Page 69! 
Final - Germany vs. Argentina
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
Given that when Neuer actually touches the ball he's also touching Higuain, I find it funny you're saying Higuain "shouldn't have been there" and was "late to the party"
I genuinely hope Hart or Mignolet clean out RVP like that next season. The reactions will be interesting.
Utter nonsense. He's as entitled to chase down the ball as Neuer is. Should he see the goalie coming out and just say to himself "nah, I'll stop running now"? Digging for a penalty? As you can see, he's in the process of attempting to chest the ball and his eyes are focused firmly on the ball itself. Some people here are acting like the collision occurs 10 seconds after Neuer's punched the ball. The ball was there to be won by both men.
You can say it's not a foul by Neuer all you want but for you (and other German posters) to say that Higuain was cheating there is a disgrace. Call out Muller for that, not Higuain.
It's unbelievable that some idiots here are suggesting Higuain never stood a chance of winning that ball.
Of course Neuer should not be singled out here, but it was a very special moment in a very special game, and that's why this thing is getting so much attention. Look, we can debate this forever and I respect your point of view, I just wish you guys could show some greatness in victory and admit "okay, we deserved to win yesterday, but we were rather lucky in that scene".
Wouldn't take anything away from Neuers great tournament as well as your fully deserved world cup victory.
To compare the Neuer- Higuian challenge with Schumacher-Battiston is nothing short of ridiculous.
I'm not saying Higuain is cheating, I'm saying that he knew what was very likely gonna happen. Other strikers opt to protect themselves (like Klose did in a somewhat similar situation).
I think we were lucky that Höwedes didn't get sent off, disagree with the Neuer - Higuain incident though. If the ref gave a penalty in that situation, I would feel cheated, because that would be clearly against the way football games are regularly refereed and changing that in a World Cup final would be a bad joke. Of course it could have happened, a different referee might have given a penalty because it was a somewhat controversial moment, but that's a completely different story than you're telling.
Oh actually, we were lucky to get a freekick, should have been a throw-in for Argentina. But I doubt that's what you've meant.
i agree with you, during the game it seemed unfair to me that the ref called it a foul against higuain, and i still think that shouldnt have been the call, but the most argentina should have get from that was a throw in
not exactly a game changer, right
Utter nonsense. He's as entitled to chase down the ball as Neuer is. Should he see the goalie coming out and just say to himself "nah, I'll stop running now"? Digging for a penalty? As you can see, he's in the process of attempting to chest the ball and his eyes are focused firmly on the ball itself. Some people here are acting like the collision occurs 10 seconds after Neuer's punched the ball. The ball was there to be won by both men.
You can say it's not a foul by Neuer all you want but for you (and other German posters) to say that Higuain was cheating there is a disgrace. Call out Muller for that, not Higuain.
It's unbelievable that some idiots here are suggesting Higuain never stood a chance of winning that ball.
He never stood a chance of winning the ball, as you can clearly see .
In my opinion it was good goalkeeping from Neuer, he made sure HE was going to get the ball. How many times have goalkeepers been slated( De Gea for one in his first season) for being too weak in these situations.
Higuian was entitled to go for the ball but Neuer was commited and made sure he had no chance of getting anywhere near it.
It was never a free kick to Germany it was a collision of 2 players, one of who was clearly the favourite to get it. It happens.
Allow some " idiots" to have a different opinion to yours.
I was slightly confused when we all of a sudden had a freekicki agree with you, during the game it seemed unfair to me that the ref called it a foul against higuain, and i still think that shouldnt have been the call, but the most argentina should have get from that was a throw in
not exactly a game changer, right
. Didn't understand that at all. But the ref fecked up quite a bit in the first half, thought he was better in the 2nd half just to completely lose the plot in extra time. Well, at least his performance was consistent with the shit refereeing throughout the tournament.Agree. It was not a foul by either side. So wrong decision by the ref to give us a freekick.
With my comparison I had rather the possible consequences for the adversary than the "style" of the attack itself in mind. By the way, I may be the only guy in this world, but I still think today, that Schumacher was treated a tad too harshly by part of the media after the incident with Battiston. Maybe I'm just not too fond of witchhunts....
