I'm not basing this on anything, but Fellaini is probably better than someone like Strootman, who half the Caf wants despite having never seen the guy kick a ball. A few of those that have seen him think he's not that great, but his signing would probably be celebrated on here if it happened. It's hard to weigh up this place at times.
Fellaini
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I'm not basing this on anything, but Fellaini is probably better than someone like Strootman, who half the Caf wants despite having never seen the guy kick a ball. A few of those that have seen him think he's not that great, but his signing would probably be celebrated on here if it happened. It's hard to weigh up this place at times.
That's for sure
Honestly, I believe he'd be a good signing, a quality player, in both attack and midfield. I'd be quite happy to see him at United, but not as this marquee answer to all our problems everyone is dying for(not even sure that one ultra CM even exits), as a quality squad player. Our midfield basically consists of Carrick and some kids, we're going to need more than one big midfield signing, of course, it all depends on whether Fellaini would be happy as a squad player.
Strootman is the youngest to ever captain Holland NT, and was captain for PSV. And he's already the regular of Holland NT and one of the best team in Eredivisie at the age of 22. And that's by playing as CM.
The Mirror....or it might have been the Mail, anyway one of them reckon Mourinho wants him at Chelsea.
I've asked this before, had no definitive answer but you seem to know what you're talking about. Is he really that good, or is there just a lack of quality CMs in Holland right now?
Does he live up to the hype, does he consistently put good performances and dominate other midfields? Is he they type of player we've all been waiting for, i.e. a ball winning, box to box, destroyer who can pass, defend and attack?
There are plenty of youtube of him. Some videos are pretty impressive for a young player like him. I've watched him mainly when playing with Holland NT, so no idea about his PSV performance.
He isn't that agile, and not exactly put in a lot of tackles or aggressive in pressing. He's more of a passer, good ball control, and good vision. He's an upgrade version of Henderson (Liverpool), or a Carrick lite at Spurs. I said 'lite' because I haven't seen him taking control the game as Carrick's Spurs day, but their role and style are similar. I think that's why some don't rate him that high, as it takes years for people to rate Carrick as well.
But, to captain PSV (before van Bommel came in) and as reserve captain for his NT are pretty impressive. Just to show his leadership quality, and the respect his manager(s) has for him.
I'm mixing up nothing. I have spoken to you more than once on the subject that is Anderson. Just like I've done with some other posters who I wont mention by name. My personal views and stance on him are not remotely alien to you.
Plain missing the point. I never said its just you who held that view. Rather I've stated clearly that you are still the only person on these boards trying his best to convince me to switch to your view, even though you know for certain what my position is. Yet you just don't get it. If you had even the slightest respect for my position on Anderson, you wouldn't be wasting your time and mine discussing it more with me. For we are never going to see eye to eye on the issue. Period.
You are on your own then. I really don't have time for this thing you want to suddenly engage in. Frankly, I'm not discussing Anderson with you any longer. Next time you jump on my comments about him you will simply be met with silence.
Lets summarise;
Next season our midfield options are likely to be Carrick, Cleverley and maybe Anderson. I'm not counting Giggs or Kagawa as I don't believe either of them should be played as a CM, similarly not counting Jones as he should be playing at CB.
Realistically we need at least 1, probably more, in order to compete at the highest level. We also probably need a winger, and maybe a new striker as well, depending on who stays and who goes. Realistically none of our academy/youth players are yet ready for anything more than a bit part role.
It's pretty safe to say that we aren't going to forking out hundreds of millions this summer as unlike some, we do not have a bottomless pit of money. With that in mind, our priority should probably be to get the squad fleshed back out to a competitive level, add quality where possible, and - especially with the CM position - not go for anything too risky.
If we sign a Strootman (who I wager would cost more than £20m), who has never played in the PL, then it is a risk. It's quite possibly a case of the grass looking greener on the continent. I'm not saying he would be a bad signing, I'm saying he isn't proven and would represent a major risk in a position that we probably can't afford NOT to strengthen this summer.
Fellaini would cost a similar amount and is proven in the PL. He has shown that he likes the big games, and along with Baines has dragged Everton through this season. He has shown in previous seasons that he can play a deeper role, recently Moyes stated that he was only played as a #10 this season out of necessity.
