Fellaini

Status
Not open for further replies.
Irwynwastheking said:
And that's fair enough.

I honestly think that he could slot into this formation seemlessly and would offer so much both in general play, set pieces, goals and generally putting the shit up the opposition.

DDG
Evra Vidic CB Raf
Carrick
CM Fellini
Kagawa
Rooney RVP
Click to expand...

Who is your second midfielder, and where does our width come from?

Also, given how excited you are in the Zaha thread, why are you now advocating playing a formation that entirely excludes him, and any other winger we might have, of ever getting a game.

If signing Fellaini means we employ a formation with no width whatsoever, and we change how we play entirety to accommodate him, then Everton can keep him. He's not worth all that.
 
apotheosis said:
Yep moyes tactics are not being credited enough in the effort to belittle Fellaini. It's not like Fellaini just stands up front winning flick on's. He moves left and right onto the fullbacks and stands up against a centre half and then drops deep to tempt him out of position. he did this brilliantly against us in the 3-3 a couple of years back. he dropped onto the centre half then went deep and took him with him then he played it out wide and whichever side vidic was on they crossed it to the other one.

So you could see it was a coordinated and premeditated tactic, designed specifically to give us as many headaches as possible. I think you have to credit moyes for conceiving the tactic and then conveying it to his players.
Click to expand...

fecking hell. Who are you? His Mum?

People are allowed to not rate someone you rate, you know.

Don't be so precious, darling.
 
I think if you went back and found the transfer thread from when Carrick was signed, you'd probably find a lot of similar opinions on him that you have on Fellaini. You can't always judge what a player is capable of on what they've done in the past.

Would anyone have thought Carrick, whilst at Tottenham, would go on to be player of the year for a club who won the league by 11 points over a billionaire oil club?
 
apotheosis said:
Yep moyes tactics are not being credited enough in the effort to belittle Fellaini. It's not like Fellaini just stands up front winning flick on's. He moves left and right onto the fullbacks and stands up against a centre half and then drops deep to tempt him out of position. he did this brilliantly against us in the 3-3 a couple of years back. he dropped onto the centre half then went deep and took him with him then he played it out wide and whichever side vidic was on they crossed it to the other one.

So you could see it was a coordinated and premeditated tactic, designed specifically to give us as many headaches as possible. I think you have to credit moyes for conceiving the tactic and then conveying it to his players.
Click to expand...

This isn't a praise for Fellini, but Moyes.

If you can take lesser men in any context and create a system in order for them to defeat their superiors then you deserve huge respect.

The Neviller said:
Who is your second midfielder, and where does our width come from?

Also, given how excited you are in the Zaha thread, why are you now advocating playing a formation that entirely excludes him, and any other winger we might have, of ever getting a game.

If signing Fellaini means we employ a formation with no width whatsoever, and we change how we play entirety to accommodate him, then Everton can keep him. He's not worth all that.
Click to expand...

I said this on the last page, and also touched on it in the Zaha thread. At the moment I would have our two very very attacking FB's providing the width supported by a mobile front three.

We still have loads of options of the bench and loads of options for formations, but I think with Carrick pulling the strings in the QB role and screening the defense, The fullbacks providing loads of width assisted by the forwards running the corners, Fellini breaking up play as well as being a great target for DDG, a strong creative CM beside him, and then allow the forward three the freedom to interchange and terrify defenses. We can easily switch to a 442 by taking off one of the forward 5 and putting on one or two wingers. We could change to a 451 by dropping in two wingers or playing one with Kagawa out of position.
Click to expand...

Zaha will still play 20 games next season, but for me that would be an ideal formation.

As for who the other CM would be, in an ideal world I'd love a Cesc type player. I'm far from a muppet so I wouldn't be able to honestly give an opinion on the other players linked with us, but that's how I see that role played.
 
forevrared said:
I think if you went back and found the transfer thread from when Carrick was signed, you'd probably find a lot of similar opinions on him that you have on Fellaini. You can't always judge what a player is capable of on what they've done in the past.

Would anyone have thought Carrick, whilst at Tottenham, would go on to be player of the year for a club who won the league by 11 points over a billionaire oil club?
Click to expand...

