Frank Lampard | Burnley?

I did say in my OP, might as well hire Ole :) Seriously, he could not have done worse.

The funny thing with Frank is that he seems desperate to play out from the back and play nice football. At the same time though, he has continued to persist with this awful 4-4-2 that will never work in a million years, mainly due to the gaps between the lines in his team in both defence and attack. I thought the Donny-Doucouré/Allan midfield showed staggering levels of cluelessness, but he’s managed to even top that by using Holgate in there in Donny’s absence, giving a midfield no better than Norwich in terms of quality, and sadly for them, a two men one as well, leaving both men horribly exposed game in game out.

Many people said that Frank should have continued to learn his trade in the Championship before his big move to Chelsea. I don’t think this is how anyone envisaged it happening. Lose to us and Burnley beat Norwich at the weekend, and they’re almost done imo.

As for Donny, he only has himself to blame. Why he opted for a relegation battle under a clueless coach rather than mid-table stability under the very progressive Vieira is beyond me.
 
slyadams said:
What happens to Lampard next if Everton goes down? Failed in three jobs in a row, jobs he really only got based on his playing reputation.

Surely either he has to drop way down to prove himself or go abroad?
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I don't think he gets another PL job. Too risky for a relegation-battler and mid-table sides can command managers with better CVs. It'll be Championship or abroad. And probably not Scotland now as proper coaches with clear styles of play are in vogue here given Postecoglu's success.
 
This will be his last job in management for a while and then he'll pop up in about 3 years at a club his uncle has strong ties with, only to repeat this nonsense
 
Hansi Fick said:
They're not really going to get relegated though. All they need to do is not lose against Burnley mid week. That's all. And Burnley are far too crappy this season to avoid going down, they thoroughly deserve it too.
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So much for that. How the hell do you even manage to concede three goals against Burnley?

Not kidding, he needs to be sacked before it's too late :lol:
 
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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No idea. Think he’s the most likeable of all the Chelsea legends if I’m honest. Maybe it’s the Ole comparisons that fuel it on here.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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I disliked him as a player but there was easily 4 or 5 more players at Chelsea who were hate-able so he got off lightly.

I think it stems from the media protection Lampard gets, especially when you partner that with the battering Solskjaer got outside of ex United players. For some reason all you hear about Lampard is how intelligent, how dedicated, how hard working he is etc, all of which most managers possess. It feels a lot like nepotism or friends in high places doing him a favour for every job he's had so far.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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He's an arrogant gimp but also it's just funny.

feck knows why he turned down the Norwich job, he's a tool.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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I can only speak for myself, but I found him likeable enough as a player, I liked him and found him impressive when I heard him as a pundit before he took over Chelsea, I liked him in his first season of Chelsea where he made a good and likeable young team. But his attitude towards his team when things got more difficult turned me off him big time. I don't think he is humble enough to be a top manager, and I think his sense of status and ego is getting in the way of being successful.
He actually comes across like he thinks he is entitled to his team winning things to match his personal sense of self, and gets sulky and starts finger-pointing when they don't. And on top he's keenly aware of perception and narratives and reacts to this by protecting himself in interviews - he keeps making a point of declaring that these defeats were not a problem of "tactics" or that the "match plan" was good (it's interesting, the casual way he throws in these buzzwords to absolve himself) while blaming the player's mentality. When really, as a a manager he's got it all to prove, himself, first.
Not a pretty picture.

He did a poor job in his second season at Chelsea, and he's doing an outright horrible job right now. "Not good enough", as they like to say in English media.
 
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duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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I love Drogba to pieces even as a United fan, but I always thought Lampard was a twat. Not in the upper echelon of cnuts in that team by any means but still an uppity prick.

And yeah he hasn’t remotely deserved any of his appointments post-Derby so that certainly doesn’t help.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
No idea. Think he’s the most likeable of all the Chelsea legends if I’m honest. Maybe it’s the Ole comparisons that fuel it on here.
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There was a lot of that during Lampard 1st season as Chelsea boss; 'why can't Ole turn things around as fast as Lampard?" " was answered with "feck Lampard".
 
Smart by Lampard.

Everton have been in the PL since it began, so doing this increases Chelsea's legitimacy.
 
duffer said:
He probably thought he could get a better job, which he did.
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No he didn't, he got an absolutely awful job. Shite team, massive expectations, can't defend and he can't coach. Bad combo that.

Norwich of course would have had 3 out of 4 of those things but they were in such a state that it really wouldn't have reflected badly on the manager if they'd have gone down, unlike Everton. He'd have almost certainly had a chance to rebuild them in the Championship, just as Smith will probably end up doing. If Lampard gets Everton relegated there's no way they can let him carry on next year.
 
