Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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KirkDuyt said:
What does that have to do with him being an unquestionable success at Chelsea? He hardly plays for them (bit more lately though) and didn't feature in the CL final at all.
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If he's done more at Chelsea than at Ajax hes obviously been a success in his time there. It would be one thing if he had loads of top level accomplishment before he signed for Chelsea, but he didnt. He played in a much weaker league and did worse in europe. Now he plays as part of the champions league winners.

If you dont consider that success, then your barometer is broke
 
Ekeke said:
If he's done more at Chelsea than at Ajax hes obviously been a success in his time there. It would be one thing if he had loads of top level accomplishment before he signed for Chelsea, but he didnt. He played in a much weaker league and did worse in europe. Now he plays as part of the champions league winners.

If you dont consider that success, then your barometer is broke
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I think we are talking about different things. Yes, he's won more at Chelsea, but I'm quite sure the original poster you quoted meant whether any of the Ajax players who moved abroad are now an unquestionable asset to the clubs they joined. Not whether the clubs they joined had success. Ziyech has done feck all at Chelsea on a personal level. Chelsea as a club have done well.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I think we are talking about different things. Yes, he's won more at Chelsea, but I'm quite sure the original poster you quoted meant whether any of the Ajax players who moved abroad are now an unquestionable asset to the clubs they joined. Not whether the clubs they joined had success. Ziyech has done feck all at Chelsea on a personal level. Chelsea as a club have done well.
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He's contributed, he's not an undeniable starter but he gets runs of games which is far more impressive than starting for Ajax

10 champions league games, 23 starts, 6 FA cup games with 6 goals and 4 assists in a good season for chelsea where they won the champions league so the competition is obviously at a high level isnt feck all.

This season its 11 league games which is plenty
 
Ekeke said:
He's contributed, he's not an undeniable starter but he gets runs of games which is far more impressive than starting for Ajax

10 champions league games, 23 starts, 6 FA cup games with 6 goals and 4 assists in a good season for chelsea where they won the champions league so the competition is obviously at a high level isnt feck all.

This season its 11 league games which is plenty
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Fine feck all was a bit over board. He's a competent rotation player, which is far less than I would've hoped for him. And I maintain that not starting nor even featuring in the last 5 CL games, the most important ones, doesn't make you an unquestionable asset to the team.

I will concede that he was cheap (for oil club standards), he's making a lot of money and winning a lot of prizes :)
 
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KirkDuyt said:
Fine feck all was a bit over board. He's a competent rotation player, which is far less than I would've hoped for him. And I maintain that not starting nor even featuring in the last 5 CL games, the most important ones, doesn't make you an unquestionable asset to the team.

I will concede that he was cheap (for oil club standards), he's making a lot of money and winning a lot of prizes :)
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Yeah he's rotational which normally wouldnt be impressive, but when you're talking about the current champions league winners it has to be. Cuz they were the best team... So even getting starts for them is good.

Not like DVB not getting a game at the 7th placed premier league team or De Jong with how Barcelona are doing. The competition isnt very high there and neither is the success
 
I think Tuchel has tried offloading Ziyech since last summer. Weird to call him a success, just because the team he plays for do well.
 
BlueHaze said:
Are Barcelona really that daft they are willing to let him go?
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Barca seem to have a first choice now of Pedri, Busquets and Gavi in midfield with Roberto, Puig and Nico all in reserve so you could say De Jong is fourth choice in the pecking order under Xavi whilst being one of their most easily sellable assets to bring big money in.
 
Good overview of De Jong. He's not the deep lying conductor we're desperate for, but rather he's the more advanced midfielder who progresses the ball through dribbling and contributing to the attack. He's the perfect kind of player for a midfield which already has its ball winner and controller. He complements that pivot/three man midfield perfectly. But if you're looking for a controller he's not the answer.

 
Woodenlung said:
Good overview of De Jong. He's not the deep lying conductor we're desperate for, but rather he's the more advanced midfielder who progresses the ball through dribbling and contributing to the attack. He's the perfect kind of player for a midfield which already has its ball winner and controller. He complements that pivot/three man midfield perfectly. But if you're looking for a controller he's not the answer.

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De Jong is a no.6 - he should be played as the deepest midfielder. The best compliment for him would be a box to box partner in a deeper midfield two, and currently we start two players of that ilk.
 
