Just kidding. No combination of our 3 central midfielders is good enough, Fred shows some better signs when he's further up the pitch but when we're under pressure I don't back him to protect the defense.
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Just kidding. No combination of our 3 central midfielders is good enough, Fred shows some better signs when he's further up the pitch but when we're under pressure I don't back him to protect the defense.
Agree.
Just kidding. No combination of our 3 central midfielders is good enough, Fred shows some better signs when he's further up the pitch but when we're under pressure I don't back him to protect the defense.
Agree. I think Bruno gets a free pass too as people forget he is actually playing in midfield and not upfront.
Who ever scouted this guy I thought he was worth 50million knows as much about football as I do about building space craft.
Simple enough. He’s the only one actually going into central areas to win the ball back or progress the ball against 2/3 opposition players, in that context his passes are going to be risky because he’s outmanned every time. Matic isn’t usually progressive in his passing at all. Runs forward ten yards and passes it back 5 or sideways 5. Bruno is gone up the pitch when Fred gets on the ball because he knows Fred is the only midfielder who can actually hit him. Ideally in a balanced midfield if someone like Fred hits a stray pass there is an organised press to get it back asap and turn it into another attack for us. The problem is there isn’t and it often turns into a counter attack.
He’s creative enough and he breaks up enough play to be worth his spot in most pressing teams. More creative than most other central midfielders in the league this season and his pressing (which is supposedly what we are working towards now) is obviously effective. The problem Is asking one player to do it all alone game after game and he stands out a mile. It makes him look kamikaze to be fair. I totally understand that but he’s being misused
I didn’t realise you had the ability to preempt my thoughts in an alternate universe.
I am not alluding anything, its a fact that he made a square pass for Bruno’s goal. Stop trying to read more than what is written. If you think that was a passable performance from Fred then we have very different expectations from a United midfielder.
Does Fred statistically give the ball away more than others, does anyone have that data? I think Fred has the most touches and retention is pretty much above average (around 86-88%). I'm guessing it's not how many, it's more it tends to be a particular brain fart way he'll do it, that you remember.
Yep, it's a skill of mine and it's the inference then in the context of how it was wrote to emphasis your point. You know Utd over the decades have many sorts of midfielders of different qualities and abilities don't you? Maybe you should poise that question to every single manager since he was bought as despite the fans opinion, he plays. Strange that how such a shite player seems to pull the wool over their eyes. Maybe the Brazilian coach too eh?
To demonstrate my ability to preempt further thoughts, the new manager will play Fred also.....
He has to go. He’s a complete liability far too often.
Several times today, especially in the 2nd half, it was noticeable that when Villa were building from the back, Fred was pressing really high - virtually joining Cavani in a front 2, with Bruno dropping deeper.
Not sure what to make of it, but I thought it was interesting. Had a look at a player avg position map and he actually shows as the deepest midfielder, which kind of demonstrates how much ground he was covering.
On the ball he's obviously deficient, but I do wonder if we're tasking him with so much running that it's also perpetuating his technical flaws. He's busting a lung all over the place, it's got to be hard to switch from that mindset to being composed when in receipt of the ball. I'd be curious to see the distance covered stats but I can't find a site that shows this.
Not sure what to make of it, but I thought it was interesting. Had a look at a player avg position map and he actually shows as the deepest midfielder, which kind of demonstrates how much ground he was covering.
On the ball he's obviously deficient, but I do wonder if we're tasking him with so much running that it's also perpetuating his technical flaws. He's busting a lung all over the place, it's got to be hard to switch from that mindset to being composed when in receipt of the ball. I'd be curious to see the distance covered stats but I can't find a site that shows this.
I don't know why are you complaining. After De Gea and Bruno for me he was our best player. Well positioned, fighting a lot, recovering important balls. In reality for the high intensity football that United want to play I think he is the only player prepared for it. If we had more players as balanced as Fred we would be in a better position. Give me Fred and Elanga in the starting eleven before players like Greenwod or Rashford that don’t work enough and have zero end product.