MvG said:
I love Drogba to pieces even as a United fan, but I always thought Lampard was a twat.
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Oppo fans hated Drogba for the most part. More people like him with hindsight but at the time he was a diving, cheating crybaby.

Also Drogba kinda stepped out of the footballing world when he retired and absence always makes the heart grow fonder!
 
TwoSheds said:
If Lampard gets Everton relegated there's no way they can let him carry on next year.
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And if he keeps them up he's still a Premier League manager at a historic club.

Picking a job is always a gamble but picking Norwich over Everton because the fallout for failing would be nicer is a losers mentality, not the sign of a good manager.
 
He's clueless. The post-match interview after the Palace FA Cup game was indicative of a manager who doesn't understand how to instil confidence in his players in this scenario. Which is unsurprising given A) he's an inexperienced manager who has achieved very little in the game so far in this role and B) he's never been in a relegation dog-fight in his career either as a manager or player.

Tactically it seems very obvious what to do here to me - concentrate on being solid and compact defensively first and prioritize on not conceding goals, and use the quality, work-rate and power they have at the other end with the likes of DCL and Richarlison and play vertically to try and nick a goal or 2. It probably won't be pretty but they need to start putting points on the board quick, and for some reason he thinks 'well I have better players so I'll just keep playing expansive football and eventually we'll win games', he doesn't seem to realise that the lack of confidence and experience in this scenario is effectively wiping out that talent discrepancy between them and a Burnley completely because the players are playing a level below where they should be in this system.

Awful appointment in the first place as 99% of this forum would have said and should be managing in the bottom half of the Championship at best at the moment.
 
duffer said:
Oppo fans hated Drogba for the most part. More people like him with hindsight but at the time he was a diving, cheating crybaby.

Also Drogba kinda stepped out of the footballing world when he retired and absence always makes the heart grow fonder!
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I cursed his name more than once don’t get me wrong. But he was the sort of player any sensible oppo fan knew they would love to have in their side. Bitch and moan at him during the match sure but always respected him after the final whistle.

The charity work and him being a really decent bloke post-retirement has definitely endeared him to many who despised him though I agree.
 
duffer said:
And if he keeps them up he's still a Premier League manager at a historic club.

Picking a job is always a gamble but picking Norwich over Everton because the fallout for failing would be nicer is a losers mentality, not the sign of a good manager.
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It wasn't a simultaneous choice though, he's supposed to have turned down a few Championship jobs and Norwich because he thought he was too good for them and then eventually Everton came along with a big stamp on their heads saying "MUGS" and the rest is history.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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No major hate for Lampard but probably because of the way that Ole was mocked and belittled in comparison.
 
led_scholes said:
No matter how bad Benitez was, the run under Lampard is ridiculously bad. Don't think he can last 2 more games.
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He shouldn't last this day; they're genuinely fighting for survival now.

They need to roll out one of the fabled relegation escape artists otherwise they are going down, which would be something the majority of us have never witnessed in our lifetime.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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He's an arrogant bellend, enough reason to dislike him.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Surely they need to sack him and get someone in just to steady the ship.
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Problem might be, they surely can't go below "OBE" now? Needs to be at least someone who's OBE too, or, seeing that they need to improve, CBE, KBE? Steve Holland, MBE isn't going to cut it. Who's there?
A bit awkward, but, Sir Kenny Dalglish? :nervous:
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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I think there's definitely an element of it because he's such a media darling. He got a massively easy run of it for most of his time at Chelsea even when it was abundantly clear he wasn't good enough.

I've seen plenty of Chelsea fans on here overestimating his abilities as a manager too. Ultimately it's just quite funny.
 
I will hold my hands up and say I thought he would be a decent fit for Everton. I've been very wrong, they've been shocking!

Burnley wanted it so much more than them. The intensity difference between the two teams was crazy last night.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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There's only so much we can do in this thread, the dislike had set in before we arrived and it's on Lampard now to sort it out. The tactics in this thread for Frank to be likable were working for the first few pages, but the application just isn't there on his end at the moment, he needs to buck up his ideas and show a bit of fight, of course the scheduling of the thread doesn't help, there's only so much we can do as posters when the thread is getting bumped so often, the odds are against us and the other thing to mention as well is that when you consider how unlikable Rafael Benitez is, it's gonna take time to evolve the unlikable culture, you can't expect too much from us at the end of the day
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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For me Frank's journey in management is indicative of a wider problem in the game that doesn't seem to be going away. He got the job at Derby without any experience behind him other than "he's Frank Lampard". He did a moderate job there at best and yet gets given the Chelsea job, a top PL position. Probably a lot of that was to do with the transfer bans and who they could attract, but it still felt like a "job for the old boys" appointment. He did a moderate to poor job there and the change under Tuchel shows just how underperforming that Chelsea side were (wasn't it around this time that Kante was being dropped and played out wide?). He was sacked at Chelsea and yet walks into another PL job. Based on what? Its hard to turn big jobs down and say "Im not ready", but he actually needs to learn his trade as a coach/manager.

