[Cassidy]

Well this is something that changes of course. When I looked at the figures last summer, the figures were almost identical.

Just looked on Wiki:

Pogba - 127 games/28 goals
Kevin - 176 games/42 goals

Obviously Kevin’s is better, but there isn’t that much in it.

Kevin is better and there is much in it. He is a much better player than Pogba when you consider all their attributes. He would have a Bruno affect on this team if we dropped him in it.

The main things he has on Pogba is decision making, technique especially shooting, balance and his agility. Oh he also has a much better engine too.

 

[AgentSmith]

Well this is something that changes of course. When I looked at the figures last summer, the figures were almost identical.

Just looked on Wiki:

Pogba - 127 games/28 goals
Kevin - 176 games/42 goals

Obviously Kevin’s is better, but there isn’t that much in it.

Why did you not say originally you were only comparing their Premier League goals then?

You’ve narrowed the parameters to the most favourable ones to Pogba to try and justify your original position without saying you were doing that. And he still lags behind despite the claim they’re ‘identical’.

Why would goals in other competitions and assists in all competitions not factor into a comparison between two attacking no.8s?

Well it’s obvious - it doesn’t make for a viable comparison between Pogba and De Bruyne. Same as comparing Fred to prime Kante.

 

[Rozay]

Kevin is better and there is much in it. He is a much better player than Pogba when you consider all their attributes. He would have a Bruno affect on this team if we dropped him in it.

The main things he has on Pogba is decision making, technique especially shooting, balance and his agility. Oh he also has a much better engine too.

I have no issue with anyone thinking Kevin is better. I have no issue with anyone thinking Kanté is better than Fred. But with the latter comparison especially - I can’t accept that it is a ridiculous comparison. They are almost identical players to me when I watch them.

 

[SATA]

Well this is something that changes of course. When I looked at the figures last summer, the figures were almost identical.

Just looked on Wiki:

Pogba - 127 games/28 goals
Kevin - 176 games/42 goals

Obviously Kevin’s is better, but there isn’t that much in it.

Mate why do you keep calling him Kevin instead of De Bruyne or just simply KDB?

 

[Cassidy]

I have no issue with anyone thinking Kevin is better. I have no issue with anyone thinking Kanté is better than Fred. But with the latter comparison especially - I can’t accept that it is a ridiculous comparison. They are almost identical players to me when I watch them.

Wait what. The latter comparison Fred and Kante? Identical players? I would actually say Pogba is closer to KDB than Fred is to Kante and by a very large margin.

 

[Rozay]

Wait what. The latter comparison Fred and Kante? Identical players? I would actually say Pogba is closer to KDB than Fred is to Kante and by a very large margin.

Fair enough, I wouldn’t.

 

[Rozay]

Mate why do you keep calling him Kevin instead of De Bruyne or just simply KDB?

His name is Kevin.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I have no issue with anyone thinking Kevin is better. I have no issue with anyone thinking Kanté is better than Fred. But with the latter comparison especially - I can’t accept that it is a ridiculous comparison. They are almost identical players to me when I watch them.

Only if we compare the worst of Kante to the best of Fred IMO. Unlike Fred, Kante has actually had seasons of phenomenal levels of performances which is something nobody can say about Fred who moves from impressive to diabolical frequently and often within the same 90 minutes.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Terrible from him. Matic wasn’t much better. So disappointing.

 

[Raven]

That was ugly as shit.

 

[Rozay]

Only if we compare the worst of Kante to the best of Fred IMO. Unlike Fred, Kante has actually had seasons of phenomenal levels of performances which is something nobody can say about Fred who moves from impressive to diabolical frequently and often within the same 90 minutes.

The ‘best of Fred’ being say, PSG away in 2019 for example? That’s as good as anything Kanté can do. What exactly is it that you guys see Kanté doing on the pitch, other than winning the ball frequently?