Between the two, I would take Fellaini, and more importantly I reckon Moyes would also take Fellaini.
Next season our midfield options are likely to be Carrick, Cleverley and maybe Anderson. I'm not counting Giggs or Kagawa as I don't believe either of them should be played as a CM, similarly not counting Jones as he should be playing at CB.
Realistically we need at least 1, probably more, in order to compete at the highest level. We also probably need a winger, and maybe a new striker as well, depending on who stays and who goes. Realistically none of our academy/youth players are yet ready for anything more than a bit part role.
It's pretty safe to say that we aren't going to forking out hundreds of millions this summer as unlike some, we do not have a bottomless pit of money. With that in mind, our priority should probably be to get the squad fleshed back out to a competitive level, add quality where possible, and - especially with the CM position - not go for anything too risky.
If we sign a Strootman (who I wager would cost more than £20m), who has never played in the PL, then it is a risk. It's quite possibly a case of the grass looking greener on the continent. I'm not saying he would be a bad signing, I'm saying he isn't proven and would represent a major risk in a position that we probably can't afford NOT to strengthen this summer.
Fellaini would cost a similar amount and is proven in the PL. He has shown that he likes the big games, and along with Baines has dragged Everton through this season. He has shown in previous seasons that he can play a deeper role, recently Moyes stated that he was only played as a #10 this season out of necessity.
Between the two, I would take Fellaini, and more importantly I reckon Moyes would also take Fellaini.
Is this in the same way that Arteta wasn't a top four player?
I think it all depends on what style we end up choosing to play. There are not many better players that cheap for a direct style. However in any other sort of football he drops several levels and if we intend to achieve some sort of modern, possession based style then he is far from needed.
It also depends on Valencia and Nani. If they find form we will not be in need of wingers at all with Zaha also coming in.
Assuming Nani and Valencia are not considered wanted by Moyes then Fellaini will be a likely prospect for the CM role as we will be short on money after the purchase of new wingers.
Assuming Nani or Valencia are considered wanted by Moyes then Fellaini seems very unlikely as we will be able to choose any midfielder and Fellaini is not near one of the best then.
It also depends on Valencia and Nani. If they find form we will not be in need of wingers at all with Zaha also coming in.
Assuming Nani and Valencia are not considered wanted by Moyes then Fellaini will be a likely prospect for the CM role as we will be short on money after the purchase of new wingers.
Assuming Nani or Valencia are considered wanted by Moyes then Fellaini seems very unlikely as we will be able to choose any midfielder and Fellaini is not near one of the best then.
That's the issue for me. Being a regular international player means nothing. Plenty of slightly above average midfielders have been regulars for good national sides - Kleberson is a good example, Van Bommel another and I can think of a few others over the years. Its not just midfielders either - look at the caps Dirk Kuyt has. Sometimes players just fit a system.
He might do very well in central midfield in a team with Sneijder, Robben and Van Persie in front of him, but so might plenty of other players.
Is this the Manager whio called him "the dutch Gareth Barry"?
Areteta wasn't a top 4 player as a more attacking CM at Everton, he gets by in the more defensive position for us.
Except for his inability to defend, of course.
I'm usually very opposed to your view of "not top 4 quality" as I think you could get players that make the step up due to them thriving at increased levels.
In this case though I think you're right. It's not even a case of pure ability either, it's more a case of square peg round hole. I don't want us to sign Fellaini as he'd force us to play a different type of game to be effective, one that I don't think would benefit us in the long run.
Edit: addressed to Rowems' post above.
His positioning and ability to read the play is excellent. He doesn't need to be robust or a tough tackling player to be able to 'defend.'
Can Carrick defend?
His positioning and ability to read the play is excellent. He doesn't need to be robust or a tough tackling player to be able to 'defend.'
Can Carrick defend?
He's done so very impressively this season
In principle you're right, but come on, Carrick as a holding midfielder is a class above Arteta.
In terms of pure defensive ability it's not even a contest.
EDIT: Not saying Arteta's not a very good midfielder, or that he's not defended well this season, it's just that Carrick's a level or two above that.