He always looked a good footballer. He was always graceful on the ball, and I was delighted when we signed him. There is no comparison between Carrick and Fellaini.
 
Irwynwastheking said:
This isn't a praise for Fellini, but Moyes.

If you can take lesser men in any context and create a system in order for them to defeat their superiors then you deserve huge respect.



I said this on the last page, and also touched on it in the Zaha thread. At the moment I would have our two very very attacking FB's providing the width supported by a mobile front three.



Zaha will still play 20 games next season, but for me that would be an ideal formation.

As for who the other CM would be, in an ideal world I'd love a Cesc type player. I'm far from a muppet so I wouldn't be able to honestly give an opinion on the other players linked with us, but that's how I see that role played.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have your second type of midfielder alongside Carrick, leave microphone head where he is, play our wingers and sign a young Carrick back-up.
 
Seen a few people moot the diamond. I really don't like it and moreover Moyes has never played it. It won't happen.

He'll stick to what he knows which is 4411 (or variant of) which involves wingers and overlapping full backs. Now where have we seen that before...?
 
The Neviller said:
442 isn't the only formation to play those players I mentioned in.

Stupid post, even from the normally contrary Irwinwasntthinking.
Click to expand...

Touché

Carl said:
Seen a few people moot the diamond. I really don't like it and moreover Moyes has never played it. It won't happen.

He'll stick to what he knows which is 4411 (or variant of) which involves wingers and overlapping full backs. Now where have we seen that before...?
Click to expand...

Shit manager is/was shit.
 
Irwynwastheking said:
Touché



Shit manager is/was shit.
Click to expand...

:lol: For what it's worth, I'd go 4231 with a ball player type, the like of which you mentioned (Fabregas, Thiago, Gundogan etc) beside Carrick, and a 3 of Rooney(if he stays)/Kagawa and two "wide forwards" capable of going wide or coming inside, behind RVP.
 
The Neviller said:
:lol: For what it's worth, I'd go 4231 with a ball player type, the like of which you mentioned (Fabregas, Thiago, Gundogan etc) beside Carrick, and a 3 of Rooney(if he stays)/Kagawa and two "wide forwards" capable of going wide or coming inside, behind RVP.
Click to expand...

Carrick can be that ball player type and Fellaini a more traditional ball winner/box to box midfielder.

Would fit in with the formation that you suggested, which is also how I would like us to play
 
Carrick doesn't really run with the ball and beat a man though. That's the player I'd want to be the creative force in CM.

I know he's had a few nice turns recently that have been gif'd but in general Carrick get's the ball, looks up and passes. I'd love to have a better Tom Cleverly in the side if you know what I mean.
 
The Neviller said:
I'd rather have your second type of midfielder alongside Carrick, leave microphone head where he is, play our wingers and sign a young Carrick back-up.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Your posts have given me a good chuckle, thanks. Agree with pretty much everything. Fans not wanting Fellaini has almost become a crime against Moyes.
 
Theon said:
Carrick can be that ball player type and Fellaini a more traditional ball winner/box to box midfielder.

Would fit in with the formation that you suggested, which is also how I would like us to play
Click to expand...
I'm happy with Carrick as our defensive type, and also like that he's a ball player too. I don't think we need a ball winner type, I'd rather a tidy, sharp passing, box to box type, who can carry the ball well, rather than a bustling strong man type, which I see Fellaini as.

We all like different things, it's what makes football great, I'd just rather see a more technical footballer in there than Fellaini. If he comes, I hope he proves me wrong. He just wouldn't be what I'd hope to see us sign.
 
alastair said:
Fair enough. Maybe I am being a little harsh on him. It's going to be fascinating to see how Moyes adapts to being manager of a really top club and who he signs.
Click to expand...

Moyes record in the transfer market is good.

Lescott, Baines, Cahill, Neville, Howard, Jagielka, Pienaar, Saha, Yakubu, Arteta were all very good buys.

I'd say Fellaini and Miralas were also good signings and the likes of Gravesen, Andy Johnson were all good value for money.