Ha, ha, that's exactly what I meant with "showing some greatness in victory".....
Oh, does anyone agree that the hit Kramer took wasn't an accident? Haven't read through the whole thread, but that one looked really intentional to me and just as bad as Höwedes' totally unnecessary foul.
I was slightly confused when we all of a sudden had a freekick
not al all, the best thing we can say about him is that his stupidness didnt change the outcome of the game, so there was no harm
congrats Balu, well deserved world cup for your country
Ha, ha, that's exactly what I meant with "showing some greatness in victory".....
We were lucky in some scenes yesterday (especially after Kroos assisting Higuain) but not in that scene imo. Maybe a little bit though. Some refs would have given a pen probably. But it would have been the wrong decision then.
It's funny, but the Höwedes incident I see rather with (pro-) German eyes, I would not have given him a red for that tackle either, though it was definitly borderline. He just comes across as too much of a decent German bloke to imply bad intention....but hey, maybe I'm just watching too much Bundesliga!
I don't think Höwedes' foul was intentional, just incredibly stupid and clumsy. But you definitely couldn't complain if he was sent off for it, his foot simply should never ever go where it went in that situation.It's funny, but the Höwedes incident I see rather with (pro-) German eyes, I would not have given him a red for that tackle either, though it was definitly borderline. He just comes across as too much of a decent German bloke to imply bad intention....but hey, maybe I'm just watching too much Bundesliga!
Look at the picture. It's clear Higuain is attempting to bring it down on his chest. If he jumps and is a few feet in the air, you don't think he "stands a chance" of winning the ball? I'd still like someone to tell me why a players chance of getting the ball is relevant when they're involved in a challenge.
Goalkeepers like DDG are/were slated for situations in which the ball would've been crossed in on top of them and they allowed themselves to be bullied. I don't think it's the same situation.
Honest opinion time. Say the challenge is reversed and Higuain jumps like Neuer did and makes the same amount of contact with ball and man and the ball goes in the net, do you think the goal's standing?
Sorry if I missed this, but can anyone tell me why Sabella took off Lavezzi at half time when he was clearly one of Argentina's most threatening outlets?
according to the argie pundits, Lavezzi was too tired to play the second period
That makes no sense? If Neuer attempted to head that ball like a striker would do, he would either head it without making that much contact or mistime and go with his knee through the attacker before he gets to the ball. That's obviously a completely different situation. Here it's clear that Neuer will punch the ball first and Higuain never had a chance to control the ball with his chest. He should have stayed away because the follow through will always hurt him. Unless you forbid goalkeepers to challenge for the ball with their hands inside the box, the attackers will suffer if they don't back down early. It's pretty much impossible for the goalkeeper to not follow through with his body in these situations.
Ah, I just got what you originally said. You've got to phrase your sentences better.
I'd call it a hand ball.
Seriously an outfield player can't ever play the ball the same way Neuer did so what you say makes little sense to me. The scenes where Kramer gets knocked out and Romero charges out against Klose are probably a lot more comparable and I don't see any outrage over them.
The moment Neuer leaves his goal he's commited, he can't back down even if he wants to. Higuain on the other hand sees Neuer coming, has a choice and decides to go for what will most likely end the way it did.
Shame. He looked like he could've been decisive.
I would rather give an opinion on what did happen not what might happen if this or that.
But I will tell you that at the Aberdeen -Motherwell game that decided 2nd-3rd place last season Langfield and Sutton went up for a high ball, Sutton clearly fouled Langfield by jumping into him, yet the ref gave nothing.
I say clearly fouled him because Sutton got nowhere near the ball. Langfield got a fist on the ball but it was weak due to Suttons presence, the ball then bobbled about the box before Motherwell scored and duly secured 2nd place.
That goal stood yet Sutton didn't even get near the ball. Langfield was slated by some Aberdeen fans for being too weak.
As a supporter I would much rather have a strong goalkeeper who takes everything rather than a Langfield who can be to hesitant in these situations.