Fred has had a number of huge performances for us. Probably best for me to have this conversation after the next one of those. Seeing as people want to have a conversation about a comment I made a while ago after Fred has had his worst game. I doubt if Fred had snubbed us and joined City as they wanted, he’d be rated in the same way. He’s not some midfield general. He’s brilliant at pressing and winning the ball, and starting attacks with it. He also, when he’s on his game, has a little more going the other way than Kanté too for me. He plays some brilliant forward passes. Like the one to set up Rashford against Sociedad. I’m not overrating him, I think you guys are overrating Kanté. In the right set up, Kanté is brilliant. But he’s not some Roy Keane or something, and is limited in his strengths. And even his strengths hadn’t been what they were for more than a year, and were regularly questioned. Until he played well against Atletico and we started with ‘Ngolo Kanté appreciation threads’, just as we have done, and will continue to do so when Fred next puts in top performances.

 

[AgentSmith]

The ‘best of Fred’ being say, PSG away in 2019 for example? That’s as good as anything Kanté can do. What exactly is it that you guys see Kanté doing on the pitch, other than winning the ball frequently?

Fred has had a number of huge performances for us. Probably best for me to have this conversation after the next one of those. Seeing as people want to have a conversation about a comment I made a while ago after Fred has had his worst game. I doubt if Fred had snubbed us and joined City as they wanted, he’d be rated in the same way. He’s not some midfield general. He’s brilliant at pressing and winning the ball, and starting attacks with it. He also, when he’s on his game, has a little more going the other way than Kanté too for me. He plays some brilliant forward passes. Like the one to set up Rashford against Sociedad. I’m not overrating him, I think you guys are overrating Kanté. In the right set up, Kanté is brilliant. But he’s not some Roy Keane or something, and is limited in his strengths. And even his strengths hadn’t been what they were for more than a year, and were regularly questioned. Until he played well against Atletico and we started with ‘Ngolo Kanté appreciation threads’, just as we have done, and will continue to do so when Fred next puts in top performances.

‘Seasons of phenomenal performances’ was the point put to you. Fred has never produced a phenomenal season while Kante has. More than once.

Using individual games where he’s been brilliant to highlight the strengths of Fred misses the point that Kante has performed at that same level consistently across an entire season.

It also hides an unfortunate truth about Fred; he’s painfully inconsistent. The AC Milan game illustrated this perfectly. He might be brilliant against PSG away but then he’s the worst player on the pitch against Leicester away.

For what it’s worth Kante is also having a better year statistically than Fred despite playing in a worse team who changed manager half way through the season. More tackles, more clearances, more assists, more passes, and less fouls than Fred.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The ‘best of Fred’ being say, PSG away in 2019 for example? That’s as good as anything Kanté can do. What exactly is it that you guys see Kanté doing on the pitch, other than winning the ball frequently?

Yeah over the odd game. Even Lee Cattermole can match Kante over one game. Doesn't mean he's a top class midfielder like Kante has been over multiple title winning seasons.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

‘Seasons of phenomenal performances’ was the point put to you. Fred has never produced a phenomenal season while Kante has. More than once.

Using individual games where he’s been brilliant to highlight the strengths of Fred misses the point that Kante has performed at that same level consistently across an entire season.

It also hides an unfortunate truth about Fred; he’s painfully inconsistent. The AC Milan game illustrated this perfectly. He might be brilliant against PSG away but then he’s the worst player on the pitch against Leicester away.

For what it’s worth Kante is also having a better year statistically than Fred despite playing in a worse team who changed manager half way through the season. More tackles, more clearances, more assists, more passes, and less fouls than Fred.

Exactly. Fred can have good games where he looks an impressive footballer. If he was 19 years old I'd fancy him as the next big CM talent at OT like Anderson was. However in reality everything about him is in inconsistent and has a lack of reliable application and execution. Kante's limitations on the ball have been exposed in recent years in teams that haven't suited him. But he has been a crucial part of title winning and WC winning sides.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Freds a footballer with a good ceiling, a mediocre average and a rock bottom floor

At best he'll give you a 8/10 maybe 5 times a season

6/10 in the majority of games

And between a 1-3/10 in about 8+ games

Also he is erratic as hell. Take the AC game. Honestly a 2/10 in the first half. Absolutely terrible. Second half he was good. Solid 7/10. Thing is though he nearly cost us in that first half. And then against Leicester he did cost us

Simply not good enough all things considered. Never seen a DM at top level with a touch so all over the place.

