I have no doubt at all that if we looked to by McCarthy now most of the same people would be crying about him signing, including Pete.
Fellaini
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I have no doubt at all that if we looked to by McCarthy now most of the same people would be crying about him signing, including Pete.
Because you want to believe the total rubbish you're talking. Feel free to continue.
The problem with going for McCarthy over Fellaini is that our midfield needs improvement now, and McCarthy will be yet another player who's a work in progress.
IMO there is no doubt that Fellaini is a good player with potential to reach higher levels, but it does seem that some people just dont like (or think we dont need) that kind of player
Personally I think that kind of players is exactly what we have been missing since Fletcher was ruled out, and as long as we can get him for around £20m then we should get it done.
Man, go read the McCarthy thread which is one I'm probably one of the highest posters in. That exact sentiment is in there many many times. People would like us to sign him but not as our main midfield purchase which it looks like whatever one we get will be.
Feel free to continue yourself.
True, if we'd signed another top CM (Fabregas or Modric) then I'd have preferred McCarthy over Fellaini, no question. As it is we may only get one cm, so that signing has to step up right away. We might not have the luxury to allow McCarthy to grow into the team.
Having said that, I think McCarthy's style is much better suited to ours and I'd still be tempted to go for him over Fellaini.
Why do people continually respond to pete? He's either an idiot or a WUM. Given that he seems reasonably intelligent when it comes to anything not-related to Moyes' inadequacies, I'm going with the latter.
You suggested that the same people who would like us to get McCarthy, would moan if we were actually in for him? And yet the people who you say don't know the club and only think we should buy top class finished article players actually think we should go for young potential not the world class finished articles you suggest at all.Man, go read the McCarthy thread which is one I'm probably one of the highest posters in. That exact sentiment is in there many many times. People would like us to sign him but not as our main midfield purchase which it looks like whatever one we get will be.
Feel free to continue yourself.
People don't like Fellaini for a plethora of reasons, and your choosing to tell yourself its because they only want top class players which is bullshit that you've made up and convinced yourself of.
Learn to read before you get into complicated things like italicising words.
I said the same people who are complaining about us being in for Fellaini would be complaining is we were in for McCarthy.
you said:
You don't make much sense do you? Why would Pete be crying about it when he suggested McCarthy as a better option to Fellaini for both Arsenal and United.
Some of you are expecting something of Moyes that you didn't expect from SAF. That's the bottom line. When did SAF last make a serious attempt to sign the quality of midfielder you seem to be expecting moyes to sign now?
I seriously cannot remember him making a bid for any top midfielder in the last decade. I have seen plenty of top quality mids move in the last 5 years, and we have never bid for any of them. Wasn't Anderson's talent undeniable when we signed him? Wasn't there interest from all the top clubs which forced us to move quickly to get him?
Turned out to be a world beater didn't he? In perspective SAF signed one midfielder in 20 years who has become a top quality regular in our midfield, and that's Carrick. The last midfielder he signed who was top quality and successful was Keane.
It's hardly a surprise that after losing out on the type of quality, you and some others seem to be pining for, he decides to go for someone who he knows and trusts, and would provide many of the attributes that we have missed in the absence of Fletcher. Give him a fecking chance ffs. If he buys Fellaini and he flops, then moyes will be accountable. He knows that, and the same can be said about any big money signing he makes. Thiago may have been great, or he could have ended up the new Anderson. Who knows? If you were in moyes shoes, and it was your reputation and potential job on the line, i'm fairly certain you would air on the side of caution, and opt for someone who is proven in the PL, who he knows he can rely on to provide what he needs.
Fergie stuck with players he knew and trusted, even when there were better quality and younger options available. Why is it so outlandish for Moyes - who will be under far more pressure - to act in a similar fashion?
Fair point, the last top cm we signed was Veron and he didn't exactly work out. Having said that, Moyes has made a rod for his own back by saying we were looking at signing the very best, he's brought a lot of this expectation onto himself.
Because what he suggests about Fellaini as a player also suggests he knows nothing about football. You should probably read some of it before asking that question. Fellaini is not a donkey at all and anyone with half a clue would realise that. Pete does too - Are you suggesting you dont?
