Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

  • Total voters
    2,033
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Chief123 said:
The problem is, I don’t actually believe the 17m is the problem. I’m sure FDJ wants his 17m but I’m also convinced Utd would happily pay it.

I don’t believe the rumours that FDJ only wants Barca to pay it out of principle. Footballers don’t care less where the money comes from as long as they get it. I don’t think FDJ would choose to stay just because Barca didn’t pay the money from their own pocket.

I just think the guy just doesn’t want to leave due to many factors including non-football related like lifestyle, spouse wishes etc.
Click to expand...
I think it's the 17m and the bolded. The "owed" wages just make the non-football reasons more difficult to overcome.

My post was directed at those calling him a amazing person I admire or money grabber if the 17m is the main sticking point. Watching another person's pockets is pathetic.
 
So this begs the question that was frequently asked before in this thread: why pursue him for four months when he isn’t keen?

Back then some FdJ experts here answered that his camp must have given us encouragement and people would be naive to think United would be so stupid to wate time on chasing someone who isn’t willing to come.

We are four months further and into the end game… He still looks absolutely not bothered joining us :lol:
 
Chief123 said:
The problem is, I don’t actually believe the 17m is the problem. I’m sure FDJ wants his 17m but I’m also convinced Utd would happily pay it.

I don’t believe the rumours that FDJ only wants Barca to pay it out of principle. Footballers don’t care less where the money comes from as long as they get it. I don’t think FDJ would choose to stay just because Barca didn’t pay the money from their own pocket.

I just think the guy just doesn’t want to leave due to many factors including non-football related like lifestyle, spouse wishes etc.
Click to expand...
Good point. I worked with expatriation consultant once and he told me that more than third of all overseas transfers that his client companies had, didn't work within a year due to family issues. The employee might be doing well but the spouse at home has to deal with the local culture in a completely different way.
That said, with the salaries these guys have, this shouldn't be much of a problem
 
Kevin said:
So this begs the question that was frequently asked before in this thread: why pursue him for four months when he isn’t keen?

Back then some FdJ experts here answered that his camp must have given us encouragement and people would be naive to think United would be so stupid to wate time on chasing someone who isn’t willing to come.

We are four months further and into the end game… He still looks absolutely not bothered joining us :lol:
Click to expand...
I’m guessing it was something along the lines of FDJ had told Utd that his situation at Barca is uncertain and if he did leave, he would be happy to join Utd but he wanted to pursue the possibility of staying.

He’s probably at the point where he feels it’s viable to stay as opposed to a few months ago.
 
Chief123 said:
The problem is, I don’t actually believe the 17m is the problem. I’m sure FDJ wants his 17m but I’m also convinced Utd would happily pay it.

I don’t believe the rumours that FDJ only wants Barca to pay it out of principle. Footballers don’t care less where the money comes from as long as they get it. I don’t think FDJ would choose to stay just because Barca didn’t pay the money from their own pocket.

I just think the guy just doesn’t want to leave due to many factors including non-football related like lifestyle, spouse wishes etc.
Click to expand...

After the way they've treated him in public and the way they have their mouthpieces repeat the completely illogical argument of 'either he's sold or he takes a pay cut" all summer, he needs to stand up for himself and go. He hasn't won anything with Barcelona other than the Spanish Cup once and they are much weaker than they look on paper. Real Madrid is far stronger.

However if they treat him like crap and are trying to weasel out of paying him his deferred wages, loyalty bonus and performance bonuses he is entitled to, then clearly he is well within his right to tell them to do one and stick around until they relent. There is no way he should be leaving 17M+ on the table to "help" a club that treats him like this. I suspect the issues have been massively compounded by Barca's insistence that his contract is criminal and that they therefore won't be paying him what they owe.

They could also owe him significantly more than 17M. We all quote the 17M as what he is owed, but he is due a loyalty bonus of 15M euros as well - which they should pay him given he is being sold and forced out. All in all we could be looking at 17M in deferred wages and 15M in loyalty bonus + bonuses that were deferred due to covid and the financial situation. So in reality we could be talking about €32M+. Which is an insane amount of money to just leave behind to "help" an employer that treats you like crap.
 
