I'd agree with this whilst also agreeing that he has the potential to be an outstanding centre-half. His concentration drifts occasionally and he's caught out of position. He needs a run and will get it eventually.
Fellaini
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I'd agree with this whilst also agreeing that he has the potential to be an outstanding centre-half. His concentration drifts occasionally and he's caught out of position. He needs a run and will get it eventually.
And how can you argue that thats got nothing to do with a player who doesn't want the ball in midfield and is poor positionally in possession?
I think he could work in a midfield 5 doing a job on someone providing the rest of the midfield is comfortable with retention and high pressure. Obviously this part of his game would improve in time if he stuck at the role, but to say "Jones kills our attacks" full stop is wrong. It is a combination of things.
So,
Midfielders playing in midfield. Could we pull it off?
I'm in favour of Fellaini at 23Million, I'd prefer him over Cabaye, and even if we got a player like Fabregas, they are poles apart, in what they bring to a team.
Midfielders playing in midfield. Could we pull it off?
I'm in favour of Fellaini at 23Million, I'd prefer him over Cabaye, and even if we got a player like Fabregas, they are poles apart, in what they bring to a team.
Top options like Gundogan and Benders look unattainable. I'd go for McCarthy - still improving can pass, tackle, run and is positionally disciplined.
Well it's not just wrong, because that's exactly what he did last season.
I have no problem with the job he did man marking an oppos best player, although it made us very lopsided and vulnerable down the left against Bale and Ronaldo because Jones was effectively a 2nd full back rather than a midfielder.
But he simply was not adequate in anyway as a midfielder doing anything else last season, he wasn't a good enough passer, he doesn't have a good enough first touch, he doesn't have the posistional awareness and understanding, he doesn't really hold nor does he provide a goal threat.
I have no doubt he probably could be competent midfielder, but why bother when he can already actually play as a defender its a waste of everyones time.
All valid points, but I don't think Jones single handedly killed all our attacks. We had enough chances to put Real to bed and even Mourinho felt we were the better team afterwards. He also played in the midfield that bossed Everton at OT.
I do wonder how much of Jones playing MF is down to Fergie developing players, rather than sheer necessity.
He seemed to like giving players a chance to round off their game, by playing them out of position.
Referring to SAF in the past tense feels fecking awful!
He seemed to like giving players a chance to round off their game, by playing them out of position.
Referring to SAF in the past tense feels fecking awful!
Buy him. Exhilarating player.
Where are you getting those stats from? I presume you are talking about the 2011/2012 season which is when they were both in CM in the PL, and every stat site I'm looking at has Cabaye with 5 goals overall in English competitions and Fellaini also on 5...
Plus Cabaye takes free kicks doesn't he whereas Fellaini does not. That added 2 or 3 goals from what i can find.
On your point about the winning the ball and tackling, i understand that, and it's where Fellaini takes over Cabaye in that particular department.
From EPL Index.
In that particular season, Fellaini had 84/99 being successful. Cabaye made more tackles so understandably would have more successful tackles, but Fellaini had a higher percentage of his tackles being successful, around 85% i believe. Fellaini also won the ball more than any player in CM during that season too...
More useful defensively because they win the ball, well yes, which is why Fellaini is so good and doesn't need to be an overly brilliant passer or of particular creative talent. He is more than good enough to link play up without making the 'key passes' but within United he wouldn't need that as he has Carrick beside him. Cabaye to me is like a worse Carrick, whereas Fellaini is a midfielder that could slot beside Carrick, do more of the dirty work and free Carricks game up a bit more. Plus the benefit of that is when you need Carrick to sit out, you don't need to worry about losing much of the defensive part of the midfield anymore, you just need to worry about creativity which Cleverley/Anderson can give you. Plus Moyes said he wanted a defensive and a creative midfielder IIRC.
Only used Fabregas as the example of a confirmed Moyes target. The RVP point was only to emphasize the view that despite many thinking we didn't need him, and that we were spending too much on him, the difference he made is now obvious.
You claim we don't need Fellaini, and we can do better. Again i don't disagree with that, but if he is (speculatively)the man Moyes wants, then we should give him what he needs to get him, then judge him at the end of the season. As opposed to simply writing off Fellaini's potential worth before we even bid for him.
As others have said, buying Fabreags would be fantastic, but if Carrick gets injured what then? We need someone more defensive minded in there, and if Moyes targets Fellaini, then i for one will be happy to give him a chance. I would rather Fellaini come in than no-one that's for certain. It is unrealistic to expect Carrick to have another injury free season, and that is my concern.
Bear in mind that I'm not saying the club shouldn't allow Moyes to spend whatever he wants on whoever he wants, even if that is Fellaini. Just that I personally don't think spending £25mil on Fellaini would be a good idea. Obviously it's an opinion, and one from a fan who doesn't know anything compared to the people involved. But that's my opinion, nonetheless.
I agree that the defensive back-up to Carrick is very important. It's just that if we only get someone for that position without dealing with the hole in our first XI, I'll be quite disappointed. ('Hole' here is relative. I'm a massive Cleverley fan, and I expect the combination of Moyes and timing to bring the best out of him this season, so that we don't look quite so desperate there. But if we're talking about transfers, I think that position has to be a higher priority than the also very important defensive midfield back-up).
