Fellaini

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Martinez has been in the job 2 mins and he is acting like he owns the place.

Yes United made a bid, it was rejected by efc, isn't that what happens during a transfer window, plus as far as i recall it was leaked by them not us....or was he expecting to make a first bid of £40m plus!!!
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Only England fans thought he was top class for awhile. I have no idea why.
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Well the reason is because he was outstanding for England in that WC and if you think it was only those fans who rated him then I suggest you go and have a word with some Bayern fans.

He didnt work out for us due to injury, even in his first season he had injury issues - anyway the point in this was that Hargreaves is one of the few examples of us buying a genuine top class player from a big club, the only other example in midfield was Veron.

Fellaini obviously isnt in that category, but that doesnt mean he cant be a success for us.
 
I think the reason that Everton are a bit more pissed off with our bid than usual is the Moyes connection - can kind of understand it from that perspective, but still it is all just negotiation really.
 
Rood said:
Well the reason is because he was outstanding for England in that WC and if you think it was only those fans who rated him then I suggest you go and have a word with some Bayern fans.

He didnt work out for us due to injury, even in his first season he had injury issues - anyway the point in this was that Hargreaves is one of the few examples of us buying a genuine top class player from a big club, the only other example in midfield was Veron.

Fellaini obviously isnt in that category, but that doesnt mean he cant be a success for us.
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Outstanding at the world cup is real stretch. He hassles and harries. I'd put him in the fletcher category. He's nothing special.

Fellaini is the same category and will prove it if he we sign him.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Outstanding at the world cup is real stretch. He hassles and harries. I'd put him in the fletcher category. He's nothing special.

Fellaini is the same category and will prove it if he we sign him.
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Im not really interested in your (or anyone else's) opinion of the player, the point was about us signing top class talent and whether you rate him as a player or not, Hargreaves was one of the few who fits that category.
He was a regular in one of Europe's biggest clubs, a CL winner - obviously Fellaini is not in the same category but I think he has the potential to hit that level in 2/3 years, others disagree - we shall see ...
 
Rood said:
Im not really interested in your (or anyone else's) opinion of the player, the point was about us signing top class talent and whether you rate him as a player or not, Hargreaves was one of the few who fits that category.
He was a regular in one of Europe's biggest clubs, a CL winner - obviously Fellaini is not in the same category but I think he has the potential to hit that level in 2/3 years, others disagree - we shall see ...
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Yeah I'm not really interested in you as a poster but he wasn't a top quality footballer.
 
Hargreaves was fit and awful in CM, thats why we had to move him as far away from there as possible and he ended up even playing right back for a time

Fellaini will be much better for us in CM if we sign him. But if for some bizarre reason he's just as bad, I dont think we could move him to right midfield or right back
 
Rood said:
Im not really interested in your (or anyone else's) opinion of the player, the point was about us signing top class talent and whether you rate him as a player or not, Hargreaves was one of the few who fits that category.
He was a regular in one of Europe's biggest clubs, a CL winner - obviously Fellaini is not in the same category but I think he has the potential to hit that level in 2/3 years, others disagree - we shall see ...
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Hargreaves's injury led to somehow people overrating him a lot. He was nothing special for us. His best performances came out wide than at CM actually. Good player, nothing great.

I hadnt seen much of him for Bayern so am going by what I saw for us.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Well yeah. His prickly response was uncalled for I thought given it was a normal debate. I think I'm entitled to give my opinion on any topic here, no?
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Well no, not really, not in the football forum, it's technically off topic, and not about football. The place would be a train wreck if we all felt the need to assess someone's character as a prefix to a post. So please don't.
 
With regards to Martinez' comments, it's pretty ridiculous that we can expect to take their 2 best players off them for so little money with so little time in the window left. It makes absolutely no sense for Everton to sell to us, especially at that price. It would have to be an offer that is too good to resist. Something we are clearly not looking to do.

How do they replace Felli and Baines? With great difficulty and a great cost.

Am I being naive in still hoping that we'll pull off a deal for someone without all these media shite?
 
While it makes no sense for Everton to sell at a price they don't want to sell at, I struggle to see how they are really hurt or insulted. That whole pantomime is really annoying. "OMG I'm so hurt United think our players are good enough to buy".
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Well yeah. His prickly response was uncalled for I thought given it was a normal debate. I think I'm entitled to give my opinion on any topic here, no?
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I didnt stop you from giving your opinion (however shit it might be, you are entitled to give it), but this thread is about Fellaini so continual discussions about Hargreaves performances for us are pretty irrelevant. The only reason his name came up was in a wider discussion about occasions we have bought top class midfielders in recent times and I was trying to keep the discussion relevant.