I don't get the criticism.
Yeah he got dribbled past, but that happens all the time with Scotty as well.
At least Fred doesn't need to take 5 touches to control a football and has some pace on him.
Yeah he got dribbled past, but that happens all the time with Scotty as well.
At least Fred doesn't need to take 5 touches to control a football and has some pace on him.
He's done that the whole time under Ralph
No he takes 1 and the opposition press his poor touch and pinch the ball from him
We played 4222 until this week so no, Fred wasn't pushing up to press in a front 2. He was pressing high as he always does of course, but today was markedly different, he was right up with Cavani. It was even different to the FA Cup, where Bruno was far higher, and Fred not so high.
Yes he was, noticed it from his first game under Ralph
Agreed. The support for him showed that virtually any United player will have their defenders among the fanbase regardless of what they do.
Thought he played fairly well today
No denying, always been one for the underdog but so many fans and pundits alike say he's rubbish, think he's a championship player or worse. Today again, lots of negative views which I know are further fuelled cause we drew from a leading position.
If Fred is as bad as people believe, why would managers consistently pick him? I get the Scott thing, 'one of own' etc but that's not Fred. He's no fan fav, shirt seller or even if he was American either yet consistently he plays. When Ole left, Carrick played him and he spoke about his value to the team. When RR came in, if fit he's played him too. I know international football can be different but he's force his way into the most high profile team where fans and media pressure makes a massive difference.
If I was the Utd manager and the pressure to win, why would I constantly play a player that most think cost us games? If he was championship level, then surely I can replace him with pretty much any DM from the bottom half of the table? Wouldn't RR just pick a player from the German league for peanuts?
Joking aside, it doesn't make sense if he is as bad as some think?
If Fred is as bad as people believe, why would managers consistently pick him? I get the Scott thing, 'one of own' etc but that's not Fred. He's no fan fav, shirt seller or even if he was American either yet consistently he plays. When Ole left, Carrick played him and he spoke about his value to the team. When RR came in, if fit he's played him too. I know international football can be different but he's force his way into the most high profile team where fans and media pressure makes a massive difference.
If I was the Utd manager and the pressure to win, why would I constantly play a player that most think cost us games? If he was championship level, then surely I can replace him with pretty much any DM from the bottom half of the table? Wouldn't RR just pick a player from the German league for peanuts?
Joking aside, it doesn't make sense if he is as bad as some think?
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But the fans don't pick the team, we have had 4 managers if you include Carrick who have picked him? It's not just the fan base then....
He wasn't that bad
Not sure why he didnt get subbed when he was clearly struggling. His unforced errors become more prominent when he is completely gassed. Its a suicide to keep him on then but he rarely gets hooked
He is so bad, but I still can't decide who is worst out of him and McTomminay.
Scott is smarter though, he doesn't get half involved and offers himself for the ball as Fred do because he knows his limitations and he knows how to please fans, even if he id equally bad quality wise. But Fred doesn't help himself.
There is really strong argument here that we are bottom 5 team when it comes to midfield quality.
Scott is smarter though, he doesn't get half involved and offers himself for the ball as Fred do because he knows his limitations and he knows how to please fans, even if he id equally bad quality wise. But Fred doesn't help himself.
There is really strong argument here that we are bottom 5 team when it comes to midfield quality.
So I'll ask again, why does ever manager play him including RR if he is so bad? With all the pressure that comes with managing Utd, why would you play him if he'll cost you games? If he's that bad, it makes him easier to replace?
Not sure how strong your argument is tbh. If the games are won and lost in midfield, then they are in the bottom 5 for good reason. McFred aren't going to win you the Prem but they have already proved they get you top 3 and finals ...
Who will he play if not him and Scott? There's literally no one else to play there. Fred was dropped ever since Ralf came here from what I know, but he has no one else at the moment.
