Just making sure. So much anti England/English stuff on the Caf again (as per) hard to wade through.
Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful
- Thread starter GaryLifo
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Just making sure. So much anti England/English stuff on the Caf again (as per) hard to wade through.
Is it really that unexpected, though?
Most of these campaigns serve the purpose of clout for them.
Taking the knee for BLM, rainbow armbands, MeToo movement.
Celebs and sportsmen want to APPEAR as if they care, but if anything affects them in the slightest, they're the quickest out the door.
As I said before, their moral integrity is painfully low to nonexistent.
It's a shame that people die for their rights and beliefs on one side, while on the other, someone won't even risk not kicking a football for a day.
Respect the local customs
But that’s not a religion though (well, kinda was).
So pretty much anyone associated with this World Cup then? FIFA, FAs, Players and fans alike.
Their chance to stand up and say a massive feck you and show solidarity was to not go IMO anything after that is just PR to make up for the decision to go.
So they get booked for pulling on a shirt to stop an attack, but taking a card to support the ideal of standing against discrimination is too much? There’s no push back against taking the knee, that’s the point. It’s easy. If you can’t take a stand when it’s hard, you’re a fecking coward. And you have no business taking a stand when it’s easy, because at that point you’re just following like a sheep.
The fact you don’t know what Alex Scott has to do with all these says it all really.
It was a political philosophy (if you can call it that) that people chose to believe in. Much like people choose to believe in religion.
Seb has become very vocal about this beleifs in past couple of years, not sure if it's an age thing but he stands up for what he believes in, the same goes for Lewis Hamilton as well.
They're the two people who stand out in F1 as they aren't afraid to upset their host, sponsors, governing bodies etc... football in general seems to have sold it's soul to the highest bidder.
Correct. There’s very little difference at all, if any.
Sick to the back teeth of people trying to claim otherwise.
Is this a serious post? You think there’s very little difference between Nazi Germany and Qatar hosting a World Cup?
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...colours-with-meek-surrender-in-armband-fiasco
"Every man has a limit. A place they will not be taken, a line that will not be crossed, a point at which they bend and break. And as England’s footballers peeled off their smart blue training jackets a few minutes before 4pm local time at the Khalifa International Stadium, perhaps we discovered theirs."
"Every man has a limit. A place they will not be taken, a line that will not be crossed, a point at which they bend and break. And as England’s footballers peeled off their smart blue training jackets a few minutes before 4pm local time at the Khalifa International Stadium, perhaps we discovered theirs."
Very little difference between choosing to believe in political philosophies and religious ideologies is what was meant by my post.
Especially those who create and oppress the "others".
Sorry but that’s nonsense. There’s fair criticism to be levelled at Qatar but crowbarring Nazi Germany into the discussion is just disingenuous sensationalism.
Fair dos. I somewhat disagree but I kinda get your overall point.
I didn't crowbar it in, I joined a conversation.
I said there was similarities and by that I mean there is the demonisation of a section of society built into the identify of the state. Can you argue otherwise?
If we don't recognise the similaruties early and however slight we are destined for trouble.
I’m not saying you did - the fact that it’s been crowbarred in at all is disingenuous sensationalism. There’s a term for it but it escapes me (ie people making unhelpful analogies to Nazi Germany in any / all discussion).
Hitler used antisemitism as a way to influence nationalism and patriotism. I mean, frankly speaking I really don’t need to list out the atrocities he committed against the Jews at the time. There’s nothing remotely similar happening in Qatar. Unless you can find LGBT community members businesses being trashed, or them being rounded up and put into concentration camps and exterminated?
Banning an armband or the foreign sec asking LGBT community members to respect the host’s culture doesn’t make Qatar (or Fifa) Nazi Germany. Like I said in my original post there’s fair criticism to be had, but bringing Nazi Germany into the conversation is nonsense.
