I don't believe aerial duels can count chesting the ball down otherwise Fellaini would be topping every aerial duel list in the world. The mans nipples are like magnets for the football.
Fellaini
- Thread starter Bilbo
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I don't care you lot who are against signing him. My summer would be big relieve if we sign this guy. Everyone is talking about Bale who took Spur to 5th in the league, but Fellaini also took Everton to 6th place, just one behind Spur with considerably less quality players around.
Can we just end this long drawn out argument on this note.
Yeah he's probably more known for what he does with his chest than with his feet. Admittedly I don't watch Everton very often, but when I do, Fellaini chesting down the ball is usually my overriding memory. I'm not keen on him at all. For Everton yes, but I wouldn't like to see him in a United shirt anytime soon.
Dortmund have conceded 42 goals in the Bundesliga this season, I'm not sure they have shown anything in terms of how to best defend.
With largely the same team last season, they conceded much less. They have had a great CL run where they only lost one game. Stats. Heh.
I'm not sure which point you are trying to make. Klopp himself has criticized Dortmund's defensive liability.
Fine post.
Of course. Their concentration in the Bundesliga has cost them this season but that has little to do with their tactical system which Theon is alluding to. I was merely pointing out you can use stats in any way you like which is why I rarely use them.
I'm not criticising their tactical system at all, I love the way they play.
But Brightonian's comment on Dortmund 'showing' how to defend is ridiclulous and way over the top.
No Fellaini for me. Modric or Marchisio instead.
I doubt there would be much difference in the selling clubs' transfer fee demands.
Moreover, Fellaini's obvious prowess in the air isn't going to make us retain the Premier League or win the Champions League is it?
I doubt there would be much difference in the selling clubs' transfer fee demands.
Moreover, Fellaini's obvious prowess in the air isn't going to make us retain the Premier League or win the Champions League is it?
No, but he's certainly an improvement of what we have. He's strong, physical, great in the air, good on the ball, a decent passer, has a brilliant right foot on him.
I can't find a site which shows distance covered but there was an article in the independent which was stating how his distance covered in 2011/2012 when he was in midfield and had the best stats for a defensive minded midfielder in the league, so he's not as lazy as people think.
He tracks back when he's asked to, but the thing is, why would you play him up too and then tell him to track all the way back constantly, only for him to not be up too to win the ball in the air because he has tracked back? It doesn't make sense which is why this season he has looked more relaxed. He had been hovering around that attacking third, you see him down the wing winning the ball and he pressures the ball in that area and succeeds by making them play poor passes or winning the ball.
There are times when players in the midfield area will need to win balls in the air too and 90% of the time he will gain it for you either by heading it or chesting it. Pretty much all the time he wins the ball by chesting it down he plays it off to another player, with a nice through ball or just laying it for the more creative player to play the pass. He'd be a great partner for Carrick as his presence would make people double up or take more notice of him, freeing space for Carrick to play the ball into when Fellaini lays it to him.
He tracks back when he's asked to, but the thing is, why would you play him up too and then tell him to track all the way back constantly, only for him to not be up too to win the ball in the air because he has tracked back? It doesn't make sense which is why this season he has looked more relaxed. He had been hovering around that attacking third, you see him down the wing winning the ball and he pressures the ball in that area and succeeds by making them play poor passes or winning the ball.
There are times when players in the midfield area will need to win balls in the air too and 90% of the time he will gain it for you either by heading it or chesting it. Pretty much all the time he wins the ball by chesting it down he plays it off to another player, with a nice through ball or just laying it for the more creative player to play the pass. He'd be a great partner for Carrick as his presence would make people double up or take more notice of him, freeing space for Carrick to play the ball into when Fellaini lays it to him.
Dortmund show a way to defend. It's very high risk but when you have the right elements, it's hard to defend against.
"Dortmund have shown that effective midfield defending is about work-rate, high team pressing and tactical discipline - small, creative, box-to-box players can do it just as well as Mascherano types."
I don't see alot wrong with this other than Brightonian saying "is about...." How Dortmund defend can be quite effective. It's well known they and Bayern have just adopted ideas from the past as well as Barca's method of pressing and made it their own. Are you disputing that notion?