 

[Rozay]

Exactly. Fred can have good games where he looks an impressive footballer. If he was 19 years old I'd fancy him as the next big CM talent at OT like Anderson was. However in reality everything about him is in inconsistent and has a lack of reliable application and execution. Kante's limitations on the ball have been exposed in recent years in teams that haven't suited him. But he has been a crucial part of title winning and WC winning sides.

Key differentiation again comes down to team having won the title. Too much stock in general is put into things like that on individual player analysis. It is skewed. Players whose teams win are looked at almost exclusively for their positives. Players at a team that is considered to underachieve are all looked at from the prism of what they can do better. Kanté wouldn’t have been a title winner if he were at United for 5 years, and he wouldn’t be seen as good as he is, and my view on that won’t change as a result of any debate, so I’ll leave it here.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Key differentiation again comes down to team having won the title. Too much stock in general is put into things like that on individual player analysis. It is skewed. Players whose teams win are looked at almost exclusively for their positives. Players at a team that is considered to underachieve are all looked at from the prism of what they can do better. Kanté wouldn’t have been a title winner if he were at United for 5 years, and he wouldn’t be seen as good as he is, and my view on that won’t change as a result of any debate, so I’ll leave it here.

He'd have been better than Fred though and would be one of our shining lights rather than being.. well, Fred. Thing is, it's not that Kante played for title /WC winning teams but that he was good enough peformance wise to be a crucial player for them. Fred is not even a celebrated player for a top 4/6 Manches United team FFS.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

If Ole persists with Fred, that will be the hill he dies on. Fred is not good enough, period.

 

[Rozay]

He'd have been better than Fred though and would be one of our shining lights rather than being.. well, Fred. Thing is, it's not that Kante played for title /WC winning teams but that he was good enough peformance wise to be a crucial player for them. Fred is not even a celebrated player for a top 4/6 Manches United team FFS.

Again, where the team finishes is of little relevance to me. I’m sure half the people arguing with me can barely remember Kanté’s performances in his title winning season. Not the way they can tell you every misplaced pass Fred has played in two years. We just remember he ‘played well’. The detail of it probably becomes hazy. Maybe a couple of highlight/standout performances that stick in the memory, but I’m confident none of you recall, or give a shit about how he played at Southampton away four years ago. How many passes were misplaced etc. Kanté has had great seasons. Fred had a great season last season. It was unanimously agreed that he was playing well. But until it’s as part of a conquering team, the ‘yea but they need someone better on the ball’ always lingers.

Literally as soon as Kanté’s two title winning seasons were over, those conversations began about him too, criticism came in, when he was the same player. You say Kanté would have been one of our shining lights had he been here for 5 years, but he wouldn’t. Him playing in a United midfield finishing 5th and 6th, while winning the ball frequently and not doing much else would not be praised to the heavens. We know that because we can see that Fred doesn’t get praised to the heavens, despite winning the ball at a freakish rate. No, for a club that has had Paul Scholes, Keane and the like - Kanté would not be getting praised as much, instead the focus would be on what he doesn’t do ‘well enough’ from the opinion of those who are tasked to talk what is missing from United until they are once again the best team.

Simply put, when we were the best team, we had midfielders who did a lot of things better than Kanté. They didn’t do everything better than him, but they didn’t do everything better than Fred either, yet nobody cares. As soon as Chelsea start performing well below expectation, the same narrative starts about Kanté. The truth, as far as I see it, is that there isn’t much more there than there is with Fred. Makalele wouldn’t be praised to the heavens if he were just sitting in front of a United defence that ends ip 4th. Paul Pogba can put the ball on a sixpence left foot, right foot and create chances - but the conversation is more that he doesn’t defend well enough. Nobody cared about Scholes’ defending. And nobody would care about Pogba’s if United won trophies.

