Fellaini

[apotheosis]

Just a bit nick picking: He stream rolled Cleverley AND Anderson as CM. Carrick was a centerback. He bullied us using his height. It's the same as many average strong strikers used to bully Evans in the past, but I don't see us looking to buy them.

While we are nitpicking, it was actually Scholes and cleverley in midfield playing in front of Carrick and vidic. Anderson was sub.

'Using his height' is simply not giving him credit. He did use his physical presence and his movement to dominate us, but it was the way he did it that impressed. He took balls on his chest and brought teammates into play rather than just flicking balls on. This gave us little chance to win any second balls which is usually the most effective ploy against height.

He also turned the game in the 4-4 last season, and it was his determination and influence which stood out in that game rather than his height. Scored a decent volley too, up against Rio and Evans this time with Carrick back in midfield.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I can't be arsed to find it on twitter, but some small time journo, who has a picture taken with him, met him today and fellaini told him he is staying at everton. Probably doesn't mean much even if he did say that, but yeah.

 

[Walrus]

Put it this way, if Chelsea picked up Fellaini and played him against us as a midfielder, I would be concerned seeing him against our midfield and defence.

We have shown time and time again over the past couple of seasons particularly, that we are prone to being bullied by big, physical players. We need to inject some steel and physicality into our midfield or lesser teams will continue to use this.

Fellaini's all round game is underrated as I was saying yesterday with Feed Me in this thread. His main strength is the physical side and his aerial ability for sure, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have decent ball control and can pick a pass. Not that that is hugely important as he wouldnt be a playmaker for us and wouldnt be expected to be providing the defense splitting through balls.

For the cost (which in todays market, isnt a lot for any playing moving to a top club) he would be a good option. The only sorts of player who would be undisputably better would be the likes of Wilshere and Fabregas, who are either not realistically available or would simply cost too much. The likes of Strootman are alternatives and I havent seen much of him, but he is not proven in the PL for a start, so if we regarded the two to be of similar calibre, Fellaini would surely edge it on that basis.

As mentioned before, Fellaini is also a "big game player". He raises his game against the big clubs and makes an impact - something which recently I have felt we dont have many players capable of.

The disadvantage with Fellaini is the dirty side, the elbows he is constantly throwing out. He would need to cut that out of his game but im sure he would be able to do that.

 

[manutddjw]

He's been good when he's been playing behind the striker and Everton play a style that benefits a physical presence up front, but when he's played as a proper midfielder he's been decent to poor. Attack wise he's okay, but defensively he gets called for fouls more often than not. I also think referees will be targeting him in the upcoming season because he has a bad reputation, like Suarez has with diving.

He's a good player, but I think if we signed him he'd be like signing Berbatov where we paid way too much for a player who'll need us to adjust our style of play to get the best out of him, and I hope we don't have to do that for a big man type player, because as I stated I don't rate him as a central midfielder. I'd be more happy if we signed Cabaye than Fellaini.

 

[apotheosis]

Wouldn't be the first average player to have a good game against us either. In fact the latter happens a lot more often than the former.

You wouldn't have to sacrifice Jones, no. But the other team simply has to do something similar and you've wasted a midfield slot that could have been filled by someone genuinely world class, rather than someone who occasionally looks vaguely world class in a very specific role when played against a team who doesn't know how to nullify that approach.

I don't hate the idea of signing Fellaini. I just think it would be mad if there's any chance of getting anyone better, and there are a lot of better midfielders out there.

Who would you be talking about specifically? Who could play in the PL alongside Carrick as well as covering Carrick? Veron was world class remember. Bottom line is Utd have signed no foreign midfielder in 2 decades who has been a success. Will that change under Moyes? Was it just all Fergie's fault we have signed only Carrick who has been a success since signing Roy Keane 20 years ago? Possibly, but the point is buying a more talented foreigner unfamiliar with the PL hasn't been a fruitful ploy for us for the past 20 years.