Woodenlung said:
Good overview of De Jong. He's not the deep lying conductor we're desperate for, but rather he's the more advanced midfielder who progresses the ball through dribbling and contributing to the attack. He's the perfect kind of player for a midfield which already has its ball winner and controller. He complements that pivot/three man midfield perfectly. But if you're looking for a controller he's not the answer.

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That's odd the criticism from the Barcelona fans is that he's ineffective in advance positions and only useful playing deeper.
 
passing-wind said:
That's odd the criticism from the Barcelona fans is that he's ineffective in advance positions and only useful playing deeper.
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From what I've seen online the Barca fans feel he's underwhelming wherever he's played.
 
FrankDrebin said:
From what I've seen online the Barca fans feel he's underwhelming wherever he's played.
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at the moment yes, but thing to note is that he's in the top 10 of players by minutes played in 2021. An absolutely high amount of minutes.



No wonder his form dropped off
 
He isn't a DM while Barca has better options as CMs. They can cash him and invest in other areas. Makes sense !

If we can get ETH in, I think we can form a brilliant midfield with a DM, FDJ and Donny.
 
Has he taken a pay cut at Barcelona?
Vaguely remember him being on some ridiculous wage like £400k a week.
Surely we wouldn't be stupid enough to match that :lol:
 
Woodenlung said:
Good overview of De Jong. He's not the deep lying conductor we're desperate for, but rather he's the more advanced midfielder who progresses the ball through dribbling and contributing to the attack. He's the perfect kind of player for a midfield which already has its ball winner and controller. He complements that pivot/three man midfield perfectly. But if you're looking for a controller he's not the answer.

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That is actually a great thread(and blog!)

De Jong *is* a DM in the sense of starting position. Not in terms of skillset obviously. I tend to think of him as a decent defensive player, but then i admit i have blind spot here in that i tend to rate positioning almost to the exclusion of all else. I think De Jong's positioning is good, i disagree that he's not good at tracking what's happening behind him. But other than that, it's hard to argue against what her point

De Jong is made for a double pivot, ideally with a holding player who is defensively strong

And in many ways i think he should be a great fit for United(though i haven't paid much attention about Bruno/Sancho's pressing ability). What you need more than anything is a great ball progressor who can get the ball from defence to the attackers quickly, reliably and dangerously. That's the one thing De Jong is better at than almost every other midfielder in the world
 
He was another who looked like gold at Ajax.
The hype continues, it must be because of the exotic name, because if even Barcelona who play in a lower league and is bankrupt wants to get rid of him at all costs...
He is a player who has stalled his progression, he shows a total lack of personality, he has settled with what he has already achieved.
He can play well in Germany, Holland, but in the Premier League, he would be one of the biggest flops in history.
Bad luck to whoever buys him.
And after so many mistakes I sincerely hope it's not Chelsea.

That many we have to get rid of.
 
non profit football said:
He was another who looked like gold at Ajax.
The hype continues, it must be because of the exotic name, because if even Barcelona who play in a lower league and is bankrupt wants to get rid of him at all costs...
He is a player who has stalled his progression, he shows a total lack of personality, he has settled with what he has already achieved.
He can play well in Germany, Holland, but in the Premier League, he would be one of the biggest flops in history.
Bad luck to whoever buys him.
And after so many mistakes I sincerely hope it's not Chelsea.

That many we have to get rid of.
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De Jong did last year 3-4 months at a very high level, being together with Messi, Pedri and Araujo the best of the team. He is now going through a time of doubt and needs to rediscover himself and gain confidence.
 
Woodenlung said:
Good overview of De Jong. He's not the deep lying conductor we're desperate for, but rather he's the more advanced midfielder who progresses the ball through dribbling and contributing to the attack. He's the perfect kind of player for a midfield which already has its ball winner and controller. He complements that pivot/three man midfield perfectly. But if you're looking for a controller he's not the answer.

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Sounds like a player who would do well at City but probably not for us. Like you mention though not the kind of player we are really looking for.
 
Woodenlung said:
Good overview of De Jong. He's not the deep lying conductor we're desperate for, but rather he's the more advanced midfielder who progresses the ball through dribbling and contributing to the attack. He's the perfect kind of player for a midfield which already has its ball winner and controller. He complements that pivot/three man midfield perfectly. But if you're looking for a controller he's not the answer.