I get the thrust of what you are saying but banning armbands is not the actual problem. That's quite disengenuous to suggest it is. Its the codified banning of homosexuality that is the issue. But yes a heavy handed comparison. I did say initially there were differences, so you don't have to point them out. I also said the similarities were slight. Maybe so slight you don't agree that they are similarities at all. And that's fine, it wasn't my point initially.
For me once you create the others Niemoller springs to mind.
What a dick.
Interesting exchange in the replies to that Tweet that seems like a parody of all the nonsensical whataboutery on here.
Wait he's a member of their government?
Don't think so. He's an academic of some kind, it seems.
The other poster refers to the "homosexuality = brain damage" guy (the World Cup ambassador).
What does it say? I’m aware of Alex Scott’s sexuality but she’s not a current player, so I’m afraid it’s irrelevant to the point of discussion around the England players.
I’d prefer they followed through with it, but I can understand the decision not to. Fifa should be taking the flak here far more than the players but they aren’t really, which doesn’t seem right to me. Not only is the rule stupid, but they’ve changed the rule the day before the first game. I’m sure this was on purpose to stop any other ideas, rainbow boots, socks etc, over which Fifa would have little say.
Also, the players have taken absolute pelters for taking the knee constantly. There has been continuous pushback against doing it, both in stadiums and online. Even today there were boos.
There is one big difference.
With religion you'll likely believe what you're told as a child and carry that through your entire life. Rigidly. So your faith is entirely dependent on where and when you were born. It's pure chance you believe in the god you do. Born somewhere else, to a different family, in a different time, it would be a different belief system you carry for life.
Your political leaning is much more flexible. It's commonplace for young people to support a different party to their parents etc. Or for an individual to support one party, then change at some point. External factors as you grow older are much more influential in your political choice.
All true.
I took the other post to mean once the choice is made its a similar psychosis; if the political party is built a certain way. Political ideologies and theologies can look the same in their manifestation.
Also shes making a stand on a platform which has already decided against showing the opening ceremony in favour of a discussion about the problems with Qatar.
Her actions today werent going to generate any pushback so I don't know why the players are getting pelters for "Only taking a stand when there isn't any push back" and celebrating a pundit for ... Taking a stand where there wasn't/ isn't any pushback.
By all means celebrate anyone raising awareness but don't use them as a stick to beat people who have to operate under a completely different set of rules.
I don't know whether you know but the Nazis weren't very nice to gays either.
There should be another law for the constant invocation of Godwin's law. As if you cannot draw any parallel to a horrific regime for anything other than systemic genocide.
As in almost every country in the world. Conversion therapy is actually more wide spread in the USA than in these conservative Muslim countries. In places like Qatar homophobic parents are less likely to admit they have a gay kid "in need" of conversion to begin with.
The first meaning is partially true. You can get arrested and get beaten for what they would call “exposing depravity”. It certainly isn't happening as often as you seem to think (the reason is of course that almost all the gay people there are living it very discreetly).
Nobody has been executed for sodomy in Qatar ever. Actually, they had a death penalty Hiatus until recently. And broke it, killing a Nepali national convicted of murder.
https://nepalesevoice.com/nepal/nep...grant worker identified,al-Ramajani al-Nuaimi.
The regime in Qatar is awful, but most of the other potential WC hosts have pretty bad human rights records too (Iceland and Ecuador can't host a WC...). Suffice to look at who hosted the last one... None of them is Nazi Germany though. Not even Saudi Arabia or North Korea, actually. Nazi Germany was something else. You may want to read about it before bringing it up.
Again, willing to take a yellow for cheating in the game. Not willing to take a yellow to stand up for abused people. Is your hero worship so clouded your eyes that you can’t see the issue? Black Lives Matter as long as it’s ok. LGBT people can go feck themselves though, because starting a match with a yellow is just too much. Millionaires shitting themselves to take a stand because if a fecking game. And no, getting pushback on twitter from racist arseholes is not systemic bigotry. It’s not even fecking close. ”boo” like at a fecking pantomime? Oh yeah, scary stuff.
Harry Kane could have taken a rule book out on to the pitch and then throw at the ref saying “point to where it says wearing a rainbow arm band is a yellow card offence?“. And then every fecking player should have walked off if the yellow card was still produced.