Fellaini ticks a lot of what we lack in midfield. Power, leadership, presence and determination. If you want a bit more flair then you still leave us short of effective cover for Carrick. That is my biggest concern, if anything happens to carrick who have we got? Fellaini would give us both cover and a combative partner for carrick, as well as offering an occasional threat up front.

I really don't know who many of you think we are going to buy. Toure, Martinez or Alonso would be great, but we are not getting them. Moutinho or Veratti would be great, but for how much and how sure are we they would settle any better than the other foreign mids we have previously signed?

Fellaini would improve our general midfield options and would finally offer some competent cover for the only defensive minded cm in our squad, that alone is a huge plus point in my view.

 

[Brightonian]

Who would you be talking about specifically? Who could play in the PL alongside Carrick as well as covering Carrick? Veron was world class remember. Bottom line is Utd have signed no foreign midfielder in 2 decades who has been a success. Will that change under Moyes? Was it just all Fergie's fault we have signed only Carrick who has been a success since signing Roy Keane 20 years ago? Possibly, but the point is buying a more talented foreigner unfamiliar with the PL hasn't been a fruitful ploy for us for the past 20 years.

Fellaini ticks a lot of what we lack in midfield. Power, leadership, presence and determination. If you want a bit more flair then you still leave us short of effective cover for Carrick. That is my biggest concern, if anything happens to carrick who have we got? Fellaini would give us both cover and a combative partner for carrick, as well as offering an occasional threat up front.

I really don't know who many of you think we are going to buy. Toure, Martinez or Alonso would be great, but we are not getting them. Moutinho or Veratti would be great, but for how much and how sure are we they would settle any better than the other foreign mids we have previously signed?

Fellaini would improve our general midfield options and would finally offer some competent cover for the only defensive minded cm in our squad, that alone is a huge plus point in my view.

I'd have no problem with him as cover for Carrick. In fact, I think he's probably amongst the strongest candidates for that job. But I wouldn't ever want to see him partner Carrick. I dispute that having a more creative player next to Carrick leaves us short defensively. The days when to have a defensively sound midfield you had to have physical, defensive, destructive midfielders are gone. Dortmund have shown that effective midfield defending is about work-rate, high team pressing and tactical discipline - small, creative, box-to-box players can do it just as well as Mascherano types.

 

[gza the genius]

I'd have no problem with him as cover for Carrick. In fact, I think he's probably amongst the strongest candidates for that job. But I wouldn't ever want to see him partner Carrick. I dispute that having a more creative player next to Carrick leaves us short defensively. The days when to have a defensively sound midfield you had to have physical, defensive, destructive midfielders are gone. Dortmund have shown that effective midfield defending is about work-rate, high team pressing and tactical discipline - small, creative, box-to-box players can do it just as well as Mascherano types.

I completely agree with this, Fellaini should only come if he's used as cover for Carrick. Even then he's probably too expensive for the role when you could get Wanyama for probably half the price. We don't need an improvement on Carrick, we need a proper partner for him and someone to cover for him when injured/rested.

 

[Ekeke]

I can't be arsed to find it on twitter, but some small time journo, who has a picture taken with him, met him today and fellaini told him he is staying at everton. Probably doesn't mean much even if he did say that, but yeah.

Especially as I can remember him saying he was leaving before last season, then stayed. So it seems like he'd be the last to know what he's doing

 

[Theon]

Dortmund have shown that effective midfield defending is about work-rate, high team pressing and tactical discipline - small, creative, box-to-box players can do it just as well as Mascherano types.

Dortmund have conceded 42 goals in the Bundesliga this season, I'm not sure they have shown anything in terms of how to best defend.

 

[Ekeke]

Put it this way, if Chelsea picked up Fellaini and played him against us as a midfielder, I would be concerned seeing him against our midfield and defence.

And leave out who? Lampard? Better player. Ramires? Better player. If they signed him and played him against us I'd be happy that they'd have weakened a midfield that tends to get on the top of ours.

