French Elections 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
This is a great read on Hollande's accidental presidency and the struggles of the PS since Mitterand - http://www.politico.eu/article/fran...little-joke-job-interview-political-obituary/
Probably won't be much new in their to our resident French folk but still, it's quick and entertaining. Also a little shocked at how he treated Royal in 2007.
Probably won't be much new in their to our resident French folk but still, it's quick and entertaining. Also a little shocked at how he treated Royal in 2007.
Where was it, a 3 star restaurant with some elitists laughing at some unfortunates while munching on caviar?I expect a positive post from Stan after Macron's last visit.
Yup while Marine and her cronies were discussing about how gas chambers are an invention.
So....Macron's wonderful is he? What makes you all so convinced about that?
This is someone who was not only a wealthy investment banker but part of Hollande's lot too i.e. same old "establishment" type of candidate as before. Admittedly he speaks well but other than that what on earth makes anyone think he'll be an improvement on what's gone before him. I just don't see it at all.
This is someone who was not only a wealthy investment banker but part of Hollande's lot too i.e. same old "establishment" type of candidate as before. Admittedly he speaks well but other than that what on earth makes anyone think he'll be an improvement on what's gone before him. I just don't see it at all.
I'm not convinced by Macron but if we use his background then we should do the same with Le Pen who is the daughter of a millionaire politician who grew up in Paris prettiest suburb.
Is Le Pen or the party formerly known as hers going to get in trouble for this taking money from the EU issue?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39733452
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39733452
Front national is the alternative. Was in France for couple of days, and got talking about the elections with some locals. They were talking about this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Gaultier
Reason enough not to vote for FN (and for all the other reasons I detest them)
Well yes, you can if you wish, but the reason I was asking about Macron is because he has just won the first round (so most popular) and he seems to be the thread favourite. He's also the only one I have heard speak.
Yeah but Le Pen is richer than Macron but at least Macron worked for it so most people don't really care about it. On the other end Le Pen is member of a negationist party, with a xenophobic discourse. Macron isn't perfect, everyone has doubts but unlike Le Pen, you can give him the benefit of doubts.
Thinking about it Macron's biggest problem is going to be that his power will be fairly limited even if he gets a good result during the parliamentary elections. He'll struggle to get any of his reforms done.
You keep mentioning Le Pen but he took the highest percentage of votes when there were 4 candidates. So again, what is it that everyone sees in him that made him the best of 4 candidates? I am assuming it was because he is a centrist....that is to say there is the least opposition to him because his views (policies) are bland. Can't see any other reason he would appeal. Of course I may be missing something about him.
It depends, he intends to use presidential ordinances and it is rumored that his prime minister will be a member of the republicans, I guess that it will be someone close to Juppé who is pretty close to center right.
Not everyone sees in him the best candidates though, he finished first because some people compared him with the others and preferred him. But he only got a quarter of the votes.
As for why, some like his economical program others like his position from a social standpoint, others were against Fillon or Hamon or Mélenchon.
Do you think he's quite likely to steer clear of the assembly elections, saying he'll just work with whatever he's given? Or try and influence it in some way?
En Marche will be/is a political party and they are presenting 577 candidates, so the goal is to take the assembly.
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Oh wow, that had completely passed me by!
I didn’t know that. Thats interesting.
I should have said "could be" more than "will be", even though the Republicans are favorite for the legislatives, so it's highly likely. I imagine that it will depend on the results of the legislative elections.
I'm not good with these things. The legislative are a lot more partisan than the presidential, so I guess that a lot of people who voted for Le Pen during the presidential will vote for their traditional party but if I was to bet I would say 15% max, so between 80-90 seats out of 577.
It's probably a gross overestimation though.
I have no idea but I would have thought people would vote for their traditional party.
I was thinking back to the 2002 election when JM Le Pen came second in the presidential elections and was only 3% behind Chirac in the first round vote but 64% behind in the second round vote and they ended up with no seats.
I know times have changed and mood is a bit different but ..
You are probably right, even in 2012 their relatively big score gave them 2 seats if I'm not mistaken. I'm also probably completely off the mark because I didn't took "Les insoumis" into account and my skepticism concerning the PS blurs my mind. So yeah 15% is over the top.
I still see a big influx though.
The two round system should block them in most places though, right? Depends how their vote is distributed I suppose and how the likely rise in votes for the Republicans and fall for the PS will affect them.