Footballers, for whatever dumb reason, are seen as role models. But instead of the national team being those role models, Alex Scott stepped up and did it for them. Their money, their status, their ambition for a fecking game was more important to them. feck the lot them. feck fifa as well, but feck them right along side. Pathetic, self serving, pieces of shit.
Honest question, have you guys who wanted Kane etc to take the yellow actually ever done something like that in your field of work? Roy Keane is talking shite, he would not have done anything either.
Realistically, the footballers simply don't care. Its the FA chiefs making the decisions for them and the likes of Kane have to agree because its easier than disagreeing but I highly doubt many of them care that much. And you know what, and this is going to trigger some in here....the fans (English) don't really care either. Any regular match going person can tell you how homophobic English crowds are. Theres a reason not a single active PL player has come out yet.
And still no one has answered this..
Realistically, the footballers simply don't care. Its the FA chiefs making the decisions for them and the likes of Kane have to agree because its easier than disagreeing but I highly doubt many of them care that much. And you know what, and this is going to trigger some in here....the fans (English) don't really care either. Any regular match going person can tell you how homophobic English crowds are. Theres a reason not a single active PL player has come out yet.
And still no one has answered this..
What does Uefa have to say about the fifa threat to dish out yellow cards to players wearing armbands?
I’ve always though as rich as Uefa is they could coax fifa into their way of thinking. Maybe Uefa doesn’t care?
I’ve always though as rich as Uefa is they could coax fifa into their way of thinking. Maybe Uefa doesn’t care?
England and the other Western countries, with their behaviour here, have screamed:
"WE HAVE VALUES! WE HAVE GREAT VALUES! AND WE STAND BY OUR VALUES ... but only if there are zero negative consequences for us."
Simple, isn't it?
"WE HAVE VALUES! WE HAVE GREAT VALUES! AND WE STAND BY OUR VALUES ... but only if there are zero negative consequences for us."
Simple, isn't it?
Would I have chosen not to stand up for something I considered an important principle in order to avoid what ultimately has to be considered a minor punishment (I wouldn't have lost my job, nowhere near it) administered by someone other than my actual employer? No, I can assure you that I would not have done that.
Have I actually found myself in that position? No, I have not. I doubt many people have - because it's a very unlikely scenario. In fact, offhand I can't think of anything that's even remotely analogous. I can think of certain more extreme hypothetical scenarios, where the employee might actually risk something major if they chose to stick up for what they believed in - but those are not analogous.
Of course, it is going to sound like someone is defending Qatar when you equate it with the Nazi regime... I believe Stalin was far worse than Syria's Assad. Does that make me an Assad apologetic ? I hope not...
Qatar is a very bad WC host for many reasons, including the non football related ones you mention. The Europeans should never have taken the bribes and should never have voted for Qatar. But I also believe that most of the countries that can host a WC, with the very high standards that it requires nowadays, are no angels at all. The country that lost to Qatar was the USA, hardly a flawless country. The country that organized it in 2018 was Russia, certainly not a nicer regime than Qatar.
The treatment of gay people in Qatar is disgusting and despicable. But it is not comparable to Nazi Germany. Gay people in Qatar are de facto forced to hide their sexuality, but for those who accept that condition, life is pretty much as normal as it could be. (Not excusing this, just stating the fact people do not come out, just like we have this closet culture in many communities in the West, including the football community).
There is nobody rounding up gay people and putting them in concentration camp. Police involvements with gay people in Qatar is not the phenomena you are trying to make it out to be. There are definitely many more hate crimes and violence against LGBT people in progressive countries than there is in Qatar.
I think the biggest problem here is the symbol. Qatar having these archaic laws written, even though they are very rarely implemented.