We have shown time and time again over the past couple of seasons particularly, that we are prone to being bullied by big, physical players. We need to inject some steel and physicality into our midfield or lesser teams will continue to use this.

All top teams have to play against this and all smaller teams will employ that tactic against them because finding large, physical players is cheap because they are one dimensional.

Fellaini's all round game is underrated as I was saying yesterday with Feed Me in this thread. His main strength is the physical side and his aerial ability for sure, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have decent ball control and can pick a pass. Not that that is hugely important as he wouldnt be a playmaker for us and wouldnt be expected to be providing the defense splitting through balls.

But he would be expected to shield the defence, something he's never done particularly well. He also has a problem getting booked every single game and flailing his elbows around like a belgian target man who needs a haircut. Wheres the logic in signing a £25 million player and playing him where you will see none of his strengths, which are in the final third. Or alternatively, you'll see him charge up the pitch to become an extra attacker and show off his hard to deal with ability there... Leaving a massive gaping hole in front of our defence while we wait for our slowest player not in the defence, to get back and do his actual job.

For the cost (which in todays market, isnt a lot for any playing moving to a top club) he would be a good option. The only sorts of player who would be undisputably better would be the likes of Wilshere and Fabregas, who are either not realistically available or would simply cost too much. The likes of Strootman are alternatives and I havent seen much of him, but he is not proven in the PL for a start, so if we regarded the two to be of similar calibre, Fellaini would surely edge it on that basis.

Fellaini isnt proven as a £25 million midfielder in the premier league either. If he was we'd have had hordes of people demanding he was signed last summer. We didnt. Why? Because its only after he started playing as a target man that he became flavour of the month and would somehow, suddenly, sort out our midfield despite not playing there this season. And in the few games he did, he was the same as previous seasons. Decent.

As mentioned before, Fellaini is also a "big game player". He raises his game against the big clubs and makes an impact - something which recently I have felt we dont have many players capable of.

You mean aside from Rooney, RVP, Nani, Hernandez, De Gea and Rafael?

The disadvantage with Fellaini is the dirty side, the elbows he is constantly throwing out. He would need to cut that out of his game but im sure he would be able to do that.

One of multiple disadvantages, sure. But then he wouldnt be the first player with pointy elbows in everyone's face who played for us. Although being reminded of Heinze wouldnt be a good thing... If he didnt cost so much maybe it wouldnt be such a big deal. But for the kind of money Fellaini will cost, you'd expect the real deal. Not a good target man, a decent midfielder and a dirty player. People talk all the time about "these days" and money not getting you much. Who was the last player who was bought for £20 million + who is a dirty central midfielder who doesnt play in midfield, but is actually a good target man?

 

[apotheosis]

I'd have no problem with him as cover for Carrick. In fact, I think he's probably amongst the strongest candidates for that job. But I wouldn't ever want to see him partner Carrick. I dispute that having a more creative player next to Carrick leaves us short defensively. The days when to have a defensively sound midfield you had to have physical, defensive, destructive midfielders are gone. Dortmund have shown that effective midfield defending is about work-rate, high team pressing and tactical discipline - small, creative, box-to-box players can do it just as well as Mascherano types.

You can dispute it all you want but barca's recent slump shows that you still need some steel and physical presence, because predominantly attacking players are simply not very effective at defending. they are simply handy foils for the competent defenders, if you don't have enough competent defenders then you will still struggle, as barca have.

It's about finding a balance, and with us having only one competent defensive player out of 6 or 7 in midfield how can that be balanced? We play wide players, AM's or even CB's as CM's and our effectiveness suffers as a result imo.

Bayerns' Martinez and Schweinsteiger pairing is a key part of their noticeable improvement from last year. they could have gone for more creativity, but their need was for more solidity in midfield and they paid top dollar to ensure they got the right man.

I fully agree with the team pressing and discipline, but you still need the right players in the right system to best strike the balance between defence and attack. That is why dortmund are so effective. In my view up front we are well suited to a 4-2-3-1, we just lack that one player next to Carrick who is effective defensively and can give us more competitiveness and bite in midfield.

