’d have been dealing with and prioritising since January. Like identifying and hiring a manager for a start, which in and of itself, would have a huge influence on players targeted.
And then, you know, we will sign players this summer, as expected - so there is also that.
Are you implying clubs don't agree deals before the window opens?
No, I'm implying that teams generally don't agree deals before the window open.
Indeed. Otherwise you’d need a two week window for medicals and be done with. I’m not sure what people think the existence of a transfer window a further two months after pre-season starts is for.
If given a choice, us, and any other club, would like all players in by pre-season. This can be demonstrated by the fact that we have signed several players in time for pre-season over the years. Clearly, if the possibility is there to do it, then we will. However, that is an artificial line to draw in the sand. A club will approach the summer with the aim of getting their targets in, or out, during the coming window. That’s it really. We want to sign who we want this summer. Not ‘this month’.
I do know what the window actually means thank you very much. You can agree to sign a player at any point in the season, you just can’t register a player for your team aka transfer them, until the window is open.
This very rarely happens and usually only happens if it does towards the end of the season and nearer to when the window opens.
It is 100% entitlement. We have fans even calling ETH poor or crap because nothing has been sorted. These things take time and they’re not an instant thing. It won’t be quick and it won’t be fast. We need some patience.
Where are these "rights" as fans derived from?
This is quite a big topic, but the justification that you cite doesn't seem convincing. Is it implicit between yourself and the club that you not only get a T-shirt, sausage roll or indeed season ticket for your money but also an expectation that they do "better", which I am guessing must translate to attain your definition of success.
If so, how do we explain the fact that there are a number of clubs of similar stature that all have fans that are exchanging their money for tickets and merchandise? Yet there are only ever a couple of clubs per year that reach tangible success, and this can run into periods of success due to the way football works. Are they really all being mistreated in respect to their right to whatever success is deemed to be by virtue this?
I don't think you have any such right. Your right is to moan, be positive, be objective, non-objective and to discuss on a forum. That's your own disposition which you control. But I don't think you have a justified right to expect success on the basis of what you have spent as there was never any guarantee offered and nor can there be.
I may be wrong, but wasn’t there a report going around earlier that ten Hag didn’t want our transfer negotiations to go public, as it was under Woodward? We may not be getting spoon fed info because ten Hag and Murtough want to keep things under wraps, which is why we’re getting the recycled tweets of old news or no news some days.
I can understand the frustration by some and skepticism being lodged at Murtough and the new structure. Why would anyone trust them when it’s been a decade of failure? I think Murtough and Arnold have a lot to do to convince supporters that they’re capable of leading the club back in the right direction. I don’t blame supporters for being annoyed with not having a few new signings after being offered some hope that things might actually be different under Murtough.
I can understand the frustration by some and skepticism being lodged at Murtough and the new structure. Why would anyone trust them when it’s been a decade of failure? I think Murtough and Arnold have a lot to do to convince supporters that they’re capable of leading the club back in the right direction. I don’t blame supporters for being annoyed with not having a few new signings after being offered some hope that things might actually be different under Murtough.
You misunderstood me or maybe I wasn’t clear enough...apologies. I don’t mean a right to expect success. I don’t care about success for the most part - I remember us not winning and winning and I enjoyed both periods in different ways.
I meant that we as Utd fans have a right to expect the club to be run better and the resources we Contribute to the club to be used better. A Port Vale fan cant expect to have the scouting network and pulling power to identify the top talent in the world and to hire the best to get those deals done quickly and efficiently in time for pre season.A Port Vale fan has no right to expect that because of the reality of where they are as a club and in the economic scheme of things....but a Utd fan does have that right because Utd have those resources thanks in large part to the fans.
Those resources are being focused elsewhere and as fans, we are watching a once well oiled machine creaking to a halt. We should expect more- to compete. If not, we are as good as saying that we are happy to hand over our love and time and support and cash for a sub par product. You wouldn’t do it in any other walk of life...so why Do it for football?
To implement the new style it would be nice to have him start doing that sooner, so that players like Fred and McT that have never played in a similar system, can gain some sort of idea of what they are meant to do. FDJ has played the system before and its his natural role he'll slot in seamlessly, as you'd expect with a system built around him. It's the other players getting used to that system without a linchpin of it present
The system doesnt depend on FDJ there are other players out there that could do the job
Of course. If the two clubs can agree tomorrow, then it is more ideal than them agreeing in a month. I just mean that, in the grand scheme of things - it’s inconsequential.