 

[bazza1988]

Really curious to know, why did pep want to sign Fred for city before we got him? Just doesn’t strike me as a player who would work in their system? Can someone explain?

 

[AgentSmith]

Again, where the team finishes is of little relevance to me. I’m sure half the people arguing with me can barely remember Kanté’s performances in his title winning season. Not the way they can tell you every misplaced pass Fred has played in two years. We just remember he ‘played well’. The detail of it probably becomes hazy. Maybe a couple of highlight/standout performances that stick in the memory, but I’m confident none of you recall, or give a shit about how he played at Southampton away four years ago. How many passes were misplaced etc. Kanté has had great seasons. Fred had a great season last season. It was unanimously agreed that he was playing well. But until it’s as part of a conquering team, the ‘yea but they need someone better on the ball’ always lingers.

Literally as soon as Kanté’s two title winning seasons were over, those conversations began about him too, criticism came in, when he was the same player. You say Kanté would have been one of our shining lights had he been here for 5 years, but he wouldn’t. Him playing in a United midfield finishing 5th and 6th, while winning the ball frequently and not doing much else would not be praised to the heavens. We know that because we can see that Fred doesn’t get praised to the heavens, despite winning the ball at a freakish rate. No, for a club that has had Paul Scholes, Keane and the like - Kanté would not be getting praised as much, instead the focus would be on what he doesn’t do ‘well enough’ from the opinion of those who are tasked to talk what is missing from United until they are once again the best team.

Simply put, when we were the best team, we had midfielders who did a lot of things better than Kanté. They didn’t do everything better than him, but they didn’t do everything better than Fred either, yet nobody cares. As soon as Chelsea start performing well below expectation, the same narrative starts about Kanté. The truth, as far as I see it, is that there isn’t much more there than there is with Fred. Makalele wouldn’t be praised to the heavens if he were just sitting in front of a United defence that ends ip 4th. Paul Pogba can put the ball on a sixpence left foot, right foot and create chances - but the conversation is more that he doesn’t defend well enough. Nobody cared about Scholes’ defending. And nobody would care about Pogba’s if United won trophies.

So what about the players who played against Kante that season?

The ones who collectively voted him the best player in the league that season.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Again, where the team finishes is of little relevance to me. I’m sure half the people arguing with me can barely remember Kanté’s performances in his title winning season. Not the way they can tell you every misplaced pass Fred has played in two years. We just remember he ‘played well’. The detail of it probably becomes hazy. Maybe a couple of highlight/standout performances that stick in the memory, but I’m confident none of you recall, or give a shit about how he played at Southampton away four years ago. How many passes were misplaced etc. Kanté has had great seasons. Fred had a great season last season. It was unanimously agreed that he was playing well. But until it’s as part of a conquering team, the ‘yea but they need someone better on the ball’ always lingers.

Literally as soon as Kanté’s two title winning seasons were over, those conversations began about him too, criticism came in, when he was the same player. You say Kanté would have been one of our shining lights had he been here for 5 years, but he wouldn’t. Him playing in a United midfield finishing 5th and 6th, while winning the ball frequently and not doing much else would not be praised to the heavens. We know that because we can see that Fred doesn’t get praised to the heavens, despite winning the ball at a freakish rate. No, for a club that has had Paul Scholes, Keane and the like - Kanté would not be getting praised as much, instead the focus would be on what he doesn’t do ‘well enough’ from the opinion of those who are tasked to talk what is missing from United until they are once again the best team.

Simply put, when we were the best team, we had midfielders who did a lot of things better than Kanté. They didn’t do everything better than him, but they didn’t do everything better than Fred either, yet nobody cares. As soon as Chelsea start performing well below expectation, the same narrative starts about Kanté. The truth, as far as I see it, is that there isn’t much more there than there is with Fred. Makalele wouldn’t be praised to the heavens if he were just sitting in front of a United defence that ends ip 4th. Paul Pogba can put the ball on a sixpence left foot, right foot and create chances - but the conversation is more that he doesn’t defend well enough. Nobody cared about Scholes’ defending. And nobody would care about Pogba’s if United won trophies.