That's the type of player we need imo, we have more than enough creativity in our squad. But what we don't have is a solid midfield to better protect the CB's, and provide a platform which frees our attackers to interchange without leaving us completely exposed through the middle.

 

[Theon]

I completely agree with this, Fellaini should only come if he's used as cover for Carrick. Even then he's probably too expensive for the role when you could get Wanyama for probably half the price. We don't need an improvement on Carrick, we need a proper partner for him and someone to cover for him when injured/rested.

I don't really get the cover for Carrick comments because they are nothing alike. If Carrick gets injured then we lose our playmaker and base of the entire team, Fellaini won't replace that.

I think he would be more than good enough as a partner though, playing further ahead and pressing higher up the pitch. He isn't the most progressive central midfielder around in terms of passing or creativity but that isn't a problem when we have Carrick dictating from deep and our fantatic forward options. If Kagawa plays centrally behind RVP then I don't see our midfield having any trouble possession or creativity wise.

 

[Brightonian]

I don't really get the cover for Carrick comments because they are nothing alike. If Carrick gets injured then we lose our playmaker and base of the entire team, Fellaini won't replace that.

Of course not, what people really mean when they say 'cover for Carrick' is cover for part of what Carrick does - the defensive, strategic, base-of-midfield stuff. Obviously there aren't many players in the world - and none, I think, who we could buy - who could actually replace Carrick. But unfortunately you'll never have anyone that good just sitting on the bench, so you have to find someone to cover his defensive stuff and hope that the first-choice partner is good enough to pick up the slack in other areas.

 

[Theon]

Of course not, what people really mean when they say 'cover for Carrick' is cover for part of what Carrick does - the defensive, strategic, base-of-midfield stuff. Obviously there aren't many players in the world - and none, I think, who we could buy - who could actually replace Carrick. But unfortunately you'll never have anyone that good just sitting on the bench, so you have to find someone to cover his defensive stuff and hope that the first-choice partner is good enough to pick up the slack in other areas.

That still isn't Fellaini's game. He isn't 'strategic' and he wouldn't screen the defense like Carrick.

Fellaini is more of a partner than a relacement, their two styles are just that different.

 

[Ekeke]

When he was playing a deep midfield role for Everton, thats exactly what his game was. Its just that it was a job half as well done as Carrick does for us.

Of course he'd be a good option to backup Carrick, but so would several other premier league players who are likely to cost less than half what Fellaini would. Talk about a waste of money if thats the job

 

[Brightonian]

That still isn't Fellaini's game. He isn't 'strategic' and he wouldn't screen the defense like Carrick.

Fellaini is more of a partner than a relacement, their two styles are just that different.

Again, the idea is not to stylistically replace Carrick. It is to put someone in the team who can do the dirty work in midfield if Carrick is not there to do it. How you do it doesn't matter.

I think there's a myth that Fellaini can be a good box-to-box midfielder. That's a mistaken mixing of two roles which he plays well, but separately. He can be a combative, largely defensive midfielder, who has a good attacking header but mostly plays deep. OR, he can be a specific sort of number 10, controlling and shielding long balls and then bringing other players in. He's not especially good at the stuff in-between, and he certainly doesn't do both at once, because the two roles require very different things tactically and positionally.

The latter is obviously of no use to us. We play a very different sort of attacking football, and if we actually wanted to lump it forwards, RVP is at least as good at controlling it and holding it up as Fellaini. The former could be useful, but only as back-up to Carrick. Partnering him with Carrick in midfield would leave a big gap, both positionally and creatively, between the too-deep midfield and Kagawa up behind the striker.

 

[Theon]

Of course he'd be a good option to backup Carrick, but so would several other premier league players who are likely to cost less than half what Fellaini would. Talk about a waste of money if thats the job

Well that obviously isn't the job, so you're getting all worked up over nothing.

If Moyes brings him in then it will be to start in midfield and partner Carrick, he isn't going to spend over £20million for a backup - as you say its a waste of money and Moyes isn't stupid.

