I dunno. He's heralded as the master of relegation scraps but still got Burnley relegated once and played a big part in their second relegation too. He is also the most short term fix ala Big Sam of those four. In comparison Poch and Postecoglu are the long term options and I really like what the latter has been doing with Celtic and his investment in the Japanese league.
Frank Lampard | Burnley?
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I dunno. He's heralded as the master of relegation scraps but still got Burnley relegated once and played a big part in their second relegation too. He is also the most short term fix ala Big Sam of those four. In comparison Poch and Postecoglu are the long term options and I really like what the latter has been doing with Celtic and his investment in the Japanese league.
The rot isn't the manager and never has been though. It is the board and the club. Until that changes then the rot is only going to be appeased.
I think Ange would be a good shout but I genuinely don’t see him leaving his post until the end of the season.
The issue you have now is getting a new manager in January, much like with players, limits what you can do greatly.
Its either an out of work coach or a short term contract specialist I think. Or you stick with Frank.
One thing is for sure though you can’t afford another bodged appointment. Silva was slated at Everton and he’s flying with Fulham. It very much feels like a poison chalice at the moment which suggests the issue lies much deeper than the coach.
What's the board issues? Genuine question, I'm not clued up but I know Everton have been unhappy with them for a while.
From the outside looking in, it looks a lot like an Icarus problem. Big Sam came in, Everton were too good for that, sack him for Silva who has no idea how to build a squad, sack him for Ancelotti who is a fantastic manager but not the right man for where Everton are at, then sack him for Benitez who is another 'ambitious' appointment and not the right fit. 3 different managers, all different styles, no joined up thinking, all results in a totally disjointed squad.
It's too late now but Emery, Lopetegui or someone like him would have been a good appointment. Someone who wants to come in and prove they can build something but also has the experience to fall back on if it starts to get rough.
Lampard doesn't have the experience or the ability to manage at this level.
He spent 10 years at his previous club. He also got much worse squads than current Everton to play effective, pressing, modern football.
The quality of managers is so high that Antonio Conte is not a top 4 manager in the Premier League. Other than Cooper and Lampard I think every single one is more than decent (albeit I don't really know much about Nathan Jones). You guys can't afford not getting the next appointment wrong, otherwise it's going to get ugly. I wish you the best, though. I always want to see Everton in the Premier League.
I think Ange could be persuaded much like Rodgers was persuaded. Obviously Leicester were in a much better place than us at the time but the PL is far more attractive as a prospect than the SPL is. It's definitely rough for whoever takes over the club. Honestly the best thing is probably a hard reset in the Championship but with the new stadium that would be catastrophic so it's either going to be relegation and a really worrying time for the club and future of it or being consistent relegation battlers. It's really difficult to predict what is going to happen.
Too involved when he doesn't know what he's doing. Appointed a DoF but didn't let him do his job and interfered constantly. Brands was trying to do the right things but Moshiri was trying to spunk his money up the wall and go from 0 to 100. No patience to build the club up the right way which is why you saw the quick decisions like Silva being sacked, Benitez being appointed etc. He let Digne be sold because Benitez fell out with him and then sacked him a few weeks later. He's behind a lot of transfers that have been big money let downs like Dele etc. Just a trash owner that has no business being in football if he isn't going to let football people do their job.
It doesn't matter how long he spent at Burnley. I'm talking about a short term or long term fix for us. Big Sam was at Bolton for 8 years and West Ham for 4 years but he was never brought in as a manager who would be doing that for us and I wouldn't see Dyche as doing so either.
Personally, Dyche's managerial career so far suggests to me that he can both be an immediate short term improvement, but at the same time also someone that can build something long term. He would be my number 1 target if it was up to me. Like I've said, I hope you get it right and it won't be some totally out of the blue appointment like Cannavaro
Personally, Dyche's managerial career so far suggests to me that he can both be an immediate short term improvement, but at the same time also someone that can build something long term. He would be my number 1 target if it was up to me. Like I've said, I hope you get it right and it won't be some totally out of the blue appointment like Cannavaro
He can but looking at the club, our fanbase and the way football is progressing in the future, I don't think Dyche would be a long term option for myself or our fans. I don't want that to look like Dyche type football doesn't have its place in football or I or we are above it but I think it has its limits in the PL and world football. With the new stadium on the horizon and the size of club we should be trying to obtain a progressive manager that matches the way football is heading.
As I eluded to does this next appointment really matter then until the owner sorts himself out and a good solid structure, without his meddling, is put in place?
I know that’s doom and gloom but it feels like a similar cycle United have been on but on a much worse scale. Going through different coaches, constantly changing structures, no stability. It gets to the point where the right manager only really makes a difference when the rest of the club is willing to change.