Varun_Utd said:
Hargreaves's injury led to somehow people overrating him a lot. He was nothing special for us. His best performances came out wide than at CM actually. Good player, nothing great.

I hadnt seen much of him for Bayern so am going by what I saw for us.
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Read my posts, at no point have I claimed that Hargreaves was a great player for us. The whole point is about how highly he was rated BEFORE coming to us, which many seem to know little about.

so ye carry on missing the point
 
moses said:
While it makes no sense for Everton to sell at a price they don't want to sell at, I struggle to see how they are really hurt or insulted. That whole pantomime is really annoying. "OMG I'm so hurt United think our players are good enough to buy".
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Ye - it is all a bit unnecessary and would be best kept behind closed doors, I suppose this is Martinez's way of trying to get us to up our bid and get the deal done - I reckon he wants Fellaini sold so he can bring in his own man from Wigan
 
moses said:
Well no, not really, not in the football forum, it's technically off topic, and not about football. The place would be a train wreck if we all felt the need to assess someone's character as a prefix to a post. So please don't.
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Of course. By give my opinion I meant that I'm allowed to give my opinion with some chap saying " I don't care about your opinion". Obviously my next comment is completely off topic.
 
COnsidering how difficult it seems to be to find a creative partner for Carric, would Carrick in a more advanced creative role and Fellaini as the DM work?
 
moses said:
While it makes no sense for Everton to sell at a price they don't want to sell at, I struggle to see how they are really hurt or insulted. That whole pantomime is really annoying. "OMG I'm so hurt United think our players are good enough to buy".
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Exactly. Or as the Fiver put it:


[The transfer window] exists to enable football clubs buy and sell players, and it has been decided that designating two set windows a year causes the least disruption. All clubs use it, and its working is uncomplicated: Club A will try to purchase the player of Club B, for as little money as possible, and at the same time, Club B will either try to sell the player for as much money as possible, or to retain him. Should they choose to sell they might begin looking for a replacement, with the aim of doing to Club C what Club A did to them, and so on and so on until everybody dies. All clubs are in competition with all other clubs.

Accordingly, it is rather peculiar when those involved achieve intense personal responses to a practice not just accepted, but in which they participate. Take the Everton chairman, Bill Kenwright, for example – about whom a sentence came dangerously close to being written without including the words "theatre impresario". When Manchester United offered him £28m for Leighton Baines and Marouane Fellaini, it was, simply and precisely, that: an offer, for some footballers. There was neither compulsion nor coercion, it was not personal, and they were not offering to purchase anyone's integrity, wife, brain, or genit@ls. It was an offer for some footballers. It's a fairly straightforward tenet of business – and, consequently, impresarioing – that when you make an opening bid for something, you are sure that it represents the very best deal you could possibly achieve and that it will, in almost every circumstance, be rejected.

Yet, Kenwright and his delicate sensibilities found it "insulting". In what aspect, he did not say. How this manifested, he did not say. That was on Monday. Today, three days later, it is Thursday, and still, the poor man has not recovered. Only this morning, Roberto Martínez felt the need to explain the horrific damage wrought, the broken man's straight man: "I have seen a bit of everything," he said of Kenwright's turmoil – well, we assume for the good of our constitutions that this is to what he was referring. But there was more. "When you make a massive investment in a player who develops into one of your best players, and you get an offer for less than what you invested, then you are going to be angry, disappointed and hurt. They are the emotions, but the chairman has always been in control of the matter."

This is most bizarre. Ed Woodward, United's vice-chairman, is nothing to anyone – hell, he may not even exist – and he is certainly nothing to theatre impresario Bill Kenwright. Kenwright is neither cuckolded husband nor deceived parent – and yet, somehow, has contrived to detect, not only feelings, but distinct ones, that he can identify, separate, name and possess. He is angry. He is disappointed. He is hurt. And now he's dispatching Martínez out to communicate these shocking facts to the world. Why, it's almost enough to make the Fiver angry, disappointed and hurt.
 
Rood said:
I didnt stop you from giving your opinion (however shit it might be, you are entitled to give it), but this thread is about Fellaini so continual discussions about Hargreaves performances for us are pretty irrelevant. The only reason his name came up was in a wider discussion about occasions we have bought top class midfielders in recent times and I was trying to keep the discussion relevant.
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The only shit opinion around here is someone who thinks Owen Hargreaves was ever one of the best in the world. It's a laughable take on a pretty good footballer.