 

[gza the genius]

I don't really get the cover for Carrick comments because they are nothing alike. If Carrick gets injured then we lose our playmaker and base of the entire team, Fellaini won't replace that.

I think he would be more than good enough as a partner though, playing further ahead and pressing higher up the pitch. He isn't the most progressive central midfielder around in terms of passing or creativity but that isn't a problem when we have Carrick dictating from deep and our fantatic forward options. If Kagawa plays centrally behind RVP then I don't see our midfield having any trouble possession or creativity wise.

As Brightonian has said it doesn't have to be like for like cover. There are very few players who do all the things Carrick does. The main point of the cover for Carrick comment is for the defensive side of his game. Again, it doesn't need to be like for like cover either. Someone who is good at tackling may well take that role even though Carrick rarely tackles. We just need someone to offer defensive stability and tactical awareness when Carrick can't play, at the moment Jones is our only option for the role.

 

[Brightonian]

Well that obviously isn't the job, so you're getting all worked up over nothing.

If Moyes brings him in then it will be to start in midfield and partner Carrick, he isn't going to spend over £20million for a backup - as you say its a waste of money and Moyes isn't stupid.

Good, so we're all agreed... Moyes isn't going to bring him in.

 

[apotheosis]

I don't really get the cover for Carrick comments because they are nothing alike. If Carrick gets injured then we lose our playmaker and base of the entire team, Fellaini won't replace that.

I actually do believe he offers competent defensive cover for Carrick, but obviously not for his playmaking ability. But basically we would still be able to play a defensively competent midfielder in whatever system we choose. At present without Carrick we do not have one other competent defensive option.

We saw as much in the Everton game where Carrick had to move to CB and our midfield options that day were clevs, Scholes and Ando. Even as a 3 that is not a defensively reassuring trio.

I think he would be more than good enough as a partner though, playing further ahead and pressing higher up the pitch. He isn't the most progressive central midfielder around in terms of passing or creativity but that isn't a problem when we have Carrick dictating from deep and our fantatic forward options. If Kagawa plays centrally behind RVP then I don't see our midfield having any trouble possession or creativity wise.

Exactly, and when we are under pressure we have a more physical and combative midfield base to put more pressure on opponents possession. Which we haven't had for 2 seasons now really, against top teams anyway.

I see it like this:

-----Carrick---Fellaini----

Valencia---kagawa---nani

-----------RVP----------

or even:

-----Carrick---Fellaini----

---Nani---RVP---Kagawa-

--------Hernandez----------

It's solid, it's narrower and incorporates 4 players full of goals and creativity, while still offering good protection to our CB's. I see it as giving us more chance in big games and in the CL. You well know i have suggested this approach for 2 seasons now, and we may get to finally see it with moyes in charge.

 

[Theon]

Good, so we're all agreed... Moyes isn't going to bring him in.

The feck are you on about?

 

[apotheosis]

The latter is obviously of no use to us. We play a very different sort of attacking football, and if we actually wanted to lump it forwards, RVP is at least as good at controlling it and holding it up as Fellaini. The former could be useful, but only as back-up to Carrick. Partnering him with Carrick in midfield would leave a big gap, both positionally and creatively, between the too-deep midfield and Kagawa up behind the striker.

Why would there be a gap? Only if we continue to play 4-4-2 with touchline wingers.

i don't think moyes would go for that personally. We go 4-2-3-1 then we potentially have 5 players operating in the central area behind RVP. This is how the likes of dortmund and bayern become so effective they have wide men who come inside, allowing for shorter sharper passing.

this big gap is a myth found only in our varying versions of 4-4-2 which allow for big gaping holes in the middle because our players are simply too far apart. Any narrower, well balanced formation would easily prevent such gaps and prove it to be the non issue that it already is to most of the decent European sides.

 

[Theon]

Dortmund have shown that effective midfield defending is about work-rate, high team pressing and tactical discipline - small, creative, box-to-box players can do it just as well as Mascherano types.