I am sure I am wrong but the only truly bad buys he seems to have made were when time he spent on the likes of Van Der Meyde, James Beattie, Nuno Valente etc after selling Rooney and qualifying for the CL the following season.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Moyes record in the transfer market is good.

Lescott, Baines, Cahill, Howard, Jagielka, Pienaar, Saha, Yakubu, Arteta were all very good buys.

I'd say Fellaini and Miralas were also good signings and the likes of Gravesen, Andy Johnson were all good value for money.

I am sure I am wrong but the only truly bad buys he seems to have made were when time he spent on the likes of Van Der Meyde, James Beattie, Nuno Valente etc after selling Rooney and qualifying for the CL the following season.
Click to expand...

Jelavic, Biyaledinov, Kroldrup and Simon Davies. I would also argue Johnson wasnt exactly value for money they spent on him. He cost them £8.5m.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Moyes record in the transfer market is good.

Lescott, Baines, Cahill, Neville, Howard, Jagielka, Pienaar, Saha, Yakubu, Arteta were all very good buys.

I'd say Fellaini and Miralas were also good signings and the likes of Gravesen, Andy Johnson were all good value for money.

I am sure I am wrong but the only truly bad buys he seems to have made were when time he spent on the likes of Van Der Meyde, James Beattie, Nuno Valente etc after selling Rooney and qualifying for the CL the following season.
Click to expand...

:lol: You started so well.

In fact, you didn't. Alienhead is shit. Yeah, they made a profit, but only because Man City are fecking stupid.
 
RDCR07 said:
Jelavic, Biyaledinov
Click to expand...

I'd struggle to class Jelavic as a poor buy considering he only cost 5m. His form at the end of the 11/12 season was excellent. Poor season this time around but difficult to call him a poor signing.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Moyes record in the transfer market is good.

Lescott, Baines, Cahill, Neville, Howard, Jagielka, Pienaar, Saha, Yakubu, Arteta were all very good buys.

I'd say Fellaini and Miralas were also good signings and the likes of Gravesen, Andy Johnson were all good value for money.

I am sure I am wrong but the only truly bad buys he seems to have made were when time he spent on the likes of Van Der Meyde, James Beattie, Nuno Valente etc after selling Rooney and qualifying for the CL the following season.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Oh good lord, so many average players!
 
Irwynwastheking said:
Carrick doesn't really run with the ball and beat a man though. That's the player I'd want to be the creative force in CM.

I know he's had a few nice turns recently that have been gif'd but in general Carrick get's the ball, looks up and passes. I'd love to have a better Tom Cleverly in the side if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

In that formation I think the turning and running at the opposition should be more a trait of the AM - so Kagawa/Rooney.

I mean ideally you would have the passer/playmaker in the team also being capable of dribbling and beating a man but it's such a rarity. Is there any CM in the Premiership who fits that description? Maybe Dembele but he lacks the passing range of Carrick.. Yaya I guess is the closest, but this season Carrick has been better at dictating a game and defensively it's not even close anymore.

So I think it's very hard to get that complete player for the attacking/playmaking side of midfield. The ones who really fit the bill of playmaker/dribbler tend to play further forward, so Silva, Mata, Cazorla or Kagawa etc. Like you say you could partner him with another CM like Cleverley (or Thiago) but against the best teams there isn't enough defensive solidity IMO or a real aggressive ballwinner. Against the shitter teams away and pretty much anyone at OT I think that two would work, but in the tougher away fixtures like Chelsea away or Spurs with a tough Sandro/Dembele midfield I think it's too lightweight and a more natural ballwinner in Fellaini would be more suited.

I could see him getting plenty of goals anyway from midfield if he were at United with the amount of crosses we fling into the box
 
The Neviller said:
:lol: You started so well.

In fact, you didn't. Alienhead is shit. Yeah, they made a profit, but only because Man City are fecking stupid.
Click to expand...

HE signed Lescott for next to nothing and then flogged him for a huge profit. That's cracking transfer business.

He picked up Saha for free and got two good season out of him. Again decent move with the resources open to him.

Anyone who thinks Lescott was a bad signing by Moyes is a fecking idiot
 
Andrew~ said:
:lol:

Oh good lord, so many average players!
Click to expand...