Yes they had 2 seats. Yes I would expect a big increase but all the main parties should still do far better.
I'm not a fan of his politics but I'll certainly take it over Le Pen.
So the FN have another interim leader, not bad, three leaders in a week, are you UKIP in disguise?
Circumstances gave him free reign all the way from center left to center right. Fillon had it in the bag until the scandals broke through and is far away from center, Hamon is quite far left, offers little alternative to Mélenchon and couldn't even unite his party around him.
As the PS and LR lost credit among the population there was little other alternatives than Macron if you were anything close to moderate.
Luc Besson, film director's view of Le Pen
THE GREAT ILLUSION
Dear compatriots, friends, and brothers,
My name is Luc B. I'm 57 years old, French, married, and father of five beautiful children.
I don't belong to a particular community, party or union.
I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I've never done drugs.
I do work, however, and have done since the age of 17.
I work for my company, family and country.
All in all, I'm a regular citizen.
I have a sense of belonging to the French people, and I'm proud of it.
I speak out today because I owe it to myself to denounce the wonderful scam that we are on the verge of falling for.
The scammed
We are the scammed.
Sentimental folks, yearning for ideals, strung along by fine words, tired of believing, revolted by unkept promises.
Weakened, disillusioned, an easy prey—like a wounded animal alone in the jungle.
Blinded by our tears, we are the perfect target for hawkers selling flowers at church doors or handkerchieves at cemetery gates.
Our anxiety exposes us, makes us vulnerable. We'll listen to anything that brings a moment's relief. It's the best possible time to abuse our confidence, and it's the con artists' cue to make their entrance.
The scammer
There are two of them, operating a pincer movement: the Le Pen family and the Front National.
Let's consider the Le Pen family for a moment.
Firstly, there's the father, for whom the Holocaust is a detail, racism is a lilting tune, and foreigners are vermin. He says he's from the superior, white race, but the more he talks, the more I dream of being black.
About forty years ago, he started the family business trading in fascism, racism and xenophobia.
He also owns a record label that, not so long ago, was still claiming royalties on Nazi songs.
The firm also specializes in verbal and physical excesses, and provocative remarks. The French sometimes have short memories, however. Who remembers the Algerian-bashing gangs of the 1980s? Who remembers the young Arab thrown into the Seine, who later died of his injuries? Never forget, or else one day it's you who'll be forgotten.
Drained by such tireless activity, the father handed the business onto his daughter, Marine, who now claims to be “the candidate of the people”, “the anti-Establishment candidate.” What a joke! Marine is an heiress, raised in wealth and luxury in Saint-Cloud, a well-heeled suburb of Paris.
She has never really worked in her life: neither in a company, nor in a factory, and definitely not on a farm. She has never contributed to France's growth, and has never created any jobs (except fake ones apparently). She is, in reality, the perfect representative of the Establishment she denounces, living off handouts from Brussels, and exploiting the system in every possible way to her advantage.
How can you claim to be the “candidate of the people” without ever working for or with the people? And how can you declare your opposition to the “system” while milking it for all it's worth for decades?
Then there's the Front National: a nice little business, whose upper echelons comprise the elite of French fascism. I have read the 144 points in their manifesto for the presidential elections. Three or four points are worthy of discussion, around fifty are inapplicable, and the rest is electoral fluff. You'll be told what you want to hear just so long as you vote for them. The Front National proposes reestablishing hard borders and deporting foreigners, so it's just us in our own little world. Keeping it in the family, in a way.
When and where in history has turning in on oneself had positive results? Never. Withdrawal brings isolation. Isolation leads to totalitarianism. Totalitarianism spawns fascism. Fascism results in war. Five thousand years of history are there as proof, and the little Saint-Cloud heiress cannot change history.
The scam
We're dealing with professionals, so the scam is two-pronged.
France holds regular elections. Seeing as campaign expenses are reimbursed by the “system,” there is money to be made. The FN puts up a swathe of inexperienced candidates, with no chance of winning of course, but no matter—the FN brand is strong enough the make it over the barrier of 5% of the vote that entitles the party to reimbursement by the “system.” Inflating campaign expenses grows the amount that is reimbursed.