Not only is the idea of Dortmund proving anything defensively retarded, but there isn't much stylistic difference between these two midfields,

---Gundogan--Bender-----
---------Gotze-----

---Carrick--Fellaini---
-------Kagawa------

 

[apotheosis]

Not only is the idea of Dortmund proving anything defensively retarded, but there isn't much stylistic difference between these two midfields,

---Gundogan--Bender-----
---------Gotze-----

---Carrick--Fellaini---
-------Kagawa------

Exactly the point i was going to make before hitting the sack. All the top teams play 2 solid cm's in front of the cb's with creative players up front. The only top team good enough to get away without doing that has been Barca, and even they have eventually paid the price for not strengthening defensively.

This is what we lack imo. Bring in someone like Fellaini and change our system, and we could be far more competitive in Europe and in the big games.

 

[Ekeke]

Are you seriously comparing Fellaini to Bender? Bender is Darren Fletcher on drugs. He covers more ground in one game than Fellaini will in a premier league season. He's nuts. Whilst Fellaini is that massive guy who waddles about winning a lot in the air (though surprisingly not as much as some other players like Carrol, Crouch, Benteke and Fletcher who all won more aerial duels than he did) and passing quite well. They arent even slightly similar

 

[Theon]

Are you seriously comparing Fellaini to Bender? Bender is Darren Fletcher on drugs. He covers more ground in one game than Fellaini will in a premier league season. He's nuts. Whilst Fellaini is that massive guy who waddles about winning a lot in the air (though surprisingly not as much as some other players like Carrol, Crouch, Benteke and Fletcher who all won more aerial duels than he did) and passing quite well. They arent even slightly similar

Stop being retarded. I'm saying in terms of styles those two midfields are similar, which they are.

They both have a passer, Carrick/Gundogan, a ballwinner, Fellaini/Bender, and a creator, Kagawa/Gotze.

You're also massively underrating Fellaini in terms of winning the ball, he doesn't just 'waddle around' at all. He's won the ball more than any other Everton player this season despite playing as a number 10 ffs.. He can clearly tackle. If you disagree then you should probably watch him some more.

Rowem posted some relevant stats..

He played the majority of this season as a no.10.

2011/12 Most Tackles In the PL:

10. Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur) – 96 Tackles
9. Marouane Fellaini (Everton) – 99 Tackles
8. Alex Song (Arsenal) – 100 Tackles
7. Youssuf Mulumbu (West Bromwich Albion) – 101 Tackles
6. Patrice Evra (Manchester United) – 104 Tackles
5. Maynor Figueroa (Wigan Athletic) – 107 Tackles
4. Scott Parker (Tottenham Hotspur) – 107 Tackles
3. Joe Allen (Swansea City) – 110 Tackles
2. Moussa Dembélé (Fulham) – 113 Tackles
1. Yohan Cabaye (Newcastle United) – 116 Tackles

Even that season he was played further forwards on occasion.

According to EPL talk:
In 2011, the Belgian had a breakout season. Recording the second most tackles of any player in the Premier League and gaining possession 190 times, the most of any player in the Premier League. He also recorded the most tackles, passes completed and aerial duels won out of any player at Everton that season.

 

[Brightonian]

Stop being retarded. I'm saying in terms of styles those two midfields are similar, which they are.

They both have a passer, Carrick/Gundogan, a ballwinner, Fellaini/Bender, and a creator, Kagawa/Gotze.

They're just not, though. Ekeke's already described how Fellaini and Bender are utterly different players. Gundogan and Carrick, meanwhile, are really only similar in the sense you mention, that they're both 'passers'. As in yes, they both pass the ball. But Carrick is an elegant, efficient distributor, preferring to stay very deep and use his superb long passes (both aerial and along the ground) to get the ball moving forwards. Gundogan is completely different, much more like Cleverley or Wilshere in style. He picks up the ball deep, but then he carries it forward personally, dribbling or setting up little 1-2s to bypass the opposition midfield.

