Is anyone following first tv debate? Melenchon is so up for it, Fillon better than expected, Le Pen is just talking her usual crap, Hamon all over the place and Macron is very nervous.
French Elections 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
No forgot about it, catch up later
Fillon hasn't been good.
Fillon was dreadful. Mélenchon was great though.
Mélenchon is good when a camera is around.
Yep. Very good in debates generally speaking, but I found him particularly on form this evening.
Disappointed by Macron who spent his time saying he agreed with one candidate or another. Don't know whether it was a strategy, but ultimately, it just gave the impression he didn't have a personal position on issues and just did some pick and choose in other's policies.
I saw people say that on twitter but he did had personal positions that he expressed when he offered the solutions, he only agreed on a handful of diagnosis which is pretty normal. The only time I didn't follow him was regarding terrorism, he tried to avoid the question.
Who you voting for RiP?
Now seen bits of it and some analysis.
Apparently Le Pen wants to stop immigration altogether both legal and illegal or at least has target of 10k a year.
Wants France out of the Euro but appears to have no idea about economics.
At least Farage Gove Johnson et al were reasonable enough at lying that enough people believed them , but with Le Pen she has an expression on her face that is a give away when she is lying or in deep trouble with her speech that she may as well have a red light flashing above her head.
Apparently Le Pen wants to stop immigration altogether both legal and illegal or at least has target of 10k a year.
Wants France out of the Euro but appears to have no idea about economics.
At least Farage Gove Johnson et al were reasonable enough at lying that enough people believed them , but with Le Pen she has an expression on her face that is a give away when she is lying or in deep trouble with her speech that she may as well have a red light flashing above her head.
Interesting reading the above, I was following Marie le Conte's livetweeting and she was saying Macron was doing poorly and that she could see Fillon getting a big bounce back in his polling after his performance. So from all that I can gather that it was a 3+ hour debate where nothing really happened 
Surely that would mean leaving the EU altogether, not just the Eurozone? Not sure on France's net figures though.
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Interesting reading the above, I was following Marie le Conte's livetweeting and she was saying Macron was doing poorly and that she could see Fillon getting a big bounce back in his polling after his performance. So from all that I can gather that it was a 3+ hour debate where nothing really happened
Surely that would mean leaving the EU altogether, not just the EU? Not sure on France's net figures though.
Think Le Pen just wants to leave the world and build a big wall around France. Saw a figure of 200k but don't know if that's net or gross
http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/politiqu...eut-deja-leur-dire-merci.php?redirect_premium
That wouldn’t be great, if I understand it correctly.
That wouldn’t be great, if I understand it correctly.
Most people believe she will make the second round unless Fillon makes a remarkably unlikely recovery and that she would score between 30-40% of the votes in the second round against Macron
Apparently Macron polled as the winner (plurality wise) in polls on the debate by almost ten points, so there's that.
IIRC that's gross and I remember 190k.
The question shouldn’t be if she is making it to the second round but with which share of the vote. If she ends up around ~25%, she’ll have a hard time in the second round. If she reaches 30%+, the situation looks quite different. Nothing of what I have seen from Macron fills be with confidence. He is one of those candidates who appears fairly reasonable/electable/charming at first glance, but loses appeal when he gets too much attention. I also don’t really trust the opinion polls in this specific election. I think there are lots of reasons to assume, that they underestimate the uncertainty.
Tbf I don't think the electorate is too enamoured with anyone and the other candidates in the election are certainly against her which will sway votes away from her in the second round if she gets there, she is not a very good liar either
To be fair Marine is appealing, she intends to take everything away from foreigners and give it to french.
@Paul the Wolf
Did you here Le Pen mention two terrorists attacks that apparently happened last week? Was she talking about the junky that attacked a soldier and the kid who wanted to harm bullies?
Did you here Le Pen mention two terrorists attacks that apparently happened last week? Was she talking about the junky that attacked a soldier and the kid who wanted to harm bullies?
To be fair Marine is appealing, she intends to take everything away from foreigners and give it to french.
Hope my French nationality comes through before I get chucked out.
In the debate? So far I've only managed to hear bits of it, although this would not surprise me.