That's how the Front National pockets several million euros at every election (see the excellent France 2 report on the subject). Concurrently, the Front National tops up revenue by ensuring its leaders are paid by Brussels (the “system”). For all this to work, winning 5% of the vote is essential. So the brand needs to be strong. Brand image is developed similarly to that of any company operating in the derided “system.” Publicity and PR stunts are crucial. The window dressing is updated and improved to attract new customers. Slow-motion pictures of Captain Le Pen are posted, at the helm of her yacht, her hair blowing in the wind. Even the Front National name is changed to Bleu Marine. A flower is chosen as the logo.
Her hair is trimmed, her teeth whitened, and her wardrobe revitalized. And, every day, carefully crafted talking points are spouted by the party's leaders across every form of media to reach every potential customer.
Can you feel the scam coming together? Special offer—real bargain—factory price?
An action of humanization to make it acceptable? However, (by definition) the devil is the devil and when he pretends to change it’s to abuse us better.
Next, the father is ditched as too divisive, although his six million euros are still accepted for the campaign. Give her another five minutes, and she'll be telling us she's no longer a member of the Front National.
To complete the candidate's makeover, a few reassuring slogans are dreamed up, such as Une France apaisée (A Soothed France). Seriously? Who are you trying to kid? It's like Volkswagen using environmental arguments to sell its cars, which are five times more polluting than modern standards. “Soothed”? By dividing the country? By criticizing those who are different? Diversity is an opportunity, a strength. It is hope, not a scourge.
“The foreigners are to blame,” chant the FN's leaders. It's easy to lay the blame for everything on “others.” Personally, I would like to thank all the North Africans, Spaniards, Portuguese, Senegalese and other foreigners who defended our country, then built our roads, bridges, hospitals...
Thank you to our foreign friends for preserving our country's liberty and beauty.
And thank you to all those countries that take in two and a half million of our French compatriots, who are able to live overseas without being pointed at and stigmatized.
Let's not be taken in. All these easy slogans are intended solely to get our votes because the only thing that interests the Le Pen family and its gang of extremists is “dough, bills, moolah, loot, cheese, shmoney” as mentioned by Audiard.
It's my job to fabricate dreams and bring them to people, but we're not fooling anyone: we tell stories that may be funny or sad, and although we try to make them truthfully, with love and hard work, we never claim that they are real life. I think I can tell a good script and a good actor when I see one.
The film Ms. Le Pen has put together for us is just awful. The script doesn't make sense and it has terrible actors playing not just the lead but also the supporting roles. At a farmers market, for example, Ms. Le Pen tries to make eye contact with the camera at just the right angle before she flashes her publicity-hungry smile. Worst of all, her gaze is miles away. She doesn't give a hoot about the butcher's or farmer's problems. She isn't listening. She's an actress out to steal the scene, forgetting her partner. The art of acting is to infuse an imaginary situation with truth. Ms. Le Pen gets the basics all wrong—in a real situation, she delivers zero truth. Her eyes are devoid of love, compassion or emotion. Her performance is embarrassing.
The audience doesn't interest her. She just wants to make sure she has top billing.
That's the scam I felt I had to denounce. There is no truth in what she is doing, just the urge to pick a dying man's pockets. We are all outraged that three million people in France are unemployed, and another nine million people live in poverty. I feel terrible for our farmers, craftsmen and workers. They are our compatriots, our brothers and sisters.
Ms. Le Pen will not save them. On the contrary, her policies will only drive these numbers, and our distress, upward. Only we can truly do something about it, because we are the French people. Dignified and united. It is our civic duty, as laid out in our constitution. Fraternity is not a slogan, it is in our DNA.
Let's look after our country, let's open up, let's transcend ourselves, and let's show the snake oil sellers that they have no place among us. Let's show the rest of the world what it really means to be French. We are an open, courageous and fraternal people that has no need of two-bit ideology to get by. A great people grows even greater by supporting and reaching out to others.
The world is watching. History is waiting.
To the polls, citizens!
Luc Besson
Dear compatriots, friends, and brothers,
My name is Luc B. I'm 57 years old, French, married, and father of five beautiful children.
I don't belong to a particular community, party or union.
I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I've never done drugs.
I do work, however, and have done since the age of 17.
I work for my company, family and country.
All in all, I'm a regular citizen.
I have a sense of belonging to the French people, and I'm proud of it.
I speak out today because I owe it to myself to denounce the wonderful scam that we are on the verge of falling for.
The scammed
We are the scammed.