If you actually want to find a model of what a Carrick-Fellaini midfield would look like, it would be Madrid's:

Alonso Khedira
Ozil Modric Ronaldo​

Alonso and Carrick are very similar players. I can't see that there's much argument there. Khedira is stylistically a little different to Fellaini (in a midfield role - I've explained above why his 'big number 10' job is an entirely different thing) but the actual job is the same - be physical, be cynical when necessary, break up play, recycle the ball to more creative midfielders, and get in the box for set pieces.

And therein lies the problem. Even when Madrid's midfield was actually working - which arguably this season it hasn't been, at least by their standards - the combination of two deep-lying, conservative midfielders means that a creative number 10 alone, Kagawa in our team or Ozil in theirs, is not enough. Instead, they're forced to add another midfielder, a multifaceted box-to-box sort - Modric - to fill the gap. This means they have to start Ozil nominally wide, even though he still has to come central most of the time to help Modric with the creative burden.

The problem in this system is Khedira. With Alonso there, and Modric energetic and canny enough to contribute plenty defensively, Khedira's really not needed as a destroyer. But he adds so little creatively that it means Madrid effectively have to sacrifice a wing position to get another creative central player on.

What Dortmund's system actually means is that they don't make this mistake. Gundogan is a progressive box-to-box player, like Modric, equally good recycling possession on the edge of his own box, creating on the edge of the opposition's, or getting the ball from one to the other. He is effective enough defensively that he and Bender together provide the defence with decent protection. Meanwhile, he is effective enough creatively that Gotze doesn't have to single handedly link the base of midfield with the strikers and provide all the central creativity.

Yes, the Fellaini-Carrick approach would probably work. It would be 'fine'. But really, you have to lose a winger in order to make up for the lack of progression and attacking potential in the centre. Playing someone in the Gundogan/Modric mould next to Carrick would be much more balanced, creating a team that is equally strong in every sector of the midfield, and has a good balance between defensive responsibility and creativity.

That's basically my opinion, in full. I gather than we simply don't agree, and won't, so I'm just going to leave it there now.

 

[Ekeke]

Stop being retarded. I'm saying in terms of styles those two midfields are similar, which they are.

They both have a passer, Carrick/Gundogan, a ballwinner, Fellaini/Bender, and a creator, Kagawa/Gotze.

You're also massively underrating Fellaini in terms of winning the ball, he doesn't just 'waddle around' at all. He's won the ball more than any other Everton player this season despite playing as a number 10 ffs.. He can clearly tackle. If you disagree then you should probably watch him some more.

Rowem posted some relevant stats..

What a meltdown. Those arent stats from this season and they are newspaper stats. Show me an actual source, not the same media we know to constantly spout bullshit about our team, players and everything else football related.

 

[Theon]

What a meltdown. Those arent stats from this season and they are newspaper stats. Show me an actual source, not the same media we know to constantly spout bullshit about our team, players and everything else football related.

The stat I used is from this season, it's from whoscored which you always quote from.

Rowems stats are from last season but he explained why they were relevant - because this year Fellaini has played as a number 10. Last season he was tackling even more than he is now, because he was in the centre more often.

It's not complicated Ekeke, you might not like Fellaini but trying to play down his ability to win the ball is just stupid. It's quite clear that you haven't watched him much.

 

[lem8sh]

Good at winning the ball, terrible at keeping it.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

He's a hideous looking man, isn't he? I suppose if we sell Wayne, it'll free up a space for his microphone head.

I think he's a decent midfielder, he could replace Anderson in the squad. The reason I don't want us to touch him with a barge pole is I fear we'd attempt to utilise him as he was at Everton. A big battering ram.

 

[Theon]

They're just not, though. Ekeke's already described how Fellaini and Bender are utterly different players.

They are all utterly different players, I said the same thing earlier on in the thread when you spoke about Fellaini replacing Carrick. The relevant point is on their role in the team.