Defending in midfield with players such as Mascherano or other types of DMs is simply another method to defend.
Completely disagree with the Khedira criticism. Saying he offers little creativity is probably fair but saying he has little progression is mental - if anything he's the closest to a box to box midfielder in the Madrid squad, much more so than Modric. He's always charging forward and looking to come into the box late, to call him a purely defensive player is doing him a massive disservice. The thing about sacrificing a winger isn't quite true either as Di Maria, Ozil and Ronaldo have been sat in front for the majority of the season. Meanwhile Modric might pick up the ball in deep positions but he will rarely tackle or intercept, certainly in comparison with the classic box-to-box midfielders of yesteryear.
That's great for the PL SilentWitness, but in Europe, I'm sure we'd be shown up with that kind of setup. I don't mind if the lad is in our squad but I definitely do not see the need for him. The midfield we have bar one midfield signing is enough for the PL. I venture to say it's Europe where we just aren't quite there yet. Signing a quality CM who can improve our quality of play in midfield will help us make the next step in my opinion. I have seen no indication Fellaini can do that.
Many players would be an improvement on what we have, it's just selecting the "right" one, not necessarily the best one.
IMO, he's just not as good as the likes of Modric and Marchisio (& Vidal) possess, and Everton would want a lot of money for Fellaini.
It's not though really, he just doesn't want Fellaini so has created an argument to fit that notion. The heart of what he says is this,
"Yes, the Fellaini-Carrick approach would probably work. It would be 'fine'. But really, you have to lose a winger in order to make up for the lack of progression and attacking potential in the centre."
But thats just bollocks. There would be nothing wrong with this for example
---Carrick--Fellaini---
Nani---Kagawa---Bale
You don't need to lose a winger at all, it's just nonsense.
Then the team he uses to back this up is Madrid needing to use Modric when as I said before the best football they played by an absolute mile was before Di Maria got injured in '11-'12.
That was pretty much with,
---Alonso--Khedira----
Di Maria--Ozil--Ronaldo
There was no need for Modric and they played their best football under Mourinho. So it's just bollocks really.
Really cina? so you are now conceding that Carrick and alonso are indeed comparable?
funny that you cut off a conversation with me a while back by saying something derogatory along the lines of:
if you think carrick and alonso are similar types of players then there is no point in debating with you.
Carrick is much more like Busquets than Alonso you claimed.
Really cina? so you are now conceding that Carrick and alonso are indeed comparable?
funny that you cut off a conversation with me a while back by saying something derogatory along the lines of:
if you think carrick and alonso are similar types of players then there is no point in debating with you.
Carrick is much more like Busquets than Alonso you claimed.
I have no recollection of this debate so I'll take your word on it, but I'm sure it was before we really got into this season, wasn't it? Carrick's passing range this season has been far beyond anything he's shown before.
Anyway, I more so thought the post was very good because of the comparison he made as to how he thought the team would play, not for actually full on comparing the players. I still don't think Alonso and Carrick are like-for-like.
Its not like he's replacing a Robson or a Keane. Would he impove us? Only one answer there...
There are lots of midfielders who would improve us though, it's not exactly difficult to do right now, is it? Fellaini would be a pretty expensive acquisition considering how much he would actually improve us.
He bullied us at the head of a 5 man midfield. The season before he dropped deep into midfield second half and his club came from 3-1 down to draw with us and cost us the league at OT. The only reason I brought up that game is because people act like he is a championship level player.
When I talk of Fellaini as a proper midfielder. This is what I refer to:http://www.eplindex.com/22943/fellaini-best-position-stats-analysis.html
There are always lots of midfielders. Thing is about 95% of the targets spouted are non realistic signings. He isnt.
Its also not like we were ever going to get someone on the cheap either. People seem to feel we will suddenly turn into to Stoke if we sign him.
Spot on
Yes, let's just all agree a post is correct, even if we don't think it is and disagree with it's content.
We don't all think Fellaini is a "bloody good midfielder".
No, you're right, his performances as a box to box midfielder at United have definitely shown that he has all the attributes to do well there. If it weren't for injuries...