I'm not comparing their ability as players, I was pointing out that Carrick defends in a similar way.
Well, okay, in that case I'd agree as I said.
Although Carrick's toughened up quite a bit this last season and a half, and it's really helped his game, I might add.
I think Arteta and Carrick are very similar players actually. Carrick has had a slightly better season, and probably a little better as a passer and defensively, but clearly Arteta is better going forward.
What style is that? We going to play hoof ball to the centre of midfield?
They are very similar indeed.
I feel Carrick has come back from his extended period of poor/below-par form with vengeance and is now one of the most dependable (consistently great) Midfielders in doing the rounds.
I was almost besides myself when we didn't sign a replacement for Song, leaving Arteta as our midfield anchor - but he more than proved me wrong. It's a shame he is getting on in years though.
I think that Arteta is at least the equal of Carrick. The hard truth is that for players like Arteta and Cazorla, whilst Arsenal continue to be an anonymous team, the are not going to get the mainstream plaudits that their abilities deserve.
Cazorla is one of the very best in the league in his position.
Arteta is a slight level below that, but still a very good footballer.
Doesn't sound very good at all. Thank feck, for him, you aren't his agent 'cause you've made him sound incredibly limited and highly overrated and that's only from the very little you've seen him play well.
He'd want to be significantly better than you've described or he can feck off and I'll drag Felliani to OT myself.
Carrick is in the top handful of midfielders in the league, and absolutely the best midfielder of his kind.
Arteta is nowhere close to Carrick.
The bizarre self-deprecation from United fans continues....
I think Fellaini would be an excellent partner next to Carrick.
Only in big games. Unnecessary defensive strength while compromising our attack for 90% of our league games.
He still didn't get a look in for the player of the season award whilst Hazard was nominated.
Arteta makes more tackles and interceptions than Carrick, he makes more passes and is more accurate with those passes. The two are almost level on accurate long passes. Whilst Arteta scores more (he takes some pens) Carrick does creates slightly more. It is safe to say that Arteta is the best passer in the Premier League when you factor in volume and accuracy.
I am not sure how you can deduce that Arteta is 'nowhere close to Carrick'. I would be interested to hear your measures for that assessment.
It isn't that I don't agree with your assessment of Carrick, but I would bet my house that if Arteta played for us you would be lavishing the same praise on him that you do Carrick.
Agreed. We don't really need him against midtable PL teams. Cleverley should be more than enough to do the job.
Nah, it's the other way round. We overrrate Carrick because he's so easily our best midfielder. He's not top class... it shouldn't be hard for us to see this when we've had Scholes, Keane, Ince, Robson etc. in recent history.
Arteta is a similar quality of player.
That's crazy bias to show really. Especially the self deprecation bit seeing as Carrick has received nothing but praise this season and has certainly been the better of the two, but Arteta is not "nowhere near". There's not that much in it.
There's be very few top class CMs if you set the bar that high.
'Top class' is obviously going to mean different things to different people, but yeah the word 'top' does suggest setting the bar quite high dunnit?
Carrick is a fine example of a great pro and an excellent footballer. He's collected a fair few international caps - but never really shone on the international stage, even if he could have had a few more chances to do so (not that he did particularly well for England in his first 15 games).
United fans looking to cast him as one of the best in the world - and there are plenty - are wrong, though, surely, even after a very good season.
Carrick is a fine example of a great pro and an excellent footballer. He's collected a fair few international caps - but never really shone on the international stage, even if he could have had a few more chances to do so (not that he did particularly well for England in his first 15 games).
United fans looking to cast him as one of the best in the world - and there are plenty - are wrong, though, surely, even after a very good season.
High? Definitely. Setting it such that only a few club legends make the grade? Too high for me personally.
Ince isn't a club legend. I'd still say he was better than Carrick though - not sure everyone would agree with that.
The problem here is that 'best in the world' also means different things to different people. Right now, in his position, Carrick is indeed one of the best in the world. Statistically almost no midfielder in Europe has had a better season, and actually watching him this season that's not surprising.
But obviously as a player, over the course of his career, 'one of the best in the world' would be absurdly generous.
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