You are missing the point though.

Everton have a shoe string budget and a poor wage budget and he has to use that to get them challenging for the top six every single season.

In terms of value for money, those signings have got them there and he has improved those players. Howard has been a consistent top six keeper for 7 seasons, Neville a very solid player, Lescott was sold for a huge fee, Jagielka is a consistent top six centre back, Baines would fetch a large fee and the likes of Pienaar, Arteta and Cahill supplied them with their attacking midfield competing for the top six on a shoe string budget. They are not the type of signings United would want but they were very good buys for Everton. The likes of Saha, Yakubu etc have got them the goals they needed to achieve that.

On the resources he has those players were all good signings and kept Everton competitive for a sixth place challenge every season since he sold Rooney. That's good going even before you consider he also had to sell the likes of Lescott, Rodwell, Arteta and Pienaar(before resigning him).
 
Theon said:
In that formation I think the turning and running at the opposition should be more a trait of the AM - so Kagawa/Rooney.

I mean ideally you would have the passer/playmaker in the team also being capable of dribbling and beating a man but it's such a rarity. Is there any CM in the Premiership who fits that description? Maybe Dembele but he lacks the passing range of Carrick.. Yaya I guess is the closest, but this season Carrick has been better at dictating a game and defensively it's not even close anymore.

So I think it's very hard to get that complete player for the attacking/playmaking side of midfield. Like you say you could partner him with another CM like Cleverley (or Thiago) but against the best teams there isn't enough defensive solidity IMO or a real aggressive ballwinner. Against the shitter teams away and pretty much anyone at OT I think that two would work, but in the tougher away fixtures like Chelsea away or Spurs with a tough Sandro/Dembele midfield I think it's too lightweight and a more natural ballwinner in Fellaini would be more suited.

I could see him getting plenty of goals anyway from midfield if he were at United with the amount of crosses we fling into the box
Click to expand...

Yeah, fair points. We should be adjusting our formation based on who we are playing.

That's kinda why I like Fellini because he would afford us so much flexibility.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
HE signed Lescott for next to nothing and then flogged him for a huge profit. That's cracking transfer business.

He picked up Saha for free and got two good season out of him. Again decent move with the resources open to him.

Anyone who thinks Lescott was a bad signing by Moyes is a fecking idiot
Click to expand...

He's only a good signing because some stupid oil rich team spunked a ludicrous fee on him. He's an average player, at best.
 
Ahh, TN, Lescott was a very good player at Everton's level. I agree that City should never have spunked close to 20m (IIRC) on him but that shouldn't deflect from the fact he was good with Everton.
 
Andrew~ said:
:lol:

Oh good lord, so many average players!
Click to expand...

He's an idiot that Moyes. Clearly should have signed the likes of Benzema, Ozil, Sanchez, and Fabregas. I mean, they were all available at one point or another over the past few years. Whats he been doing!?
 
Yeah I think if Lescott would have stayed at Everton, he would have been one of England's best defenders by now. He was still improving every year. Instead now he is a nobody.
 
Sam said:
He's an idiot that Moyes. Clearly should have signed the likes of Benzema, Ozil, Sanchez, and Fabregas. I mean, they were all available at one point or another over the past few years. Whats he been doing!?
Click to expand...

And lets not forget that Moyes passed up the chance to be Liverpool manager on numerous occasions.

No hunger. That's his problem.
 
The Neviller said:
He's only a good signing because some stupid oil rich team spunked a ludicrous fee on him. He's an average player, at best.
Click to expand...

Considering he was signed from the championship and turned in 3 consistent season for Everton he was a very good signing for them anyway as he cost very little. The fact he was then sold on for a huge profit makes him an excellent signing for them.

Whilst I don't think he is worth what they paid he does have a Premiership winner's medal and was a regular last season. He's PL proven and a solid player.

I remember watching Everton in the cup competitions a lot in 08/09 when they gave Chelsea two very good games in the Carling Cup semi and FA cup final. Moyes built a squad good enough to do that with these types of signings.
 
If you buy Fellaini it's an indicator of Moyes fecking up before he even has the reins.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.