So my honest opinion is I do not know as 3 different referees might well give 3 different decisisions.
My opinion will not change on the Neuer - Higuain situation as that is how I saw it.
yes, he was playing very good
i guess he spent all his bullets on the first period trying to leave argentina with a lead, but then got too tired and had to be replaced
I'll word it differently.
If someone crosses the ball into the centre of the box and Higuain running in jumps in the same manner Neuer did (leading with his knee at a dangerous height) and connected the exact same way Neuer did BUT also got his head on the ball (head in this instance, fist in Neuer's case). Do you think the referee would allow it? Or would it be a foul on the keeper?
Once again, it's absolutely insane to be suggesting that Higuain should back down. If he'd jumped in the air attempting to head it he could've got his head on the ball before Neuer got his fist. Both guys were 100% entitled to go for the ball IMO. I also think it was honest from both guys (Neuer went only for the ball and Higuain was attempting to control the ball not win a penalty).
See. This is where I couldn't disagree more with you. Why is there a sense of entitlement surrounding the goalkeeper? Higuain has a chance to make contact with the ball too. Shouldn't he pursue that opportunity given that if he does, he's either getting punched in the head and certainly winning a penalty OR he's beat the keeper and has options to shoot or cross it with Neuer out of his area.
As for the Kramer incident. That was a brutal hit but it was completely innocuous looking. Neuer and Higuain's was totally different. That was a 50/50 challenge.
Can't remember Romero and Klose so can't comment.
I agree with the notion that it was honest from both players. But I can't ever see Higuain getting his head on the ball ahead of Neuer here. He's simply too late. If you challenge too late against another player, you usually commit a foul. If you challenge too late against a goalkeeper, you often feel the pain. That's why most strikers back down just like Klose shortly before when Romero went out with a massive Kung Fu kick to make sure that Klose won't go after the ball.
Wait, so the fact that Sneider and Vlaar missed pk's against Argentina means Messi should win the golden ball? erm
Fair enough, but once again, the fact that Higuain was second favourite to win the ball is an irrelevance when discussing a (what I believe to be) a reckless challenge from Neuer. It was dangerous, IMO.
Look at Zuniga's challenge on Neymar as another example. Had he got his head on the ball it should still have been a foul and booking because there's certain things you can't do on a pitch and jumping into a player with your knee is one of them.
The problem is, if goalkeepers start flying around in the box to punch the ball away without protecting themselves, they really struggle to control the landing in my opinion. It's pretty much a necessary evil to avoid massive hits when coming down again all the time. You rarely see the same forward force in a jump from the other players.
Utter nonsense. He's as entitled to chase down the ball as Neuer is. Should he see the goalie coming out and just say to himself "nah, I'll stop running now"? Digging for a penalty? As you can see, he's in the process of attempting to chest the ball and his eyes are focused firmly on the ball itself. Some people here are acting like the collision occurs 10 seconds after Neuer's punched the ball. The ball was there to be won by both men.
You can say it's not a foul by Neuer all you want but for you (and other German posters) to say that Higuain was cheating there is a disgrace. Call out Muller for that, not Higuain.
It's unbelievable that some idiots here are suggesting Higuain never stood a chance of winning that ball.
Higuain should have been yellow carded.
Spain by far.
Germany for me. To win in South America and beat both South American giants there convincingly is super impressive.
Spain 2008 was better, not so sure about Spain in 2010. They were fairly average in most games, lost against Switzerland, struggled against Portugal, needed Paraguay to miss a penalty late in the game and could have lost the final just as easily as we did yesterday. I think people underrate how much of a fight World Cup wins often are and that the winning team rarely plays more than 2 or 3 actual great games. I'm really looking forward to the next Euro. With so much pressure now gone I could see us playing better football without losing our efficiency. However, Spain in 2008 was a fecking brilliant team, really really tough to match those performances.
Robben scores 1-on-1 and Spain are done in 2010.
That moment when Higuain was cheering like hell and then realized he was offside, imagine how painful that would feel lol. Thinking you scored in a WC final and then realizing a bit late that the goal didn't count.