Even though it is nowhere near a democracy, the citizens of Qatar (this probably includes a good portion of the closeted LGBT community there) seem to be content with the deal they got with their regime. Limited individual & political freedoms, but unlimited access to both free education and top-notch health care and welfare system. They have one of the highest living standards in the world... it is somewhat similar to us westerners. Enjoying many privileges, and ignoring what our regimes may be doing to other populations somewhere else in the world (only difference is most of the victims of the Qatari regime live close by.. While the majority of our victims are thousands of miles away)...
There is nobody rounding up gay people and putting them in concentration camp. Police involvements with gay people in Qatar is not the phenomena you are trying to make it out to be. There are definitely many more hate crimes and violence against LGBT people in progressive countries than there is in Qatar.
I think the biggest problem here is the symbol. Qatar having these archaic laws written, even though they are very rarely implemented.
Even though it is nowhere near a democracy, the citizens of Qatar (this probably includes a good portion of the closeted LGBT community there) seem to be content with the deal they got with their regime. Limited individual & political freedoms, but unlimited access to both free education and top-notch health care and welfare system. They have one of the highest living standards in the world... it is somewhat similar to us westerners. Enjoying many privileges, and ignoring what our regimes may be doing to other populations somewhere else in the world (only difference is most of the victims of the Qatari regime live close by.. While the majority of our victims are thousands of miles away)...
I used to work for a small computer firm. A little business that was run by a guy and his wife. There was me who went out to jobs and there was a girl that worked the phones. I was very rarely in the office, but when I was I that the guy was abusive as feck towards his wife. Like he would just blow up at her for the slightest thing she did wrong. One day, my last day, he slapped her, knocking her off her chair. He then went in and started slapping the feck out of her. I stepped in, as Im sure many here would do, and beat the ever living feck out of him. Destroyed a couple of keyboards on his skull. I took a sacking and risked an assault charge because feck wife beaters. Ive walked out of two other jobs while they were really busy, one a night club and the other a restaurant because the managers were abusing the staff by not letting them take breaks and working past their shift for no pay.
And Im just some asshole. No one is looking to me to be role model, believe that. These footballers are all millionaires. They are the top of their profession and the reason that so many people watch football. They can do whatever they want and face nothing but empty threats by corrupt pieces of shit in Fifa. Without the players, there is no football. If they all walked, that would be the end of the tournament. They have power, far more than any one on here has in their dime a dozen 9 to 5. What you mean to say is that YOU wouldnt do anything. And it makes you feel better to see everyone else that way. Lots of people do stuff every single day. And they get shit for it. People with no safety net like these footballers have.
As for homophobia in football in general, yeah. It's a problem. But it's not a country arresting and jailing people for who they love. It's a few pricks with self esteem issues picking on a minority to make themselves feel better about being worthless trash. It is not a government with "death sentence" on the books as a form of punishment for being gay. It's bellends who call people names to give the illusion that they are better than those people.
Yes, I can think of two occasions, one where I was receiving direct pressure from my employers (rather than petty threats of minor disciplinary action), in a job I needed to keep (I didn't have footballer money to fall back on), in a situation where I didn't have a community of support behind me. The other time I faced being socially ostracised. I hated doing it both times, I wasn't making some massive statement and it wasn't going to have any tangible impact but I felt strongly enough about the point I was making. I wasn't a martyr or hero, I wasn't even being a good person, I was doing the bare minimum of living by my convictions, so that I could look back at myself knowing I didn't fold like a sucker.
These fecking cowards were putting next to absolutely nothing up, they were at no personal risk, and yet still they collapsed in a heartbeat.
No one has to do anything, that is for everyone's own conscience but having spoken about taking up the challenge of representing, then to turn around and throw everone in the gutter, is fecking shite.
Southgate is now talking in interviews about moving on and concentrating on football, just like the Fifa crooks, and the oppressive Qatar organisers demanded.
Also if you were to ask me have I ever done what the Iran players did, then the answer is a definite no! That is some seriously scary, committed statement making. I would hope to have that courage but I don't know myself that well.
I think I get what you are saying, but I don't think you're understanding what I am.
In simple words I don't draw the line for immorality or illegality. For me Islam does. My personal opinion doesn't come into it for me.