You're so annoying sometimes. All of the time you act as if you know football way, way better than anyone on here, come to weird conclusions and stick by your views without accepting that other people may think differently.
Keep going. You are still boring me, regardless. We've done that topic to death and you know by know my position on Anderson, and why, and my defence of him, like the back of your own hands! Yet here you are still trying to force me to view him like you do. ..yet you wonder why I replied with a symbol of boredom.....
No. It's you who is truly annoying. You have insisted on a myth about Anderson and expect everyone without exception to buy into it regardless of existence of valid evidence to the contrary, or their personal views. So you repeat it to them again and again ad naseaum as if by some miracle you'd change their views.
The only person in here acting like a football know it all and not caring about other people's views is you. As per usual. Well done.
I agree there is a difference. Yet still a number on here have stuck with the unfair view. Even refusing to take into account his actual statistics as a proper midfielder from the previous season, in their arguments. Prefering to instead use the statistics of him as a number 10 as the basis for their ''he isn't a midfielder' argument.
I can understand people against his signing on stylistic grounds. That's valid and fair. I can't, however, get being against it based on urban legend and deliberate misconstruing of available evidence. I'd rather a person plain came out and said they didn't like him, period. (The way I'm utterly biased against a Robben or a Defoe for example.. )Than do such.
It's the opinion that signing Fellaini would mean us playing a hoof ball style, that's annoying me. I highly doubt the people saying things like that have actually watched him vs any other opposition but oursleves.
He'd only be second to Carrick as a CM, if we signed him. That's no insult to him by any means as he's still only 25 and improving. Carrick has also been up there with the best in Europe this season.
He'd only be second to Carrick as a CM, if we signed him. That's no insult to him by any means as he's still only 25 and improving. Carrick has also been up there with the best in Europe this season.
No one is actually saying that, as far as I can see. The debate is about whether or not he's a good enough midfielder (since clearly we wouldn't be playing him in his number 10 role), and whether or not he'd be used as back-up for Carrick or alongside him.
Not sure that's true, really. Haven't both Moyes and the club said that he won't raid Everton for players? http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/12-13/news/24611.html
Or maybe they just don't think he's work paying a reported £23m for? Cabaye could do a job just as well, actually better (in my opinion) and wouldn't cost us that much. If we were to fork out that much on a midfielder I'd hope it'd be someone of a higher standard than him.
Fellaini is only a "realistic target" because he used to play for Moyes, we're Man Utd, I'm sure there are plenty of realistic targets out there we can get.
Which ones?
I do think he will end up at United. He's a more realistic target than most players named in the "United in this summer transfer window" thread.
there isnt though....
If we sign fellaini its madness. We passed on Dembele, somehow there was no value when Vidal signed on the cheap, and we let Pogba go.
Our Central midfield needs quality not thugs like Fellaini.
Our Central midfield needs quality not thugs like Fellaini.
I just named one. I'm not going to name out every midfielder we've been linked with and say whether they are or aren't realistic. Why do people always have to ask questions like that?
He's a more realistic target because he former manager now manages us, basically. it doesn't mean that there aren't still other realistic midfield targets out there that our club, arguably the biggest in the world, or close to it, can sign.
In the entire world of football, there are no realistic midfield targets we can buy other than Fellaini?
I think a lot of people don't like Fellaini's style, or think we need it. I've never wished we had someone who chests down the ball all game to lay it off to Carrick which is even what SilentWitness who I assume watches him week in week out suggests his strength is. Fellaini has conceded the most fouls per game in the PL this season. Ahead of Chiek Tiote, who seems to have done nothing but foul people all season. He flings elbows all the time, and everytime we have played against him he has irritated me but never in an envious way. Yes he adds another dimension, but I don't think it's a dimension that compliments the way that we play. I personally feel Moyes will realise this.
No, I've not talked to you about Anderson even once actually. You're mixing things up a little.
Yes, because it's just me who thinks that Anderson isn't really that good and is a bit lazy (which is proven by his consistent lack of stamina and fitness) which prevented him from becoming a player he could be.
You're going to need to find a better argument than just throw back everything I say to you back at me. This is really a bit childish.
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