Yes it's all an injust narrative against the incredible Fred who just can't catch a break. Let's ignore actual peformances and achievements and just pretend that Fred and Kante are the same player just becuase nobody can recall a football match 4 years ago. In fact, I think Maguire is as good as Vidic and Rio too. Becuase... vagueness and why not?

 

[Rozay]

So what about the players who played against Kante that season?

The ones who collectively voted him the best player in the league that season.

Let’s see what they say about Fred if his team wins the league. May be more of ‘he’s been a crucial part of the team’ rather than ‘Fred has actually played really well in the big games I’ve seen recently’ - which Fabregas tweeted. Fact is, Fred has lined up with, and gone toe to toe in big games with all the other top teams midfielders. He’s competed well with City, Liverpool and the like. But they have ultimately been winners and he’s been losers. The praise is always from some sort of underdog perspective. But not ‘he’s the best’. His team need to do better is the overriding thought.

Players are judged typically in relation to their team’s expectations. Unless they are in the team to score goals, then nobody can really deny as it’s a numbers game. In the last 5 or so years, none of our players get praised pretty much. We don’t have anyone make the team of the season, but players from teams that finish behind us even get more praise. That is because their teams may still be seen to have exceeded expectation. I’m almost certain that come the end of this season, Leicester will finish behind us, but more of their players and their manager will be seen to have had better seasons than ours.

You can rarely be in a team that is considered to underachieve and be praised. Strikers, yes. Goalkeepers too, and that fits the narrative anyway. It worked to continually praise De Gea as his brilliance was a means of saying how shit United were. ‘De Gea is saving us’. The amount of saves DDG made was a stick to beat us as much as anything else. Other than that, the odd player here and there gets their dues, but players are praised more if they win. Like Jordan Henderson.

 

[Rozay]

Yes it's all an injust narrative against the incredible Fred who just can't catch a break. Let's ignore actual peformances and achievements and just pretend that Fred and Kante are the same player just becuase nobody can recall a football match 4 years ago. In fact, I think Maguire is as good as Vidic and Rio too. Becuase... vagueness and why not?

I said what I said, I’m getting tired now.

Did it look like I was trying to ‘ignore actual performances’ or focus on them from what I said?

 

[Charlie Foley]

@Rozay your comment on Scholes’ defending reminded me of that Barca away semi in 08. Wasn’t he intercepting and cutting off passing lanes on the edge of our box all night? Or am I imagining that. I also recall him being defensively really good Wolfsburg away in 09 when we played Evra, Carrick and Fletcher as a back 3

 

[Rozay]

@Rozay your comment on Scholes’ defending reminded me of that Barca away semi in 08. Wasn’t he intercepting and cutting off passing lanes on the edge of our box all night? Or am I imagining that. I also recall him being defensively really good Wolfsburg away in 09 when we played Evra, Carrick and Fletcher as a back 3

Perhaps. For a player who spent 15 odd years in our team, I’d never argue any particular individual game that he didn’t defend well (unless I remember the detail and disagree). But I think that having watched him for 15 odd years, I’d say he wasn’t a great defender. Of course, it didn’t and doesn’t matter, he has other very often discussed qualities.

 

[Cassidy]

Perhaps. For a player who spent 15 odd years in our team, I’d never argue any particular individual game that he didn’t defend well (unless I remember the detail and disagree). But I think that having watched him for 15 odd years, I’d say he wasn’t a great defender. Of course, it didn’t and doesn’t matter, he has other very often discussed qualities.

He wasn't good at tackling, but I don't think its fair to say he wasn't a good defender

 

[AgentSmith]

Let’s see what they say about Fred if his team wins the league. May be more of ‘he’s been a crucial part of the team’ rather than ‘Fred has actually played really well in the big games I’ve seen recently’ - which Fabregas tweeted. Fact is, Fred has lined up with, and gone toe to toe in big games with all the other top teams midfielders. He’s competed well with City, Liverpool and the like. But they have ultimately been winners and he’s been losers. The praise is always from some sort of underdog perspective. But not ‘he’s the best’. His team need to do better is the overriding thought.

