It brings out the worst in the 'Moyes is a small time wanker' 'Fellaini is a shite league one clogger' brigade.
Fellaini
- Thread starter Bilbo
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What does 'steel' mean then? Could someone explain? Does it mean he's big and fouls a lot? Or that he clatters people? I suspect it's got something to do with defending but Carrick apparently doesn't have this 'steel' even though he's great at retrieving the ball and stopping attacks. So what is it about? Sheer amount of muscle?
My point about the leagues is that stepping up from Everton to Manchester United is no harder than stepping up from Atlético Madrid to Manchester United. The player might hate living in a new country, that's always a possibility but the biggest thing, always, is adapting to the higher expectations, the greater pressure. See Ashley Young, a "proven Premier League performer".
Not harder in terms of step up in quality but its always an advantage if a player has adapted to a league, no matter what league that is. Ashley Young is one example when it hasnt quite happened, but it is certainly something Fergie believed in very strongly and who are we to doubt him?
Look back over the years loads of players who were rated very highly have changed leagues and for one reason or antoher it never worked out.
So bidding £24million on every midfielder in sight has finally worked for one of them.
Shut up, man. Everyone knows what steel means and obviously having experience in the Premier League is beneficial.
You're talking from your arse.
Yes we have now bidded on two players
The thing is, with these deals that are "raising to Xmillion"... usually the raises are to do with things that generally happen (i.e appearances/winning trophies/CL qualification etc.) and/or we acheive, so we end up paying these clauses anyway...
Which leads me to the point I want to make of... why the hell didn't we just pay £23.5 million and have him months ago so he could settle in to the sodding squad?!
Unless of course the clause was more then £23.5m, or there are no add-ons... or who fecking knows.
Which leads me to the point I want to make of... why the hell didn't we just pay £23.5 million and have him months ago so he could settle in to the sodding squad?!
Unless of course the clause was more then £23.5m, or there are no add-ons... or who fecking knows.
He wasn't first choice.
You don't buy all your fallback options at the start of the summer and only then try to sign your top priorities.
True enough, but didn't we submit a bid all of a week after his clause apparently ran out? (depending on what date this clause ran out) Which means we were probably interested before then... In fact, even if we had got Fabregas, Fellaini would still have been a useful addition to the side (though that's Moyes' call to make of course).
That was all pretty recent though.
Great points.
United have a track record of buying players who are already settled, established and doing well in the league and giving those players a chance higher up the ladder. Fergie loved to do it and the likes of Berg, Keane, Sheringham, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin, Yorke, Cole all proved to be good buys.
We need a player who can come straight in, knows the Permier League and is hungry to try and establish himself in a top side. He's done well for Everton so I see no reason why he doesnt deserve a chance to do that.
We have no player who offers what he has - at the very least being able to break up play, and keep us solid in the middle, although I do think he has other qualities. He represents much less of a risk than other players out there.
Your last point is the biggest one for me - Moyes knows what he's all about, so if it helps Moyes settle in having a player he likes and rates then I think that's a positive.
Disagree entirely.
Moving to a new country is a big deal on a personal level - dealing with the weather, a new language, finding a house and Schools for your kids etc. All of that takes time and people need to settle. Some will, some won't - but being a millionaire in the UK wont be much different to being a millionaire in Spain.
But on a football level its much harder. Some players just aren't suited to the PL in the same way that some PL players wont be suited to other leagues around the world. The pace of the game is different, the PL is much more physical and probably less technical than other leagues.
Good example - Borja Valero came to West Brom, lasted five minutes. Now a Spanish international, played for some good sides and was linked to Barca. Just didnt fit into the PL.
Beneficial, yes. Also very overrated, at least on the Caf.
Yeah, everyone knows what steel means but somehow nobody can explain what it is and why is it supposed to be so important.
I'm fairly sure it's the other way around. Borja is a typical journeyman, not a very good example, even though he did appear once for Spain in a friendly.
Fellaini has shown that he can be excellent as a target man for an upper mid table team. It means jack shit when it comes to assessing how he might do as a defensive midfielder for a title chasing side. The fact that Moyes knows him well is a far better argument than his "PL experience".
Sahin is a better example. It's obviously more of a risk to sign someone from outside the league.
Perhaps a better example then - some on here would have had you believe he was the answer to all our woes. Turned out he couldnt get anywhere near the pace of the PL, despite looking like a decent player for Dortmund.
Ibrahimovic is probably another example of that.. He was pretty comfortable in Serie A, no matter what team he played for, yet it didn't work out quite well for him in La Liga.. He also seems to struggle in Europe as well.