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Frenkie de Jong is not an attacking player at all. Barca is trying to make him one, which is why he's dogshit at the moment. He does not like to attack the box whatsoever. He likes to receive the ball from the defense and transition it to the attackers (attacking midfielders).

Even more wrong is the "high risk high reward" remark. He's not high rist at all (unless you consider the dribbling high rist). He's not the guy that makes the final through ball or shoots on goal, he's purely transitional.

He's a defender much more than an attacker, which is why he played as a central defender for Ajax quite a lot. I'm sure his numbers at Barca at the moment point the otherway, but that's because they want him to be an attacker and he's trying (and failing) to be one. Frenkie de Jong is a defensive midfielder in a (not sure this is the correct term) double pivot. With a stronger tackler beside him and a creative force or number 8 (Ziyech or Donny at Ajax) in front of him.

Ah this dude actually says this as well later on. Still, he's not as much an attacker as he says. At all.

edit: wait maybe the twitter person isn't a dude.

Only logical conclusion; United sign him as a replacement for McTominay to play next to Fred. Would be the perfect fit for him positionally.
 
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KirkDuyt said:
Frenkie de Jong is not an attacking player at all. Barca is trying to make him one, which is why he's dogshit at the moment. He does not like to attack the box whatsoever. He likes to receive the ball from the defense and transition it to the attackers (attacking midfielders).

Even more wrong is the "high risk high reward" remark. He's not high rist at all (unless you consider the dribbling high rist). He's not the guy that makes the final through ball or shoots on goal, he's purely transitional.

He's a defender much more than an attacker, which is why he played as a central defender for Ajax quite a lot. I'm sure his numbers at Barca at the moment point the otherway, but that's because they want him to be an attacker and he's trying (and failing) to be one. Frenkie de Jong is a defensive midfielder in a (not sure this is the correct term) double pivot. With a stronger tackler beside him and a creative force or number 8 (Ziyech or Donny at Ajax) in front of him.

Ah this dude actually says this as well later on. Still, he's not as much an attacker as he says. At all.

edit: wait maybe the twitter person isn't a dude.

Only logical conclusion; United sign him as a replacement for McTominay to play next to Fred. Would be the perfect fit for him positionally.
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I mean she's right, he *is* an attacking player in that the qualities that make him such a great player are entirely attacking in nature. But yeah, he's a player that needs to start from deep

And he's actually improved quite a lot and often been quite good for them as an off ball runner(except this season)
 
Sign him up, the naysayers are clueless. Sign him, use him correctly and laugh at Barca for their stupidity.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Sign him up, the naysayers are clueless. Sign him, use him correctly and laugh at Barca for their stupidity.
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Like that is ever going to happen. Probably will end up like VDB with our focus on relegation candidate tactics instead of actual football.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Sign him up, the naysayers are clueless. Sign him, use him correctly and laugh at Barca for their stupidity.
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I agree. He is a gem. But we wont buy him.

If used correctly and in form, he is one of the best midfielders around currently. Not surprised many can't see it.
 
Would love to see him here,makes it look easy when he's in the mood.
 
izec said:
I agree. He is a gem. But we wont buy him.

If used correctly and in form, he is one of the best midfielders around currently. Not surprised many can't see it.
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Yeah need a proper holding player first for him to really be able to flourish
 
croadyman said:
Yeah need a proper holding player first for him to really be able to flourish
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Not really, we just need 1 more midfielder that can play combination football and knows how to press. We already have VDB, just 1 more needed and it'll work.
 
I've liked this guy for a while for Barca, and Holland, even when Barca were bad he seemed to have a decent game. I think he's a consistent CM which we need, Instead of a Fred who's up and down .
 
Would be a dream signing, but also likely to forever remain a dream. My type of footballer.
 
Hope he finally finds his form and proves the naysayers wrong. Being so quick to write off such a player, you actually should watch a different sport.
 
Amazing to watch. He’d be the dream midfield signing for me but it’d never happen.
 
He’s on silly money isn’t he? Personally i hope we don’t go for anyone earning that sort of money, strip back to basics for me.
 
M Bison said:
He’s on silly money isn’t he? Personally i hope we don’t go for anyone earning that sort of money, strip back to basics for me.
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Quick Google Search and he seems to be on 10 million euro's base (gross), rising to 16 million. That fits with our wage structure.
 
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