And given your point was about "top class midfielders" it's completely relevant to question whether he was top class or not because your argument holds no water if he wasn't. Regardless, I think the manner in which you attempted to steer the topic back on topic from the irrelevant (which I despite it was) was strangely confrontational IMO.
 
kiristao said:
COnsidering how difficult it seems to be to find a creative partner for Carric, would Carrick in a more advanced creative role and Fellaini as the DM work?
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I don't think so. He's just come off his best season and I don't think we should mess with his role right now.
 
Stack said:
So Fergie is the one with the shit opinion as it was Fergie who first made that claim.
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I know. I respectfully disagree with the great man :) you know he doesn't always get it right, right? (Although you're obviously entitled to agree with him)
 
kiristao said:
COnsidering how difficult it seems to be to find a creative partner for Carric, would Carrick in a more advanced creative role and Fellaini as the DM work?
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I think it should clearly be the other way around. Fellaini showed last season he should be playing as far forward as possible
 
amolbhatia100 said:
And given your point was about "top class midfielders" it's completely relevant to question whether he was top class or not because your argument holds no water if he wasn't.
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Well the point was about how highly he was rated BEFORE coming to us (in comparison to other midfielder bought by Fergie and Fellaini right now), so how well he performed in a United shirt is pretty irrelevant.

And as far as I am concerned, a regular for one of the biggest teams in Europe (and England) plus a CL winner = top class midfielder.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Of course. By give my opinion I meant that I'm allowed to give my opinion with some chap saying " I don't care about your opinion". Obviously my next comment is completely off topic.
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And that was the only one I commented on as far as I'm aware. Now stop derailing the thread.
 
Ekeke said:
I think it should clearly be the other way around. Fellaini showed last season he should be playing as far forward as possible
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Carrick would sit deep and fellaini would box to box. But I really want the guy next to Carrick to be able to link up our attacks. If we had a proper creative no. 10 who can playmake it wouldn't be an issue but because we don't, the central midfielder needs to be able to run the play. In fact if we had Ozil, fellaini would make more sense as strange as that sounds.
 
Rood said:
Well the point was about how highly he was rated BEFORE coming to us (in comparison to other midfielder bought by Fergie and Fellaini right now), so how well he performed in a United shirt is pretty irrelevant.

And as far as I am concerned, a regular for one of the biggest teams in Europe (and England) plus a CL winner = top class midfielder.
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Fair enough about the first point but I only saw him for us and for England , so going by that I can never rate him as top class. Agree on disagree not his one. Let's leave it at that.

Regarding the last bit, again I disagree. Fletcher was a regular starter for us but he wasn't top class for me either. There are loads of players who do a good job in very successful sides. But it doesn't make the, top drawer. In fact if I were to call Hargreaves what would I call Carrick? And going one step above that, what would I call Keane or scholes or xavi? It feels like I'd be taking a whole lot of players of very different levels of quality and bunching them into one bracket. So agree to disagree on this too.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Carrick would sit deep and fellaini would box to box. But I really want the guy next to Carrick to be able to link up our attacks. If we had a proper creative no. 10 who can playmake it wouldn't be an issue but because we don't, the central midfielder needs to be able to run the play. In fact if we had Ozil, fellaini would make more sense as strange as that sounds.
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Fellaini can linkup well with teammates in passing moves and one twos. He isnt a particularly creative player but he can certainly be involved in good team play to make a chance.

I think he's far from ideal but it looks like after Cescgate he's become our midfield priority
 
Ekeke said:
Fellaini can linkup well with teammates in passing moves and one twos. He isnt a particularly creative player but he can certainly be involved in good team play to make a chance.

I think he's far from ideal but it looks like after Cescgate he's become our midfield priority
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Yeah I think he's a good player to be honest. He'll surprise a lot of people with his link up play and running ability.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Yeah I think he's a good player to be honest. He'll surprise a lot of people with his link up play and running ability.
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I'm going for linkup play and skill to be the surprise factors for a few, but yeah as I've said before some people underrate him on the ball, even though its clear he's not a passer like Fabregas, Thiago, Scholes, Giggs, etc. And some people overrate him defensively.
 
He'll do what Fletcher did for us in my view. He will bring all that tenacity, and a little bit more in terms of skill. I really don't think he will be all that progressive going forward, i think he will just provide the base alongside Carrick within a possible 4-2-3-1.

If he does that, then we will be solid in front of the CB's, and this frees the likes of Kagawa, Nani, Rooney to move about and find space to exploit. Tjhat in itslef will make us far less predictable and more creative.
Kagawa thrived at Dortmund under a similar system, and it is my personal view that Nani would similarly flourish under those types of conditions too.
 
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