But again, there are a host of other factors there. Sahin "failed" at a big club, was just past an injury-riddled season and he was only loaned - a temporary arrangement - to a struggling Liverpool side that was and still is a work in progress. It's not as simple as saying that he simply could not adapt to the Premier League because of the nature of the league.
Yes, it's more of a risk, I never denied that. I'm saying that PL experience is overrated on the Caf, it's far less important than a bunch of other things. Sir Alex was cited here but many of his best signings were from outside the league: Stam, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra or you can even say Schmeichel and De Gea. Quality and the right character and mentality are more important than PL experience.
It would have had he been the main man at barca.
He hasn't always played upfront - when Cahill was in the side he played in midfield.
And his experience in the PL is valid in my eyes - because he knows what its all about, the intensity and the physicality. I dont see that playing games in a more advanced position gives him that much of a different experience to playing in a deeper role - infact he'll arguably have more time on the ball, especially in a better side, rather than coming up against PL centrebacks week in week out when trying to lead the line.
And in terms of "steel" - I consider it being a player who can tackle, is strong, disciplined in his position and who will work hard for the team.
Another good example.
Its horses for courses - the likes of Forlan and Kanoute were average PL players at best, but excelled in Spain.
It didn't work out for him at Barcelona. Not least because he's not the type of player who fits into Guardiola's system. He still had 22 goals and 13 assists in 46 games (16 goals in 29 league games) so he clearly did not struggle with the league.
But he also struggles in Europe..
Experience is important but ability is even more important. When signing players from abroad, a lot of work has to go into how he'd adapt to the league.
It'l all be moot though as I think his ability as a footballer is underrated here. He'l do well without being anything spectacular. We needed 2 CMs though, so its a start but isnt enough. A Carrick-Fellaini combo will be very good for the big games but unnecessarily strong defensively while compromising on attacking threat for the majority of the games we play.
It'l all be moot though as I think his ability as a footballer is underrated here. He'l do well without being anything spectacular. We needed 2 CMs though, so its a start but isnt enough. A Carrick-Fellaini combo will be very good for the big games but unnecessarily strong defensively while compromising on attacking threat for the majority of the games we play.
Well finally. That's a good definition. I'm very unconvinced by Fellaini's positional discipline/awareness and without that the other three aren't worth much, as we've seen with Alan Smith. I'm not saying Fellaini is at Smith's level as a midfielder, he's clearly far better than that but I'm still not sure that's enough.
If he signs I'm gonna personally see to it that he gets his hair trimmed. Joke of a haircut that is not appropriate at United.
Anyone who is struggling to know what steel or lack of it is should watch our last few games against Fellaini.
Which has little to do with the discussion here. He seems to have some mental block on the biggest stage but he still played very well in several different countries/leagues.
Kanouté is a good example. Forlán just wasn't good enough/mentally tough enough for Manchester United's level.
It was only you who needed a definition. Everyone else knew what steel meant already.
Transfer Sources @TransferSources
Retweeted by RedCity ©
14h
BREAKING: Manchester United and Everton have agreed a fee for Fellaini. #MUFC #EFCRetweeted by RedCity ©
Who are they?
This Summer has been a joke all things considered. It's reached the point where most United fans will now accept Fellaini just to get a player in. Someone even said we tried to sign Fabregas a few pages back (that's laughable).
The cynic in me wonders if this was the plan all along.
The cynic in me wonders if this was the plan all along.
To wait until the end of the transfer window to buy Fellaini? I highly doubt it. He clearly wasn't first choice for us.
Remember this or Ronaldo's awful bleached bits when he joined? Fellaini's afro is a lesser offence.
Transfer Sources! They have sources in Transfers. It doesn't get much more reliable then that...
Why post this bullshit? Unless it's a professional journalist (someone with a real name and picture for a start) or official source - bbc, espn etc, then it's 99.9% some school kid
No I can assure you that any tweet posted by "transfersources" or "ITKtransferagent" is completely worthless.
You could argue that we tried to buy Fabregas (our 1st choice) with some very limp and unrealistic bids at a stupid time after Thiago was sold (knowing that the bid would fail). This would then look to the fans as though they're trying to bring in top quality players, while all along the realistic target has been fecking Fellaini. Therefore aiding the sales of Season Tickets and making Manchester United seem like they're after the very best talent.
I hope this twitter bullshit is bollocks because i'm going to be extremely under whelmed if we sign this hairy twat. Bah fecking humbug!
we will see 
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