Don't feel too aggrieved given the Barca fans' views that he has been a bit of a disappointment for them so far. As others have said, we still need a mf who can progress the ball
 
RoyH1 said:
Good point. I worked with expatriation consultant once and he told me that more than third of all overseas transfers that his client companies had, didn't work within a year due to family issues. The employee might be doing well but the spouse at home has to deal with the local culture in a completely different way.
That said, with the salaries these guys have, this shouldn't be much of a problem
Click to expand...
I just think the "17m owed" conversation needs to stop. It makes zero sense for that to be the hold up. I honestly don't know why it is still being brought up by the journalists in the media. If it really was the only hold up, then this deal would be done by now because you can only have 2 possible scenarios IF that was the hold up:

- Barca owe him 17m. Barca get an £80m fee for FDJ and pay him 17m out of that transfer fee. Simple. It makes zero sense for Barca to refuse to pay the 17m because IF that is the hold up, then they are getting absolutely no transfer fee for him and are going to be paying him nearly £2m a month in wages. They are not that stupid they are going to miss out on 80m to save 17m.

- Lets say we believe Barca are refusing to pay him what hes owed (which doesnt make sense anyway as I mentioned above). Then Utd would more than happily pay the 17m considering we are willing to waste milions on silly signings as a panic solution.

So the 17m is absolutely not the sticking point here either by Barca or Utd. Barca would probably even pay him more than 17m if they knew it would get him out of the club and off the wages. If he stays another season, they are going to pay him well over 17m anyway.

The only viable and reasonable explanation as to why this move hasn't happened is FDJ does not want to leave despite the fact he may not be a regular. Other factors than football are clearly important to him. If I was in his situation, I would certainly take into consideration my family's interests and views as well regardless of my football career. I'm pretty certain his partner is absolutely against swapping Barca for Manchester (despite the lush houses in Cheshire!). I just think FDJ feels he's happy with being a bit part player for another season at least while continuing with the life him and his wife have in Spain. He's getting paid a shed load of money to enjoy his life in their ideal location.

Footballers aren't as "determined" and success driven as you'd imagine. Getting paid loads of money and having a good lifestyle is more important to a lot of footballers nowadays than footballing success. Just look at the likes of Oscar, Ramires and Hulk pretty much ending their careers at an early age for the exchange of money and the ability to live a good life.
 
What is the latest on the James Garner situation? I think this is a good barometer of the De Jong deal.

Ten Hag said that if De Jong doesn't come, he will mould someone else into that role from within the squad. McFred are clearly not going to be moulded into progressive playmakers. Eriksen arguably could be, but Garner is probably the most natural "deep playmaker" amongst the younger members of the squad who could be moulded into the De Jong role, so I would be surprised if Ten Hag let's him leave without De Jong coming.

Watch the James Garner thread....
 
Laurencio said:
After the way they've treated him in public and the way they have their mouthpieces repeat the completely illogical argument of 'either he's sold or he takes a pay cut" all summer, he needs to stand up for himself and go. He hasn't won anything with Barcelona other than the Spanish Cup once and they are much weaker than they look on paper. Real Madrid is far stronger.
Click to expand...
The thing is I'm not seeing him being treated that badly in public by the club. I've not seen the club publicly villify him as much as they did with Dembele who ended up staying. If anything, Barca have publicly been quite praising of FDJ and bit their tongue when they clearly want rid. Xavi repeatedly mentions how he's a valuable player and can offer something to the team. Laporte repeatedly says they love him and want him to stay but on their terms. I don't see the public bad treatment.


Laurencio said:
They could also owe him significantly more than 17M. We all quote the 17M as what he is owed, but he is due a loyalty bonus of 15M euros as well - which they should pay him given he is being sold and forced out. All in all we could be looking at 17M in deferred wages and 15M in loyalty bonus + bonuses that were deferred due to covid and the financial situation. So in reality we could be talking about €32M+. Which is an insane amount of money to just leave behind to "help" an employer that treats you like crap.
Click to expand...
This goes back to my last post then. If they do owe him even more than reported, it makes even less sense for them not to pay him what he's owed by using the 80m transfer fee. If they don't pay him what he's owed, then he stays put and they miss out on a huge net profit. Hence, why I don't believe Barca owing FDJ money is the reason for the hold up.
 