Players are judged typically in relation to their team’s expectations. Unless they are in the team to score goals, then nobody can really deny as it’s a numbers game. In the last 5 or so years, none of our players get praised pretty much. We don’t have anyone make the team of the season, but players from teams that finish behind us even get more praise. That is because their teams may still be seen to have exceeded expectation. I’m almost certain that come the end of this season, Leicester will finish behind us, but more of their players and their manager will be seen to have had better seasons than ours.

You can rarely be in a team that is considered to underachieve and be praised. Strikers, yes. Goalkeepers too, and that fits the narrative anyway. It worked to continually praise De Gea as his brilliance was a means of saying how shit United were. ‘De Gea is saving us’. The amount of saves DDG made was a stick to beat us as much as anything else. Other than that, the odd player here and there gets their dues, but players are praised more if they win. Like Jordan Henderson.

I’m not denying Fred can have great games. I think he can be a very good player for us when used correctly with specific intentions.

What I’ve always been criticising is your idea that Fred’s peak was ‘similar’ to Kante’s and that there’s no difference between them as players.

Which is utterly ridiculous and we can use whatever metric you want to reinforce the ridiculousness of it - trophies, individual awards, stats, the ‘eye test’ - because Kante was better in all of them.

Reading through your posts it’s like Kante was a passenger in Leicester winning the league, Chelsea winning the league, and France winning the World Cup while Fred was an unsung hero in a team that finished 3rd and got to the semi-finals of the Europa League.

Kante was an integral part of multiple teams that won the biggest trophies. Fred has been a relatively important part of a team that has come close to winning nothing. The fact that they have similar play styles is the only comparison.

 

[Rozay]

He wasn't good at tackling, but I don't think its fair to say he wasn't a good defender

Well that’s a view I guess.

 

[Rozay]

I’m not denying Fred can have great games. I think he can be a very good player for us when used correctly with specific intentions.

What I’ve always been criticising is your idea that Fred’s peak was ‘similar’ to Kante’s and that there’s no difference between them as players.

Which is utterly ridiculous and we can use whatever metric you want to reinforce the ridiculousness of it - trophies, individual awards, stats, the ‘eye test’ - because Kante was better in all of them.

Reading through your posts it’s like Kante was a passenger in Leicester winning the league, Chelsea winning the league, and France winning the World Cup while Fred was an unsung hero in a team that finished 3rd and got the semi-finals of the Europa League.

Kante was an integral part of multiple teams that won the biggest trophies. Fred has been a relatively important part of a team that has come close to winning nothing. The fact that they have similar play styles is the only comparison.

I said what I said. I’ve heard your view and respect it.

 

[Dve]

Our best paring is probable still Fred + Pogba.

 

[MikeeMike]

I’m not denying Fred can have great games. I think he can be a very good player for us when used correctly with specific intentions.

What I’ve always been criticising is your idea that Fred’s peak was ‘similar’ to Kante’s and that there’s no difference between them as players.

Which is utterly ridiculous and we can use whatever metric you want to reinforce the ridiculousness of it - trophies, individual awards, stats, the ‘eye test’ - because Kante was better in all of them.

Reading through your posts it’s like Kante was a passenger in Leicester winning the league, Chelsea winning the league, and France winning the World Cup while Fred was an unsung hero in a team that finished 3rd and got to the semi-finals of the Europa League.

Kante was an integral part of multiple teams that won the biggest trophies. Fred has been a relatively important part of a team that has come close to winning nothing. The fact that they have similar play styles is the only comparison.

Ignoring the comparisons as it deflects from his performances. Can I ask where or when was Fred an unsung hero in a 3rd place team?

 

[AgentSmith]

Ignoring the comparisons as it deflects from his performances. Can I ask where or when was Fred an unsung hero in a 3rd place team?