Ffs apotheosis I haven't suggested that Moyes goes bidding for top class players. Quite the opposite, just not fecking Fellaini.
So is Fellaini as a CM. The work he did the last season he played there leaves plenty to be desired. Just because he had a really good season in the hole doesn't change that.
McCarthy would be an instant improvement over Cleverley and Anderson based on last season for all players concerned. So would Fellaini
'Most of the same people' ie. most of the same people who are crying now about us signing Fellaini.
Jesus man you are hard work.
Better to try and fail, than not try at all. Again he has inherited this midfield problem, and it is not his fault that woodward has failed to land the players he targeted. I doubt very much moyes is determining how much we bid for players, so he has brought expectation upon himself only by trying to sign top quality. Now he is being harshly judged for failing to do in 2 months, what SAF had years to sort out.
SAF made a special request for us fans in particular to back moyes, probably because he knew there would be plenty of outsiders sharpening the knives before he even started. It annoys me to see so many fans on here, joining in. Give the guy a chance, if Fellaini flops, then have a pop then, instead of wildly speculating about his quality, and Moyes judgment before they have done anything.
Let's give them a chance to succeed, before we predict their failure.
I'm sure you make sense in your own mind.
I think he was a little giddy that he can finally say something like that...
I think Fellaini could do a job for us our other midfielders can't in terms of presence and I think he could be moulded into a strong, defensive midfielder - he could even make us more balanced with our attacking approach
He's not ideal - we should have been more organised - we should really be bringing in a playmaker but at this stage of the game it isn't happening
I'd like us to sign Fellaini as a last resort with a priority on bringing in a playmaker next summer - I'm not even gonna get my hopes up that we will pull something out of the bag
if Carrick gets injured I think Fellaini/Cleverley/Anderson could be a decent midfield
He's not ideal - we should have been more organised - we should really be bringing in a playmaker but at this stage of the game it isn't happening
I'd like us to sign Fellaini as a last resort with a priority on bringing in a playmaker next summer - I'm not even gonna get my hopes up that we will pull something out of the bag
if Carrick gets injured I think Fellaini/Cleverley/Anderson could be a decent midfield
That kind of pre-emptive criticism isn't new though, is it? Even with all the success SAF had he was still regularly criticised for the state of our cm or for transfers/ potential transfers. The criticism of Moyes is harsh but so was most of the criticism against SAF, the only difference is Moyes doesn't have thank bank of goodwill to fall back on.
I'd honestly still be worried about a midfield of Fellaini + Anderson or Cleverley defensively. Even though its a better option than playing both of them.
I think with a player who offers even a little bit less than Carrick defensively, and Fellaini definitely does offer less defensively in terms of protection for the back 4, we'd still be too easy to play through. I wouldnt be surprised if, even if we bought him for £20 million and Carrick did get this injury everyone has been talking about for months and Fellaini had to fill in for him as the deepest midfielder, we'd still have to play Giggs next to him because Giggs is a bit more responsible defensively than Anderson and Cleverley. So my bet is on Fellaini + Giggs as our midfield partnership if we have to deal with missing Carrick
I think with a player who offers even a little bit less than Carrick defensively, and Fellaini definitely does offer less defensively in terms of protection for the back 4, we'd still be too easy to play through. I wouldnt be surprised if, even if we bought him for £20 million and Carrick did get this injury everyone has been talking about for months and Fellaini had to fill in for him as the deepest midfielder, we'd still have to play Giggs next to him because Giggs is a bit more responsible defensively than Anderson and Cleverley. So my bet is on Fellaini + Giggs as our midfield partnership if we have to deal with missing Carrick
Well I'd hardly be saying people who are now crying about us signing McCarthy when we're not signing him. Honestly dude, don't bother replying to this because you're clueless.