HabeasC said:
Don't feel too aggrieved given the Barca fans' views that he has been a bit of a disappointment for them so far. As others have said, we still need a mf who can progress the ball
Click to expand...
I've mentioned this previously. Even though FDJ would be a great signing for us and be a big upgrade, I honestly don't think he's as good as many believe on here. I don't regard him as someone who would come in and completely transform us into a top team. I think he comes in and gives us good efficient performances which work well in the system. Similar to how Eriksen and Casemiro will give us key attributes in key positions. FDJ would be great but not the world beater he has been hyped to on here.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
Click to expand...

It’s been obvious for a while. I said last night it’s us or stay and cause problems for Barca. I don’t accept he will take the wage cut, Barca have pissed him off too much, and I still think this will run - although I accept Whitwell and Stone at their word, but they are reporting what they have been told and that isn’t necessarily the whole picture.
 
MackRobinson said:
Anyone saying they would give up the 17M is full of shite. If it's such a small sum of money, then FC Levers or United should pay it.
Click to expand...

17M is a lot of money, but would you play part-time CB and risk your career for the sake of deferred wages, especially when you have huge potential to get bigger contracts in the future? Sticking to 17M may not be the best financial decision in the longer term.
 
Chief123 said:
I just think the "17m owed" conversation needs to stop. It makes zero sense for that to be the hold up. I honestly don't know why it is still being brought up by the journalists in the media. If it really was the only hold up, then this deal would be done by now because you can only have 2 possible scenarios IF that was the hold up:

- Barca owe him 17m. Barca get an £80m fee for FDJ and pay him 17m out of that transfer fee. Simple. It makes zero sense for Barca to refuse to pay the 17m because IF that is the hold up, then they are getting absolutely no transfer fee for him and are going to be paying him nearly £2m a month in wages. They are not that stupid they are going to miss out on 80m to save 17m.

- Lets say we believe Barca are refusing to pay him what hes owed (which doesnt make sense anyway as I mentioned above). Then Utd would more than happily pay the 17m considering we are willing to waste milions on silly signings as a panic solution.

So the 17m is absolutely not the sticking point here either by Barca or Utd. Barca would probably even pay him more than 17m if they knew it would get him out of the club and off the wages. If he stays another season, they are going to pay him well over 17m anyway.

The only viable and reasonable explanation as to why this move hasn't happened is FDJ does not want to leave despite the fact he may not be a regular. Other factors than football are clearly important to him. If I was in his situation, I would certainly take into consideration my family's interests and views as well regardless of my football career. I'm pretty certain his partner is absolutely against swapping Barca for Manchester (despite the lush houses in Cheshire!). I just think FDJ feels he's happy with being a bit part player for another season at least while continuing with the life him and his wife have in Spain. He's getting paid a shed load of money to enjoy his life in their ideal location.

Footballers aren't as "determined" and success driven as you'd imagine. Getting paid loads of money and having a good lifestyle is more important to a lot of footballers nowadays than footballing success. Just look at the likes of Oscar, Ramires and Hulk pretty much ending their careers at an early age for the exchange of money and the ability to live a good life.
Click to expand...
You answered it yourself in the first two points.

The clubs are playing poker with each other (and De Jong), to see who is going to pay (forego) the £17m, and none of them want to blink first. Each one is downplaying their situation, Barca pretending that they are happy for him to stay, United pretending they don't really need him, and De Jong pretending that he is happy to stay.

Who will blink first?
 
BluesJr said:
We are still woefully short in midfield.
Click to expand...
We've gone from having the 4 below last season for the 2 holding midfield roles:

Fred - 1st choice
Mctominay - 1st choice
Matic - Can barely play 2 in a row
Pogba - Barely stayed fit


To now having

Casemiro
Eriksen
Mctominay
Fred
DVB

So our first 2 choices have dropped to 3rd/4th depending on the type of match it is. So I would say we are in a better position to last year with also having the likes of Zidane who have developed another year. I still think we need another CM and move McTominay out on loan or permanent. But it wouldn't be a disaster having what we do.
 
