Probably equal I'd say. Spain 2010 took on an extremely pragmatic approach to the WC. They exerted far better control on the match and sacrificed a lot of their attacking strength. Germany 2014, however, were livelier and were willing to take risks. When it comes down to the wire both sides are capable of grinding out results. Watching Germany yesterday gave me a sense of Deja Vu which brought me back to WC 2010. Anti-Football vs Football. It just felt that Germany were destined to win it when time and time again they got away with playing that high line. Likewise, Spain lived on the edge with their high line. Heck, even both winning goals came towards the end of ET and were volleys hit to the far post.
Final - Germany vs. Argentina
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
Not sure if this has been posted already, but this was class from Goetze:
Not sure if this has been posted already, but this was class from Goetze:
A few pages back someone made a normal picture of some german player shaking hands after every game and made another "class" comment. It's as if no other player greet their opponents after the game. Are we now going to witness 10 such "class" photos every thread for next 4 years?
They were not that convincing vs argentina, they were about equal. Also there really were no top teams at this world cup, decent at best.
Are you always that bitter?
Italy win the shoot-out and Spain are done in 2008. Those are the margins at the top level and nobody has won a World Cup or a Euros in the modern era with room to spare.
You realise that the GK has his arms to reach, right? Higuain never stood a chance. Unless he turns into a giraffe suddenly. Nobody is saying he cheated, but we're all responding to everyone here saying Neuer should've been booked and a penalty given. That's just clearly wrong.
People are looking at it from a "Higuain was never getting it and Neuer got the ball" point of view. All of which probably correct. Ignore that angle and focus on the actual challenge. Don't you think it was incredibly dangerous and as such should have been penalised?
Ok, do we want to talk about the attack on Schweinsteiger and the tackle on Kramer now? Ignoring the angle and just focusing on the challenges during that game, both teams were lucky to have 11 man on the pitch at the end. We're trying to debate if the rules are favoring Neuer or Higuain. You're talking about simple severity of the impact. Those are two debates. I agree that the WC in general has been way too brutal. We can talk about that, I'd probably agree with you. But even then, I have been told by my coach to not engage a GK in the air unless I was ready to take the punishment. Our own GK told me to not get in the way if he's going for the ball, he'll knock me senseless and won't care if he does it when I'm in the way. Every GK alive will tell you the same. They always go in without remorse and they are always protected by the refs in these situations. Why is it now all of a sudden something people are making such a fuss about?
Also, I understand your point of view. I'm not saying it's wrong to think about player safety, but unlike - say the NBA - in football there are situations where contact tackling happens. Not all of them are illegal. And quite a few of them had injuries as a result that take a player out for weeks if not months. It happens in professional sport. I understand that Argentinian fans want to vent and be mad at someone, but this is probably not the right person to vent it at. How about you vent it at the team around Messi that let him down and waited to be carried to the cup?
Edit: Just as a side note... one reason why I'll never submit to saying Neuer was wrong is the way Higuain is felled like a tree, stands up immediately and starts shouting and protesting (to provoke a send-off?) only to fall down again as if smiten by god himself when he realised he's got the foul whistled against him... True, there's probably a totally valid explanation for that. Perhaps the pain took a full 5 seconds to register in his brain, but still...
Takes pleasure in other people's pain
Great observation, well done! Oh and thanks for answering the question as well!
Neuer went in that way because he knew (or was at least convinced) that he'd get the ball. If you take that away he probably never would have gone for the ball directly, because Neuer has the best anticipation skills I've ever seen in a keeper: as far as I remember he's never even been red carded despite playing as a sweeper.
Everyone knew what Neuer was going to do, Higuain took a look at him, he decided to go on collision course (whether it was a desperate attempt to get the ball or an attempt to get a penalty + Neuer red carded I can't tell). These things don't happen on a regular basis because players usually don't make these suicidal plays and simply avoid these kind of situations before there is any kind of danger (just like Klose did in the same game).
Penalizing Neuer for this would probably even encourage other strikers to take similar risks.
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Higuain doesn't stray offside for the goal and scores a sitter and Germany are done in 2014. Not to mention Palacio and Messi's misses.
Germany goes 0-1 down and Müller gets angry and scores 10 goals.
Germany wins 10-1
Höwedes & Schürrle both should have scored at least 1 goal
Or Mascherano & Agüero both gets their well deserved second yellow card and Argentinia has to play with 9 players
Germany goes 0-1 down and Müller gets angry and scores 10 goals.
Germany wins 10-1
Höwedes & Schürrle both should have scored at least 1 goal
Or Mascherano & Agüero both gets their well deserved second yellow card and Argentinia has to play with 9 players
I was just highlighting how silly it is to put the world cup result down to one missed chance.
So if Higuain's a penalty, than this is also a penalty right?
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/D1...p4?versionId=rNOulY0g._x9T0rjFSmklc_.mpOcLsom
If there was intent, there would be a shout but I don't think there was any real intent with that. Neuer however, knew exactly what he was doing and was intent on putting one on Higuain.
Thanks for the bitterness.
In your version, Argies always get a penalty?
Sorry?
Don't be. You seem to be understanding to the point of fault on the second episode citing intent while just sticking to the follow through of Neuer. Higuain doesn't jump or challenge for the ball, he just runs towards the ball inviting a collision, surely the intent to play the ball was more from Neuer, and because he can use his hands, he's entitled to jump and get the ball first?