Please don't sack him before our match
No, as I have said before, it's a sorry job for whoever takes over. The rot starts and ends with the board, not the manager. It is all well and good for us and me to be stating who i'd prefer but it is in an ideal world which we aren't really in.
How did they manage a draw against Citeh the other day? They can't be that shite.
Set up to play within our limitations. Lampard then changed it to try and play in a way we can't against a team that would destroy us if we did, and we were ultimately destroyed.
What he should have done is stick with a 5-3-2. It's not pretty but points matter and that's our best chance of getting points currently.
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I think he's also bought more time because there's a growing acceptance that the problems remain irregardless of who is in charge. The more managerial changes there have been, and the more things stay much the same, then the more fans realise it's not really the manager that's the root cause behind the club's struggles.
I agree that Postecoglu is exactly the sort of manager you should be targeting. The squad has its issues but he's a neat fit. And the days of going for a 'name' should be dead and buried. Although I'd agree with @TheReligion that he'd probably turn it down right now. It's mid-season, he's only 18 months into the job and Everton are in a mess with relegation hanging over the club. The Rodgers and Gerrard appointments were different because both were in charge around 3 years and arguably moved onto clubs with greater prospects and more competence in place off the park.
Can't disagree with any of that.
It’s tough for Lampard.
He was obviously brought in to adopt a long term approach. I didn’t think he was the right choice at the time and couldn’t understand the clamour for him from some, but ultimately that was his brief.
He’s brought with him some good appointments on the coaching side, such as Ashley Cole (as evidenced by the improvement to Mykolenko and Patterson) but it does feel like he’s been dealt a bum hand. Especially in terms of the sale of Richarlison and the lack of planning in getting a replacement to compliment DCL.
He’s played pragmatically against City and got a point then moved back to his longer term preferred style and been mullered by Brighton. There’s obviously some naivety with him but that’s obvious given his inexperience. It seems he’s trying to do the right things but simply can’t.
Had he been supplemented by a solid DoF and off field recruitment set up (as he should have been) he may have been a success. As it stands now though it feels like he’s been set up to fail.
I don’t know much about Ange but he seems a loyal straight talking type.
I don’t see him abandoning his post currently for the reasons you mentioned and many others.
I also think many good up and coming managers will look at the structure and managerial merry go round and give the job a hard pass.
I appreciate the PL is the job you want as a coach but look at Rooney for instance. He’s mapping his career out and turned Everton down. It’s not in the best interest of any young or up and coming coach to move to a club without a decent structure and in Everton’s case a meddling owner. Could be career suicide.
Rooney is a different example to Ange. It was because he wasn't ready rather than the club.
Was it? I have no idea but the fact the club wanted him shows they want to go long term appointment. That said I can also understand (sadly) why young coaches would not be jumping at the chance to go to Everton as it stands. Even more so after seeing Lampard.
As you mentioned you need something seismic to happen. A total reset.
Yeah, he wanted to focus on the job he had at Derby.
It only seems like a matter of when he gets sacked. Even a positive result against us will only be a temporary reprieve. And I do sympathize with Everton fans. With much higher net spends than their peers and yet no character in the squad, they seem like a mid-table version of our own mediocrity.
It is critical they get rid of Lampard quickly and get a new man in. The relegation fears could be swayed away with only a couple of wins. The more this continues, the bigger the hole is going to be for the new manager who will inevitably come in. And the appointment has to be spot on. While the likes of Dyche do have a decent record in keeping struggling teams up, his brand of football can quickly add more toxicity if results don't come quickly.
A manager from another league who would be hungry to prove himself in the PL, ironically similar to when Marco Silva had come in, is probably going to be their best bet. With such a poor recent record, Moshiri is bound to get at least one big call right.
It is critical they get rid of Lampard quickly and get a new man in. The relegation fears could be swayed away with only a couple of wins. The more this continues, the bigger the hole is going to be for the new manager who will inevitably come in. And the appointment has to be spot on. While the likes of Dyche do have a decent record in keeping struggling teams up, his brand of football can quickly add more toxicity if results don't come quickly.
A manager from another league who would be hungry to prove himself in the PL, ironically similar to when Marco Silva had come in, is probably going to be their best bet. With such a poor recent record, Moshiri is bound to get at least one big call right.
Very unlikely that Postecoglou would leave Celtic at the halfway point of another title winning season at Celtic to join Everton.
I'm now thinking the only reason Everton haven't sacked Lampard yet is because they can't find a successor. I can't think of many potential options myself.