Erik the Red said:
You answered it yourself in the first two points.

The clubs are playing poker with each other (and De Jong), to see who is going to pay (forego) the £17m, and none of them want to blink first. Each one is downplaying their situation, Barca pretending that they are happy for him to stay, United pretending they don't really need him, and De Jong pretending that he is happy to stay.

Who will blink first?
Click to expand...
The hold up is not the 17m, you will see. If he ends up staying, then we all accept it wasn't about 17m right?
 
Plant0x84 said:
It’s been obvious for a while. I said last night it’s us or stay and cause problems for Barca. I don’t accept he will take the wage cut, Barca have pissed him off too much, and I still think this will run - although I accept Whitwell and Stone at their word, but they are reporting what they have been told and that isn’t necessarily the whole picture.
Click to expand...
They also reported a while ago we were done with Antony
 
Ted Lasso said:
If Barca want him gone, it will be tough for him to stay. I can't think of any other players that have managed to stay when Barca wanted them out, including Messi.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/it-...-out-barcelona-making-him/blt92e62083513285ad
Click to expand...
It's not for Barca to decide. The only way Barca can force this is by terminating his contract and paying him out which is absolutely not going to happen.

Anyway, FDJ is not getting told to train alone. In fact, he's getting into the starting lineup when needed.
 
Do you guys still think there is a chance Frenkie will come? How much money is there to spend? After Casemiro (great buy) and potentially up the bid for Antony to 100 million euro’s, how much will there be left to still buy Frenkie?

If we could get Martinez, Malacia, Eriksen, Casemiro, Antony and maybe a right back in one transfer window it would be an amazing transfer window for us. Next transfer window get a better goalkeeper and a better striker.

Meunier could be a good right back for us but Barcelona are trying to buy him with Dest going the other way.
 
Maybe I'm a cynical person, but if we're to believe the issue is either over love of Barcelona or being owed €17million, I'm gonna assume it's down to the money every time. :lol:
 
Chief123 said:
It's not for Barca to decide. The only way Barca can force this is by terminating his contract and paying him out which is absolutely not going to happen.

Anyway, FDJ is not getting told to train alone. In fact, he's getting into the starting lineup when needed.
Click to expand...

Not a contractual decision. But by pressuring in various ways. The Puig story is interesting. Not least because they got him binned to the MLS
 
Chief123 said:
The hold up is not the 17m, you will see. If he ends up staying, then we all accept it wasn't about 17m right?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The 17m hold up has been talked about as if that is the only hold up in the deal. The main thing is De Jong did not want to leave. Simple as that.

Watch how next week, De Jong stays and there is no salary reduction.
 
romufc said:
Exactly. The 17m hold up has been talked about as if that is the only hold up in the deal. The main thing is De Jong did not want to leave. Simple as that.

Watch how next week, De Jong stays and there is no salary reduction.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm still awaiting the legal action I'm sure they are going to take because De Jong's contract is supposedly illegal or something. 'Cause I'm sure they would love to haul a player on their team into court.
 
8 days to go and I still think it's Frenkie who doesn't really want to come rather than wages, transfer fee or anything else
 
DavelinaJolie said:
Yeah. I'm still awaiting the legal action I'm sure they are going to take because De Jong's contract is supposedly illegal or something. 'Cause I'm sure they would love to haul a player on their team into court.
Click to expand...

Nothings going to happen. Its all talk from the Spanish media.

Obviously Barca wanted to sell, but De Jong did not want to leave so they threatened him with 1. Law suit 2. Blackmail, reduce wages to stay.

De Jong on the other hand is happy to be there and take his wage with little regard about his footballing career. I say this because he is not first choice and has already come out saying he plays a different role to what he likes there.
 
romufc said:
Exactly. The 17m hold up has been talked about as if that is the only hold up in the deal. The main thing is De Jong did not want to leave. Simple as that.

Watch how next week, De Jong stays and there is no salary reduction.
Click to expand...

that's fine, but his club have made it clear they don't want him to stay, they want him off their payroll. The club already accepted our bid. He has a contract and he can stay due to that, but when clubs want rid of someone they usually get their way. If he does stay I'd imagine there would be a salary reduction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.