Well that question flew straight over your head
Neuer did play the ball, no doubt but he also played the man in a dangerous manner with intent to cause harm. Ask any keeper, they love doing it, especially Neuer who has a history of it. They know they can hurt the striker and get away with it. Higuain shouldn't have to stop running towards the ball because another player is going for it. Inviting a collision? He is inviting a fair collision, it's not his fault Neuer body checks him in the head, you can not blame Higuain for that. Neuer is allowed to jump and get to the ball first, that does not give him the right to completely take out the player in the process.
It has nothing to do with Germany or Argentina.
Well that question flew straight over your head
Neuer did play the ball, no doubt but he also played the man in a dangerous manner with intent to cause harm. Ask any keeper, they love doing it, especially Neuer who has a history of it. They know they can hurt the striker and get away with it. Higuain shouldn't have to stop running towards the ball because another player is going for it. Inviting a collision? He is inviting a fair collision, it's not his fault Neuer body checks him in the head, you can not blame Higuain for that. Neuer is allowed to jump and get to the ball first, that does not give him the right to completely take out the player in the process.
It has nothing to do with Germany or Argentina.
I'm not blaming Higuain, in the end it's a fair collision, Neuer punched the ball clear and Higuain just ended up there in his path. Neuer can't evaporate into thin air in the middle of the challenge, he's not a wizard.
Forget where the ball is and if Neuer got the ball. Look at the position Neuer put himself in. If you are putting yourself into a position where the only excuse is "I can't just evaporate/disappear", that is a reckless challenge. Players have a duty of care to watch out for the safety of their opponents.
Fascinating that Argentine referees in Argentine television say the referee was spot on with his decision while some English fans turn this into a Neuer loves to hurt strikers and is a serial offender discussion . But clearly a striker running into a goalkeeper jumping for the ball without a chance of getting to the ball is completely harmless, there's no chance ever that the goalkeeper might lose his balance in the air and falls down to the ground without any chance of protecting himself.
. But clearly a striker running into a goalkeeper jumping for the ball without a chance of getting to the ball is completely harmless, there's no chance ever that the goalkeeper might lose his balance in the air and falls down to the ground without any chance of protecting himself.That's how every goalkeeper claim a high ball. The same duty applies to Higuain who should pull out the moment he realises Neuer gets the ball first. I'm struggling to understand your argument here.
A keeper standing claiming a cross is the same as a keeper sprinting out at full pace jumping to make sure he cleans the player up?
I understand the point about him going for the ball and he is using his hands so it's only natural that his body is higher and that increases risk, I accept that.
It might just be from a players perspective but any player will tell you that there was intent from Neuer. While I think it was Neuer's fault, I understand that accidents are going to happen but this was NEVER a foul againt Higuain.
If that is a defender running and towering over a player winning a header but makes that contact with the striker, it's a foul, end of. A keeper, shouldn't be allowed to put others at risk just because they can use their hands.
@Balu I'm an English fan?
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I don't quite know what to think of this
. It's most likely bollocks.Unless you're from Argentina which would make it somewhat understandable to be bitter after losing the final, it doesn't really make it any difference from where you are when you write complete and utter nonsense like 'especially Neuer having a history of intending to cause harm to attacking players'. While I don't mind disagreeing with you about who commited a foul in this situation or if anyone did at all (it simply was a throw-in for Argentina in my opinion), that comment is just stupid and there's absolutely no evidence to back it up at all.@Balu I'm an English fan?
You won't find a bigger fan of Neuer than me. However, I can admit he is a very physical keeper than does use his body and does intimidate strikers when coming out, players have seen what he is capable of. Shalke used to play that highline like the Germans did and Neuer used to clean strikers up every week
And um, yeh, I'm not bitter about losing the final as I didn't lose the final.
Neither were penalties and no one here knows whether Neuer meant to take out Higuain , its all speculation.
People can have opinions but when they say Neuer meant to take out Higuain then they are taking out of their arse.
I don't go around posting pictures of players after game and labelling them "class" at every chance even when it's my fav team/player. Don't degrade the meaning of "class".
No-one's a mind reader nor do they need to be. The facts are clear: Neuer made a reckless and dangerous challenge that took out the player.
Whether he intended to take him out or not isn't really an issue.
I think it was a stupid decision from Higuain to go for that ball. He sees Neuer running for it and he knows that Neuer won't back down. So if Higuain doesn't care for his health, why should Neuer.
I think if Neuer had the body of someone like VDS or Crouch no one would have bat an eye, but Manuel being a fecking giant everyone loses their mind.
I think if Neuer had the body of someone like VDS or Crouch no one would have bat an eye, but Manuel being a fecking giant everyone loses their mind.
Good point there. Both see each other coming and neither is backing down. If you award a penalty for this and the final gets decided that way, all hell is breaking loose afterwards.
The only thing which bugged me about this scene was that we were awarded a free kick. It was so obvious that play should've just continued and Argentina would get a throw in.
Neuer's entitled to come in over the top of Higuain to get the ball. But to do it with the raised, leading knee (which is what keepers use all the time as "protection" or as a freebie on the opposing striker) can be considered as excessive force. Don't think it was a penalty as convention dictates keepers get leeway to be clumsy, but a free-kick to Germany wasn't the right decision.
Probably more of a penalty than 1990