If De Jong comes in and signs a 6 year deal here, whether he signs on 01 July or 21 July at the very start doesn’t really matter. Henry is probably Arsenal’s greatest ever player, certainly in the PL. He spent around a decade there and made brilliant memories. I couldn’t tell you whether he signed in June or August in his first year, but I can tell you that it’s irrelevant - the most important thing was that he signed. Clubs will look at such massive investments in a much bigger context that whether they will be ready for the Brighton game or not.
100%. But this is why I don't see any proper semblance of his vision till after the WC. Not really a good year/season for a new manager to start in any new club really.
So you know but still post nonsense about how window has only just opened, like I said no thought put into it, a totally pointless comment people mindlessly repeat.
It’s not entitlement, we’re a business not a football club. That’s why we are where we are and why we won’t win anything significant for a good while. What the owners want is people who lap up patience and fall for the briefings about all the wonderful people now working at the club and why it’s so much better. Can’t possibly expect them to go above and beyond or achieve success.
I fell sorry for ETH because if everyone isn’t bending over backwards to get him off to best possible start he’ll be in trouble next summer and one after (if he lasts that long).
It might not make a difference to his whole time here, but it could make a difference to this upcoming season. We hear and see plenty of times that players struggle without a proper preseason. Trying to implement a completely new style of playing without the key men to do specific roles will be a waste of time.
None of Fred, McTominay or Garner (our 3 midfield options at present) have even a similar skillset as FDJ to enable the team to still function in the way ETH will want us to. Meaning any work on team shape in attacking phases and bringing the ball out from defence will be hampered.
I'm actually not worried at the moment, I'll be worried if we don't have the key players done by the time we fly out, before that I agree it makes no difference.
But none in our current squad
If Liverpool had taken this approach when Klopp signed, they would have signed Gotze instead of Salah.
Except none of the key starting players we are supposedly linked with would start day 1 of pre season and would be unlikely to start the first pre season game for that reason.
A lot of the first fortnight of work will be fitness and positional drills for the rest of the squad and any back ups for these key starters.
I suggest a big reason that we are targeting former Ten Hag players is not so much because Ten Hag will feel comfortable with them but moreso that these are players that no what is expected on the pitch and in training and should be able to just slot right into whatever we build up prior to them coming in.
Nah, they will get 650M potentitially which will solve a lot of issues. That exceeds their loans and will have money leftover for signings. Barca got hit hard by the pandemic but their value will only grow moving forward.
So what do you propose if we are unable to agree a deal with Barcelona by 01 July? Has it now become ‘too late’ to sign De Jong after that point? Do we just ‘move on’ as people have been begging us to do for a month once they saw the deal wasn’t closed within 24 hours? Do we get a different player for the next 5 years because we might only get De Jong 20 days after pre-season starts?
And players struggle for various reasons. West Ham signed Tevez and Mascherano on deadline day and they kept them in the PL. Manchester United signed Dwight Yorke on 20 August and he damn near won us a treble 9 months later. We signed Van Persie at a similar time and he won us the league. Ultimately, the most important thing is to get the players that we want. And to do that, we have the parameters of the transfer window, no arbitrary dates that impatient fans on Twitter create. If United unveil De Jong, Timber, Rice and Antony on deadline day, I would be delighted and not see them as having signed ‘too late’.
Early deals are simply preferred. They are not guaranteed and by no means standard procedure. This can be evidenced by how few deals have been completed now, in comparison to where that number will stand come 01 September. I doubt even 10% of the PL total business has been done yet. And every club ‘had months to work on deals and knew they needed players’.
Fecking he'll, its clear now. Ready for it to be inevitable next week
Fecking he'll, its clear now. Ready for it to be inevitable next week
Whats the moon status on catalunya radio?
Time for the meltdown?
Why do we have to drag every single transfer saga to no end?
Fecking he'll, its clear now. Ready for it to be inevitable next week
Is there not suppose to be a meeting between Barca socios and management today? Any report on them yet
Na, City distanced themselves from De Jong weeks ago.
plus Bernardo isn’t going to fecking Barca
Think this is Barca trying to force our hand. No reliable City journo is running with this story and City would probably rather not lose Silva.
Linked with being the key.
Isn’t Barca’s main motivation for selling him to save money? Surely Silva would be on similar wages and there won’t be much of a fee involved. I’m not properly invested yet so will hold off on a complete meltdown for now.
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