McFred alone surely didn't bring us top3 and finals, we also had Pogba, younger Matic and in form Bruno. And we were equally bad last year in controlling the games, but we played very defensive football relied on counter attack
He's just terrible.
Maybe post some stats that prove VDB is a better midfielder?
Stats don't lie after all.
Because once again he got jogged past in the lead up to the goal
He is an absolute weakness in the middle, not the only one but part of the problem non the less
I’m with you but rDoes it matter who is worse? Both poor and both should be at best squad players
this is our problem now, mediocre players and now people in here use it as a way to promote a player
For example “atleast fred isn’t as bad as….”
it’s god awful having them both at the club
Fred leading the press was a good idea if you don't notice that his CM partner was Matic and out of breath for the whole half.
Once Fred was taken out far up in the field, the middle was free for all. Not that we were solid with both of them in their own positions. But, yeah leaving Matic way too deep with Fred way to high was a weird tactical plan especially not reworking it after we were luckily 2 -0 up with about 20 mins to go.
Once Fred was taken out far up in the field, the middle was free for all. Not that we were solid with both of them in their own positions. But, yeah leaving Matic way too deep with Fred way to high was a weird tactical plan especially not reworking it after we were luckily 2 -0 up with about 20 mins to go.
I know people say that, but I've heard the same under every manager including RR. Fred dropped, don't think so he's played as many games as everyone else plus was out when he had COVID.
Not suggesting they won it alone but pretty much every game against the top teams inc CL, they played if fit. Younger Matic, how many years you going back? Pogs, how many games does he play a season?
I'm not saying they are the answer but not sure why people think buying new CM solves the problem. It seems the fans and pundits think that's the problem yet the managers don't. If there is no one else to play and they are that bad, then surely they are easy to replace?
Not sure why Ralf kept Matic on for NINETY minutes today. He was gassed from half-time, leaving Fred to do both the pressing up top and ball recovery in the middle. We used our subs in min 88 - management's fault today for turning a win into a draw. Apart from Fred & Elanga most of the players were dead from min 75 including old man Cavani.
There are none, unlike other players, with Fred the eyes just don't lie.
A whole team was jogged past for both goals. So mch happened between Fred and the net bulging and that's our problem.
Where was matic who was the deeper CM? being jogged pass to cross for Coutinho's goal that's where. Varane also didn't cover himself with glory by missing the cross. We are team that cannot defend as a team - we keep trying to blame one player when in a good team, others cover and someone stops that from even being crossed.
We persist with playing two man midfields then handicap that even more by playing matic an entire game. We were always going to be overrun near the end with no changes to that.
We need to get rid of all these mediocre players in midfield and get 4 new midfielders in the summer
Who else can they pick? McTominay is OK and Matic plays like a Great Dane racing Greyhounds.
How could he have pushed up to create a front 2, if we already had a front 2?
Take off your fred tinted glasses because he's a nice guy or he tries his best bla bla or whatever. Ffs wake up we are man united if you think this tool is anywhere near adequate you need to wise the feck up. Guy is shite, stick your soft spot for him where the monkeys put their nuts you are foolish blow ins. Standards
I’d say it’s more than a strong argument. It’s factual. I blame all of our managers for it. They’ve allowed the most important part of our team to become the weakest part of our team.
I look at villas midfield today and even with their best player McGinn out, both Ramsey and Luiz are better than anything we put out. It’s an absolute disgrace that nobody at this club is pulling their finger out and bringing in a midfield player. They’re so many available and affordable yet we persist with McTominay, Fred and Matic. I’ve said this before but most people on the cafe know better than any of our recent managers, ceo’s or whoever the feck it is who decides our transfers and this is why we will just constantly fail as a football club.
He pushed up past other players to be our 2nd furthest forward while the other players fell back. Its pretty simple, can you count to 2?
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