Its similar to what happens in the lower leagues where the same old guys just go from job to job peddling the same old ideas.

I'm a ST holder at the MK Dons and I promise you our manager (Liam Manning, 36) is twice the coach Frank is. He has over 15 years coaching experience, he's coached PL youth teams, coached in multiple countries abroad and headed up entire coaching organizations. But because he wasn't a player he'll probably have to take a team up to the PL to get a job at that level, but people like Frank are gifted them. Make no mistake I feel the same about other ex-players, including Ole.

This is why we have plenty of young English playing talent but almost no young English coaches in the top flight.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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Club rivalries aside, it's probably a counter-reaction to the fact he is quite likeable and tends to get a good press with some of the media.
 
Management is coming into a club, saying "This is a big football club", saying the fans are good, and being appreciated by the media in press conferences. If the results aren't coming after that then frankly you have a bad bunch of lads in the dressing room.
 
slyadams said:
For me Frank's journey in management is indicative of a wider problem in the game that doesn't seem to be going away. He got the job at Derby without any experience behind him other than "he's Frank Lampard". He did a moderate job there at best and yet gets given the Chelsea job, a top PL position. Probably a lot of that was to do with the transfer bans and who they could attract, but it still felt like a "job for the old boys" appointment. He did a moderate to poor job there and the change under Tuchel shows just how underperforming that Chelsea side were (wasn't it around this time that Kante was being dropped and played out wide?). He was sacked at Chelsea and yet walks into another PL job. Based on what? Its hard to turn big jobs down and say "Im not ready", but he actually needs to learn his trade as a coach/manager.

Its similar to what happens in the lower leagues where the same old guys just go from job to job peddling the same old ideas.

I'm a ST holder at the MK Dons and I promise you our manager (Liam Manning, 36) is twice the coach Frank is. He has over 15 years coaching experience, he's coached PL youth teams, coached in multiple countries abroad and headed up entire coaching organizations. But because he wasn't a player he'll probably have to take a team up to the PL to get a job at that level, but people like Frank are gifted them. Make no mistake I feel the same about other ex-players, including Ole.

This is why we have plenty of young English playing talent but almost no young English coaches in the top flight.
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And it's a big PL club too. Everton are a big job, in the world of football management. His predecessors are Koeman, Ancelotti, Benitez. He gets this huge job despite obviously not being qualified for it and instead of being quietly respectful, he goes "oh the club has problems that were here before I came and even a winner like me isn't going to be able to change these huge issues overnight."

He's got it all wrong. And it's not going to work out for him.
 
It was a terrible and arrogant appointment by Everton. They went for Lampard because they assumed they'd just be safe from relegation.

Then Lampard comes in and instead of getting some fighters in he goes for flair. Van de Beek and Dele Alli? Basically asking for trouble.
 
The problem is Lampard scored 200 deflected goals and you can't just tell players to go out there and hit it against the defenders arse.

Lampard makes life difficult for himself by explaining his tactics in Latin and then laughing every 5 minutes.

At least Stevie G does a "yeeeeeeeah of course" every 2 minutes which probably makes the players feel more secure.
 
duffer said:
Is the dislike for Lampard because he's been "gifted" opportunities that he didn't deserve or is there something else? He was always "Fat Frank" of course but I don't remember such gleeful distain for him.

I don't remember him being particularly disliked as a player (maybe he had Terry, Jose, Ashley Cole and Drogba protecting him as kinda hatred lightning rods).
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I never cared for him much to be honest. Great player, but an ungracious individual who always sounded incredibly bitter in defeat. I think it was 2008 which coloured my judgement.

Bit like Vierra, who spent every losing Arsenal summer moaning about who played the better football, etc, etc.
 
horsechoker said:
The problem is Lampard scored 200 deflected goals and you can't just tell players to go out there and hit it against the defenders arse.

Lampard makes life difficult for himself by explaining his tactics in Latin and then laughing every 5 minutes.

At least Stevie G does a "yeeeeeeeah of course" every 2 minutes which probably makes the players feel more secure.
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He's trying his best to put his stamp on the team. Everton's last three goals have been two penalties and a deflection.
 
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