He wasn’t.

 

[Ekeke]

No one outside of united would say Fred is as good as Kante. No one.

No one with a sound mind would say it with a straight face period

 

[Ludens the Red]

Wait what, what’s going on over here? Fred as good as Kante. Shit has escalated in this thread

 

[Raven]

He's half of a classic double pivot. We need a controlling midfielder in next to him. He's there to break up play and recycle possession, next to Pogba I feel he can focus on that side of his game, although Pogba may not be the best playmaker to have next to him.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

He's half of a classic double pivot. We need a controlling midfielder in next to him. He's there to break up play and recycle possession, next to Pogba I feel he can focus on that side of his game, although Pogba may not be the best playmaker to have next to him.

Spot on. He isn't a holding DM that shields the defence, he likes to step out and chase the ball too much. He's good at it, let him do Fred things.
He's usually okay on the ball when he doesn't get pressed.

I want to see Fred + Pogba vs weaker teams and Fred + new DM with Pogba LW, Rashford CF and Haaland (hopefully) RW in big games.

McTominay should compete with Fred. Every dross team has been able to disrupt our buildup with McFred. I'd only resort to that pairing given injuries in big games where we can play on the counter.

I was wrong when I said we need to upgrade on Fred, instead we just need an extra midfield option. Matic has been painful too watch, let's upgrade on him.

 

[Raven]

Spot on. He isn't a holding DM that shields the defence, he likes to step out and chase the ball too much. He's good at it, let him do Fred things.
He's usually okay on the ball when he doesn't get pressed.

I want to see Fred + Pogba vs weaker teams and Fred + new DM with Pogba LW, Rashford CF and Haaland (hopefully) RW in big games.

McTominay should compete with Fred. Every dross team has been able to disrupt our buildup with McFred. I'd only resort to that pairing given injuries in big games where we can play on the counter.

I was wrong when I said we need to upgrade on Fred, instead we just need an extra midfield option. Matic has been painful too watch, let's upgrade on him.

There's absolutely no doubt that Matic is the odd one out, hopefully we can source a controlling type of midfielder to sit in there because they aren't easy to come by. I have been very impressed with the couple of games I've seen from Garner at Nottingham Forest and he fits the bill almost exactly in terms of the style of player we need, hopefully he's ready for next season but more likely it will be the one after, which is a shame because we need someone ASAP.

 

[AgentSmith]

Spot on. He isn't a holding DM that shields the defence, he likes to step out and chase the ball too much. He's good at it, let him do Fred things.
He's usually okay on the ball when he doesn't get pressed.

I want to see Fred + Pogba vs weaker teams and Fred + new DM with Pogba LW, Rashford CF and Haaland (hopefully) RW in big games.

McTominay should compete with Fred. Every dross team has been able to disrupt our buildup with McFred. I'd only resort to that pairing given injuries in big games where we can play on the counter.

I was wrong when I said we need to upgrade on Fred, instead we just need an extra midfield option. Matic has been painful too watch, let's upgrade on him.

This is roughly what I’d like to see next season as well, except swap Haaland for Sancho as I think that’s the more realistic transfer. Plus if we somehow get Haaland we’d be fools not to play him as the CF in every game.

If we hypothetically take Sancho as our big summer signing the consensus seems to be we can afford an additional player who constitutes a ‘compromise’. Which I take to essentially mean option 3/4 rather than option 1.

If we apply that to CDM, Rice and Ndidi seem to fall into the no.1 slot and are outside our budget. So I’d like to see us target Bissouma who wouldn’t break the bank and Brighton seem resigned to losing anyways.

Giving us a front 6 against against weaker teams of:

Bissouma Pogba
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Greenwood​

Which could then switch to this front 6 in tougher games;

Bissouma Fred
Sancho Bruno Pogba
Rashford
​

 

[Robbie Boy]

If his name was Fredandinho y'all would love him. It's simply because he has such a boring, non-exotic name that he isn't rated.