I'm now thinking the only reason Everton haven't sacked Lampard yet is because they can't find a successor. I can't think of many potential options myself.
Ange Postecoglou won't leave Celtic mid season, he might be more willing to move on at the end of the season.
I do think that is the case. I'm worried we are waiting for West Ham to pull the trigger on Moyes.
Not a bad shout actually. Moyes has enjoyed a resurgence in recent seasons, this season aside obviously. It probably isn't a sexy appointment but definitely a steady one.I do think that is the case. I'm worried we are waiting for West Ham to pull the trigger on Moyes.
Question is - what do Everton want? What is the longterm plan. That top ten is just ridiculously competitive now, there is a mix of teams with a lot of money to spend (Aston Villa, Newcastle United) and clubs with brilliant infrastructure and direction (Brighton, Brentford). Clubs like Villa and Wolves hiring Emery and Lopetegui. The Premier League really is insane nowadays, and Everton, traditionally one of the bigger clubs, have really suffered as a result.
Moyes and Dyche don't play the type of football that is progressive or in line with the future of football which is why I and many fans would be against them long term. If we want to get it right we need a manager and a board/backroom staff that are all progressive and work in that manner but that won't change until Moshiri, Kenwright and co. leave.
@SilentWitness I think looking at what coaches are available currently I think the best and most interesting appointment would be Marcelo Gallardo. Obviously he’s only experienced in South America but very highly sought after and has the makings of a young progressive coach. He’s currently taking a sabbatical but after several months out I think he’s an attractive candidate if he’d take the job..
Looking at consistency, and barring in mind your DoF is Thelwell, could reuniting him with Nuno be an option? He’s currently in Saudi but would be obtainable.
Sticking with Wolves Bruno Lage? I thought he did some good things with Wolves but would be risky given how it ended.
Finally Roberto Martinez who you know all about. May feel like a backwards step but knows the club and the PL very well. Could bring some stability but perhaps not that exciting.
Looking at consistency, and barring in mind your DoF is Thelwell, could reuniting him with Nuno be an option? He’s currently in Saudi but would be obtainable.
Sticking with Wolves Bruno Lage? I thought he did some good things with Wolves but would be risky given how it ended.
Finally Roberto Martinez who you know all about. May feel like a backwards step but knows the club and the PL very well. Could bring some stability but perhaps not that exciting.
What happened to the good old days?
Jesus no! He is a very dogmatic manager that when things don't go his way he becomes very erratic in making decisions. You need someone pragmatic, not a manager who will try to instill a whole ne philosophy bla bla bla.
Yeah but SW was saying they want long term not pragmatic so was looking at the brief..
Poor Frank. Weight on over Christmas and now this.
They don't know what's up with him at Everton he just keeps mumbling the name Mason Mount before bursting into tears
Don't rate Bruno Lage at all and Martinez would be suicide currently. The defence (surprisingly) has been one of the best bits about the season and he's dreadful with one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Nuno due to the Thelwell connection and I think he'd probably do a decent job with the type of players we have. He's just insufferably boring. It's hard not to be picky and we don't really have a right to be due to the situation.
Long term is simply not a viable option now, they need to save the season once again. But why not join both.
IMO:
If Tite knows a bit of English, would be a good choice: experienced, won a lot of titles (his CV is actually impressive) and know how to organize a defense properly. My doubts is that the english press seems to be a bit unforgiven on managers who don't speak english that well, but he would be a great choice.
Marcelino would be my top choice: underrated manager and already proved he can save a team going down (his work at Bilbao was very good at bringing them out from what it seemed like a downward spiral) and his teams play good football for the fans.
If nothing else works: Big Sam (joking off course)
He is not, my money is on Southampton to go down now.
That doesn't mean he's a good manager.
Don't rate Bruno Lage at all and Martinez would be suicide currently. The defence (surprisingly) has been one of the best bits about the season and he's dreadful with one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Nuno due to the Thelwell connection and I think he'd probably do a decent job with the type of players we have. He's just insufferably boring. It's hard not to be picky and we don't really have a right to be due to the situation.
Would you fancy Tite? I actually rate him, his career is actually very solid.
Don't rate Bruno Lage at all and Martinez would be suicide currently. The defence (surprisingly) has been one of the best bits about the season and he's dreadful with one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Nuno due to the Thelwell connection and I think he'd probably do a decent job with the type of players we have. He's just insufferably boring. It's hard not to be picky and we don't really have a right to be due to the situation.
Thoughts on Gallardo?
Tite would be interesting. Hadn’t thought of him. Still I’m sticking to my guns on Gallardo!
He is a very solid manager and knows what's up think he would become good for you guys. But I get what you are saying.