Why was it harsh on SAF? The state of our cm as you put it, was and is a direct result of him not signing anyone to improve it! What reasonable justification did he provide for not signing a top quality midfielder in the past 2 or 3 years? Let's not forget how he repeatedly justified not signing anyone amid claims of how happy he was with our midfield, so much so that he didn't feel there was anyone available who could improve it. So i don't think he had any excuse tbh. He had signed poorly for a long time in midfield and was reluctant to do so again. That's the only reason I can think of for him not signing anyone.
moyes has had 2 months to sign midfielders, while SAf had years to do so, and chose not to. It's that simple. The criticism of Moyes isn't harsh, it's beyond ridiculous. He hasn't even got going yet ffs. How the feck can he be criticised for not doing in 2 months, what SAf had years to plan and prepare for, yet didn't. Any problems we have in midfield this season are down to SAF, not Moyes. Moyes can only be criticised once his signings (if he ever makes any) fail. Not for not being able to do what SAF should have done, what type of logic is that?
SAF was fantastic for the most part, that has to be said, but it is only fair to point out that this midfield issue is a problem created by his own inaction. Unfortunately for Moyes it appears he now has to bear the brunt of some fans long suppressed frustration, and be prematurely and unjustly criticised for not being able to appease that frustration in only a couple of months.
Which still looks far better than our current options should Carrick be out! As it stands, Carrick out means a selection from Cleverley, Anderson and Giggs! I don't know about you, but personally I would feel much better should we add Fellaini to those options! He may not be as effective as Carrick there, but still a vast improvement on our current defensive minded options.
Of course it does!
And we should expect that anyone we sign to have the same effect, ie. being better than Cleverley and Anderson defensively. That goes for any midfielder we might like to buy, not just mop haired ones at £20 million+. We could sign Febien Delph for half of that and it'd still be better than Cleverley and Anderson together, defensively.I really wish Veron was given more time. I reckon he would've come good eventually had he stayed with us, he was too good not to. He did take responsibility for his form here, but I don't feel he was ever really utilised properly either to be fair to him.
Despite not living up to expectations, letting Veron go for a £13m loss and replacing him with Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson, really highlights what a blind spot midfield seemed to be for Fergie. Luckily he made up for it in nearly every other respect.
Owen Hargreaves was a top midfielder when we signed him and that was within the last decade. The only problem with Hargreaves was the injury issue but he was a top midfielder when we signed him.
Oh yeah, Ferguson totally deserved criticism for the cm situation, no doubt about that. I was speaking in a more general sense, he often got unfair criticism for other things (team selection, tactics, other signings etc.) My point is that the manager will always attract some unfair criticism, no matter who he is. Moyes (as a new manager who hasn't proven anything at this club/level) will obviously attract more. Right now the lack of transfers is the obvious thing to criticise him for so that's what people are doing. It's unfair but that's just the way some fans are, they always look for the negatives. He'll soon be getting criticised for something else, no doubt.
I think SAF would have been criticised for going for Fellaini as well though, it's not just because of Moyes. SAF kept saying we only wanted the right players, Moyes has said we're after the best players. Fellaini is neither of those things (at least in some people's opinion), so some criticism is probably natural. I don't think we can criticise player before they fail but if we have reservations over a player we appear to be about to sign then pointing that out is hardly a problem.
He wasn't absolutely top class though. Keane, Scholes and Veron were top class, Hargreaves was around the Carrick/Fletcher level.
Go on Martinez lad.
Bolded bits are key for me.
1) As i've reiterated before we do not need to sell anyone, so we won't be forced to sell.
2) Martinez doesn't want to sell/they have shown no signs of being unhappy at having to stay if the valuation isn't met.
3) Our valuation of Fellaini must be around or just above the release clause. From the sound of that it must be about £25 million, as you have to remember that the clause was put in before last season when everyone started to take notice.
We need to be realistic...someone might offer 100mil euros for an Everton player!
Ah, reality.
Ah, reality.
Well tbh the sheer fact that no one else triggered the clause would suggest you're the only ones to value him at 23m and up. Tbf you're perfectly entitled to that valuation, hopefully we have other targets though given around 25m would be a lot higher than what we seem to value him at.
That sounds to me as much of a plea to sign him as you're going to get. Clearly encouraging a bid.
Yeah that doesn't make sense from Martinez considering nobody was interested at £23 mill.
The problem is Everton payed above market value when they signed him, so we'll have to do the same.
Oh Bollocks. He was pretty close to the best DM around at the time. He was absolutely top class.
We're gonna feck this one up as well aren't we?
What a disaster of a transfer window.
What a disaster of a transfer window.
He was crap.
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