Another point is that I don't actually rate Fellaini as a proper holding defensive midfielder. I think he's at his best playing up around the opposition box as a combative attacking midfielder. I've been into that in depth in this thread at the start of the summer so I won't again, but basically I think Fellaini plays in one of two spots: DM, or the aforementioned combative AM. In the former role he would suit us and is the type of player we should be looking for to back up Carrick, but not actually good enough. In the latter, he's good enough for us - I think he's excellent there - but wouldn't really suit our style of play, and besides he plays so far up in that position that he'd be in competition with Rooney and Kagawa, not Cleverley and Anderson.
Havent heard of that site until now and it acts weirdly for me so I can't really use it to answer these questions. But does it provide a list of all the players in the league in order of average tackles, interceptions, etc? Or is posted as Fellaini specific or something?
If you use http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2011-2012 you should be able to find stats from all the players in the premier league that season. Site also covers all the other major leagues at the time.
So onto the winning the ball more than any other player part... Hows that then? From the numbers he tackled a fair bit less than some players who also intercepted more than him. Obviously you can recover scrambled balls and that wont come up in tackles or interception. But that'll be a small number... Fellaini made the most fouls in the league, is that site perhaps counting how many times a player breaks up an attack overall, rather than winning the ball?... I see he has more clearances too, so perhaps its counting clearances as winning the ball? As far as my thinking, clearances would be heading or hooking away from danger, not specifically recovering the ball.
It would be simply unfair to call Cabaye a lesser Carrick. Cabaye is a lot better offensively in terms of creating and scoring and has done more defensively for a couple of seasons in a row in the premier league. Carrick may be better at dictating play, but that hasnt been his strong point. He relied on Scholes for that for a long time and though I do think he was probably better at it last season, its still not the best.
I dont believe Moyes said he wanted a creative and defensive midfielder, just speculation
Anyone who's up for it right now can watch Strootman and Michael Bradley play this evening v MLS all stars.
Fellaini and his mates with Everton take on Juve in about 90 minutes in San Francisco.
Fellaini and his mates with Everton take on Juve in about 90 minutes in San Francisco.
Holy madre de dios the atmosphere in KC is fantastic tonight!
feck, we missed out on a fantastic midfielder in Strootman. Roma 1, MLS nil.
Were we ever in for Strootman in any way or was it caftard speculation?
Are you talking to someone in particular?
I dont know if we were in for him but half the caf didnt think he was good enough. I wish we had gone for him.
Anyone know if there is any truth to the august 2nd deadline to his release clause? If he's playing tonight in San Francisco it seems unlikely
Powered by the transfer forum, some websites and being compared to Keane once a few years ago by somebody or other. There's no reason to think we had any interest
He has transferred to Roma
Nope...just trying to gin up some interest in the fact that Strootman and Fellaini will be playing in back to back games.
I should have gone to San Francisco tonight for the game. Drats!
I like what I've seen so far. Not that it really matters, but his gait is very similar to that of RvP.
Reading through the Everton forums they seem to almost unanimously think he's much better playing deeper in midfield with the license to make forward runs, possibly next to Gibson who holds and pings passes about. Most of them think the striker position he was being played in wasn't ideal. They also believe he'd walk into our 11.
Unless someone is wearing his wig amd fake eyebrows, Fellaini is definitely in San Francisco tonight.
My teenage daughter says no way Fellaini is good enough for United, but let's see what he can against Juve tonight.
My teenage daughter says no way Fellaini is good enough for United, but let's see what he can against Juve tonight.
They've got it just about right, especially the last bit.
His first touch was horrifying, but no harm ensued.
Being this is the Fellaini thread; hoped it was clear I meant the Belgian?
Still believe he'd be a great signing
Agree he has many of the qualities in an abundance that we lack come on Moyes sign him up.
This guy seems trustworthy
edit: received a PM from Ralph250 with a tweet from an EFC fan who's listed in the twitter thread, might be more credible
...so who knows.
How do you measure 'potential to be one of the best' when Jones was at Blackburn?
The season when we bought him, Valencia looked ordinary when playing for Wigan, and had never been in PL team of the season.
Agreed with Young being overpaid, but United always prepare to overpay for established PL players (see Carrick, Yorke, and Rio).
Nearly had a heart attack when I saw that tweet about his clause expiring. I find myself giddily refreshing this thread with sweaty hands embalmed by greed. We need this guy.
He'd be a very good player for us.
all this release clause stuff is completely irrelevant in Fellaini's case - because he is basically only worth his reported £22.5m release clause anyway (although in fact no one officially knows the price)
the idea that his price is suddenly going to rise if a deal isnt done is bullshit
the idea that his price is suddenly going to rise if a deal isnt done is bullshit
We could most prob get him cheaper with this release clause out the way.
See that's not the case. Everton are getting quoted 20 million for a championship player in James McCarthy plus they know how keen we are to get a midfielder in. We go in after the date of the release clause we'll be asked for somewhere around 30 - 35 I reckon.
Hmmm I somehow think that's not going to happen. Everton may just choose not to sell. Seeing how this transfer window is going, I'd rather not take the risk, if we are indeed planning to get him.
Martinez would jump at the chance of swapping Fellaini for McCarthy and pocketing £5M plus £1M+ a year in wages.
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