Edit: I've decided to punish myself and watch it on mytf1 this evening
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Yet more stuff coming out about Fillon
For those who want to watch the debate and understand French here is the link, warning 3h12m long and I'm 35 minutes into it
https://www.tf1.fr/tf1/elections/videos/presidentielle-grand-debat-20-mars-2017.html
https://www.tf1.fr/tf1/elections/videos/presidentielle-grand-debat-20-mars-2017.html
And more
So Le Pen's plan is to:
Reinstall all borders
Leave the EU
Leave the Euro
Limit immigration to either zero or 10000
Increase defence spending to 3% of GDP with no alliances
Remove Islamic Terrorist threat, did not specify whether that included French born people
Stop private insurance advertising to save €8bn a year
Build new prisons for 40000 more inmates
Probably something I missed but not one word of how any of this was going to be achieved.
At least she makes Farage, Gove, Davis and Johnson look like geniuses
What I want to know is how much she paid the bloke sitting behind her to nod his head for over 3 hours and how do around 26% of the people think she'd be a good president (without stating the obvious). The French will be begging François Hollande to make a comeback.
Reinstall all borders
Leave the EU
Leave the Euro
Limit immigration to either zero or 10000
Increase defence spending to 3% of GDP with no alliances
Remove Islamic Terrorist threat, did not specify whether that included French born people
Stop private insurance advertising to save €8bn a year
Build new prisons for 40000 more inmates
Probably something I missed but not one word of how any of this was going to be achieved.
At least she makes Farage, Gove, Davis and Johnson look like geniuses
What I want to know is how much she paid the bloke sitting behind her to nod his head for over 3 hours and how do around 26% of the people think she'd be a good president (without stating the obvious). The French will be begging François Hollande to make a comeback.
Yep, I was baffled no one called her out on that.
The depressing thing about that is it doesn't seem to matter anymore.
It's the same speech as Farage, he succeeded in convincing a large chunk of the the British electorate using fear, division and xenophobia as his tactics.
His advantage was that he had other people spouting similar within the Tory Party and he was as astonished as a lot of people that Leave won.
It didn't work in Holland with Wilders who was on his own and hopefully it won't work with Le Pen being on her own
There is no substance , only empty promises and no idea what to do next if and when they win. The purpose is only to destroy.
Thing is, remember when JM Le Pen made it to the deuxième tour in 2002? It was an incredible shock that the far right had gone so far, Jospin even retired if I'm not mistaken.
These days, we're relieved that people like Wilders and Le Pen will "only" get 30-40% of their country's support; it's an alarming trend that I'm really not comfortable with.
You're right that Brexit had mitigating circumstances, but look at the US! Trump's policies were as moronic/drastic as Le Pen's.
I am repeating myself, but it is a point hammering home. Assuming that the people who vote for protest candidates like Trump, Le Pen (or Brexit) are ignorant is a mistake. Many voters won’t have any illusions about Trump/Brexit/le Pen et.al, but vote for them anyway. They get votes precisely because they promise to shake things up. They voice/offer fundamental opposition, because nuanced voices just ended up repeating the same mistakes.
If Le Pen wins, its because voters are just too frustrated by the alternatives, who failed to address important/emotional topics like immigration or economic policies.
Trump’s policies – at least to this date – are NOT as extreme as what Le Pen promises. Trump communicates in very insulting/offensive/aggressive language, but his actual policies (with the exception of trade) are nowhere near as radical as people pretend.
If Le Pen wins, its because voters are just too frustrated by the alternatives, who failed to address important/emotional topics like immigration or economic policies.
Trump’s policies – at least to this date – are NOT as extreme as what Le Pen promises. Trump communicates in very insulting/offensive/aggressive language, but his actual policies (with the exception of trade) are nowhere near as radical as people pretend.
Agreed, there is an alarming trend which has prospered due to the weakness of the opposition facing them , Clinton in the USA, Corbyn in the UK and half the Tory Party, the current crop of French politicians are nothing great either but hopefully enough to see off Le Pen this time.
Agree partly with what you say but it boils down to the highlighted part, yes people vote for "something else" but to vote for something else ,the something else must have some substance and if it doesn't that's where the ignorance comes in if you take away the prejudices
I suppose at least she's being open about it.
Just noticed that Macron has taken a slight first round lead in post-debate polls. Melenchon has also leapfrogged Hamon, and Dupont-Aignan now seems to be taking further support away from Fillon.
Debates don't seem to have changed much polling wise, small boost for Macron first round.
Wonder how she'll get on if she's not got the money...