Sentimental folks, yearning for ideals, strung along by fine words, tired of believing, revolted by unkept promises.
Weakened, disillusioned, an easy prey—like a wounded animal alone in the jungle.
Blinded by our tears, we are the perfect target for hawkers selling flowers at church doors or handkerchieves at cemetery gates.
Our anxiety exposes us, makes us vulnerable. We'll listen to anything that brings a moment's relief. It's the best possible time to abuse our confidence, and it's the con artists' cue to make their entrance.
The scammer
There are two of them, operating a pincer movement: the Le Pen family and the Front National.
Let's consider the Le Pen family for a moment.
Firstly, there's the father, for whom the Holocaust is a detail, racism is a lilting tune, and foreigners are vermin. He says he's from the superior, white race, but the more he talks, the more I dream of being black.
About forty years ago, he started the family business trading in fascism, racism and xenophobia.
He also owns a record label that, not so long ago, was still claiming royalties on Nazi songs.
The firm also specializes in verbal and physical excesses, and provocative remarks. The French sometimes have short memories, however. Who remembers the Algerian-bashing gangs of the 1980s? Who remembers the young Arab thrown into the Seine, who later died of his injuries? Never forget, or else one day it's you who'll be forgotten.
Drained by such tireless activity, the father handed the business onto his daughter, Marine, who now claims to be “the candidate of the people”, “the anti-Establishment candidate.” What a joke! Marine is an heiress, raised in wealth and luxury in Saint-Cloud, a well-heeled suburb of Paris.
She has never really worked in her life: neither in a company, nor in a factory, and definitely not on a farm. She has never contributed to France's growth, and has never created any jobs (except fake ones apparently). She is, in reality, the perfect representative of the Establishment she denounces, living off handouts from Brussels, and exploiting the system in every possible way to her advantage.
How can you claim to be the “candidate of the people” without ever working for or with the people? And how can you declare your opposition to the “system” while milking it for all it's worth for decades?
Then there's the Front National: a nice little business, whose upper echelons comprise the elite of French fascism. I have read the 144 points in their manifesto for the presidential elections. Three or four points are worthy of discussion, around fifty are inapplicable, and the rest is electoral fluff. You'll be told what you want to hear just so long as you vote for them. The Front National proposes reestablishing hard borders and deporting foreigners, so it's just us in our own little world. Keeping it in the family, in a way.
When and where in history has turning in on oneself had positive results? Never. Withdrawal brings isolation. Isolation leads to totalitarianism. Totalitarianism spawns fascism. Fascism results in war. Five thousand years of history are there as proof, and the little Saint-Cloud heiress cannot change history.
The scam
We're dealing with professionals, so the scam is two-pronged.
France holds regular elections. Seeing as campaign expenses are reimbursed by the “system,” there is money to be made. The FN puts up a swathe of inexperienced candidates, with no chance of winning of course, but no matter—the FN brand is strong enough the make it over the barrier of 5% of the vote that entitles the party to reimbursement by the “system.” Inflating campaign expenses grows the amount that is reimbursed.
That's how the Front National pockets several million euros at every election (see the excellent France 2 report on the subject). Concurrently, the Front National tops up revenue by ensuring its leaders are paid by Brussels (the “system”). For all this to work, winning 5% of the vote is essential. So the brand needs to be strong. Brand image is developed similarly to that of any company operating in the derided “system.” Publicity and PR stunts are crucial. The window dressing is updated and improved to attract new customers. Slow-motion pictures of Captain Le Pen are posted, at the helm of her yacht, her hair blowing in the wind. Even the Front National name is changed to Bleu Marine. A flower is chosen as the logo.
Her hair is trimmed, her teeth whitened, and her wardrobe revitalized. And, every day, carefully crafted talking points are spouted by the party's leaders across every form of media to reach every potential customer.
Can you feel the scam coming together? Special offer—real bargain—factory price?
An action of humanization to make it acceptable? However, (by definition) the devil is the devil and when he pretends to change it’s to abuse us better.
Next, the father is ditched as too divisive, although his six million euros are still accepted for the campaign. Give her another five minutes, and she'll be telling us she's no longer a member of the Front National.
To complete the candidate's makeover, a few reassuring slogans are dreamed up, such as Une France apaisée (A Soothed France). Seriously? Who are you trying to kid? It's like Volkswagen using environmental arguments to sell its cars, which are five times more polluting than modern standards. “Soothed”? By dividing the country? By criticizing those who are different? Diversity is an opportunity, a strength. It is hope, not a scourge.