Fellaini could without question perform a similar role for United as Bender does for Dortmund. Bender is certainly more mobile, but Ekeke acting like Fellaini is too cumbersome to make tackles is just bullshit and all the stats back it up.

I'm not getting into that Madrid nonsense. The best football they played by an absolute mile was before Di Maria got injured in '11-'12 with a front three of

Di Maria--Ozil--Ronaldo

There was no need for Modric.

6-2 against Rayo, 4-0 Malaga, 7-1 Osasuna etc. That whole period where Madrid were amazing was with Khedira-Alonso and Ozil playing just ahead.

But apparently it doesn't work..

 

[RDCR07]

He's a hideous looking man, isn't he? I suppose if we sell Wayne, it'll free up a space for his microphone head.

I think he's a decent midfielder, he could replace Anderson in the squad. The reason I don't want us to touch him with a barge pole is I fear we'd attempt to utilise him as he was at Everton. A big battering ram.

Assuming Rooney stays and we buy Fellaini. There is no place for Fellaini to play up top with Rooney and Kagawa playing there. So if he is brought in, then it has to be for a deeper CM position next to Carrick or as an alternative to Carrick. Wouldnt be the worst central midfielder out there.

 

[Ekeke]

The stat I used is from this season, it's from whoscored which you always quote from.

Rowems stats are from last season but he explained why they were relevant - because this year Fellaini has played as a number 10. Last season he was tackling even more than he is now, because he was in the centre more often.

It's not complicated Ekeke, you might not like Fellaini but trying to play down his ability to win the ball is just stupid. It's quite clear that you haven't watched him much.

So to try and cover up for getting the season wrong, you're now reverting to lying about whats on websites. Brilliant.

Fellaini has averaged 2.6 tackles per game and 1.2 interceptions. Leon Osman of all people has won the ball more this season for Everton

 

[Theon]

So to try and cover up for getting the season wrong, you're now reverting to lying about whats on websites. Brilliant.

Fellaini has averaged 2.6 tackles per game and 1.2 interceptions. Leon Osman of all people has won the ball more this season for Everton

Ekeke that is genuinely pathetic.

I was clearly talking about who made the most tackles, Fellaini has 2.6 tackles per game, Osman has 2.4.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/31

 

[Ekeke]

Ekeke that is genuinely pathetic.

I was clearly talking about who made the most tackles, Fellaini has 2.6 tackles per game, Osman has 2.4.

You said he'd won the ball most of all Everton players. You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to suggest that the only way to win the ball is to tackle someone. Especially as a lot of pundits suggest tackling isnt as important a part of the game anymore, which may or may not be true. But intercepting the ball is winning it plain and simple

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Assuming Rooney stays and we buy Fellaini. There is no place for Fellaini to play up top with Rooney and Kagawa playing there. So if he is brought in, then it has to be for a deeper CM position next to Carrick or as an alternative to Carrick. Wouldnt be the worst central midfielder out there.

Sorry, I meant in selling Rooney we'll have a free space for another ugly bastard in our side.

 

[Theon]

You said he'd won the ball most of all Everton players. You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to suggest that the only way to win the ball is to tackle someone. Especially as a lot of pundits suggest tackling isnt as important a part of the game anymore, which may or may not be true. But intercepting the ball is winning it plain and simple

This is genuinely the most pathetic attempt at an argument I've ever been involved in on here. It's embarassing.

Yeah I meant tackles - clearly, seeing as the stats I posted were all about tackles. Carry on though, you've been full retard in this thread Ekeke so don't stop now.

 

[ciderman9000000]

Many of you talk as if this last was Fellaini's only season in the Premier League. He's had four seasons at Everton now and, once he found his feet, has been excellent in the CM position for them for long periods. Fellaini's only gained the recognition he's enjoyed recently as he's been made to play higher up the pitch and since added goals to his game - it's testament to his dangerous versatility that he's able to do this, but first and foremost the man's a bloody good central midfielder.

 

[Freak]

If he does come, the first thing we need to do is send him to a barber to get that ridiculous hair off his head.