“The foreigners are to blame,” chant the FN's leaders. It's easy to lay the blame for everything on “others.” Personally, I would like to thank all the North Africans, Spaniards, Portuguese, Senegalese and other foreigners who defended our country, then built our roads, bridges, hospitals...
Thank you to our foreign friends for preserving our country's liberty and beauty.
And thank you to all those countries that take in two and a half million of our French compatriots, who are able to live overseas without being pointed at and stigmatized.
Let's not be taken in. All these easy slogans are intended solely to get our votes because the only thing that interests the Le Pen family and its gang of extremists is “dough, bills, moolah, loot, cheese, shmoney” as mentioned by Audiard.
It's my job to fabricate dreams and bring them to people, but we're not fooling anyone: we tell stories that may be funny or sad, and although we try to make them truthfully, with love and hard work, we never claim that they are real life. I think I can tell a good script and a good actor when I see one.
The film Ms. Le Pen has put together for us is just awful. The script doesn't make sense and it has terrible actors playing not just the lead but also the supporting roles. At a farmers market, for example, Ms. Le Pen tries to make eye contact with the camera at just the right angle before she flashes her publicity-hungry smile. Worst of all, her gaze is miles away. She doesn't give a hoot about the butcher's or farmer's problems. She isn't listening. She's an actress out to steal the scene, forgetting her partner. The art of acting is to infuse an imaginary situation with truth. Ms. Le Pen gets the basics all wrong—in a real situation, she delivers zero truth. Her eyes are devoid of love, compassion or emotion. Her performance is embarrassing.
The audience doesn't interest her. She just wants to make sure she has top billing.
That's the scam I felt I had to denounce. There is no truth in what she is doing, just the urge to pick a dying man's pockets. We are all outraged that three million people in France are unemployed, and another nine million people live in poverty. I feel terrible for our farmers, craftsmen and workers. They are our compatriots, our brothers and sisters.
Ms. Le Pen will not save them. On the contrary, her policies will only drive these numbers, and our distress, upward. Only we can truly do something about it, because we are the French people. Dignified and united. It is our civic duty, as laid out in our constitution. Fraternity is not a slogan, it is in our DNA.
Let's look after our country, let's open up, let's transcend ourselves, and let's show the snake oil sellers that they have no place among us. Let's show the rest of the world what it really means to be French. We are an open, courageous and fraternal people that has no need of two-bit ideology to get by. A great people grows even greater by supporting and reaching out to others.
The world is watching. History is waiting.
To the polls, citizens!
Luc Besson
So Le Pen has quietly dropped her pledge to exit the euro and backed away from calling an EU referendum within six months as they were losing her support. Integrity,
She'd marry a terrorist if it meant she became president, do not believe a single word that comes out of her mouth.
I think the French people are more intelligent that us lot.
Think they've seen what a feck up we've made and the tide of anti-EU feeling across Europe is falling away.
Wtf is this I thought this election was all over?
Second round next sunday
@JPRouve @Paul the Wolf
It might be a bit too early but could you recommend a source for polls that deal with the election of the parliament later this spring? (It is in spring, isn't it?) I'm most interested in how much the FN could expect but also how much En Marche might get.
Many TIA.
It might be a bit too early but could you recommend a source for polls that deal with the election of the parliament later this spring? (It is in spring, isn't it?) I'm most interested in how much the FN could expect but also how much En Marche might get.
Many TIA.
French Election consists of two rounds. In first round they whittle the candidates down to two and in second round - which is a few weeks after first round - the people vote from the two candidates.
The Legislatives are on the 11th and 18th June, two rounds as per the presidentials.
The current number of seats out of 577 are 2 for FN and 0 for En Marche so could be anyone's guess.
Personally don't think FN will get many, no idea how many EM will get but believe the will be UMP, Mélenchon and PS will get a lot between them
As for polls I look in different places but one site seems to summarise the lot as below
http://www.linternaute.com/actualit...e-2eme-tour/#resultat-election-presidentielle
Legislative polls don't usually come out until after the Presidency is decided I think?
Wiki is usually a pretty good all round collator, so check back here from next week - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_legislative_election,_2017
Wiki is usually a pretty good all round collator, so check back here from next week - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_legislative_election,_2017