Fellaini

[Ekeke]

Doesn't make much sense - he's 28 and you've got Evra. Will be a sign that Moyes can't transcend his mid-table mentality.

Evra will be on the decline now and Baines is in his prime to take over. He's also the majority of the reason Moyes has done well at Everton, Everton had the most reliance on their left side in the entire league.

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

Because for some reason, it seems like we absolutely have to sign Fellaini. Looks like after the Fabregas knock back, a depressed David Moyes has been reading the redcafe transfer forum and in his impressionable state, believed every word about him being our one stop top class midfield maker.

Baines sort of makes sense from the view of, he's the best left back in the league and could possibly become the best in the world. Fellaini on the other hand, none of that applies

We'd hardly ever sign anyone with that kind of attitude, maybe that's why Fergie avoided signing any midfielders for so long, though admittedly he had no problem signing the likes of Bebe and Buttner. Thinking about it those two may seem relatively low risk because of the fees involved, but that combined £11m could be used right now to fund a higher profile transfer and would arguably present far better value. I wouldn't even mind Fellaini for £30m when I consider some of the money that's been frittered away in the past.

You don't necessarily have to sign the best players in their respective positions to improve the team, it's just something a lot of United fans hope for, but some seem to expect.

 

[Ekeke]

We'd hardly ever sign anyone with that kind of attitude, maybe that's why Fergie avoided signing any midfielders for so long, though admittedly he had no problem signing the likes of Bebe and Buttner. Thinking about it those two may seem relatively low risk because of the fees involved, but that combined £11m could be used right now to fund a higher profile transfer and would arguably present far better value. I wouldn't even mind Fellaini for £30m when I consider some of the money that's been frittered away in the past.

You don't necessarily have to sign the best players in their respective positions to improve the team, it's just something a lot of United fans hope for, but some seem to expect.

I didnt say we shouldnt sign him. But I will say it would be ridiculous to spend £30 million on him. But that didnt need saying, nobody was willing to touch him with a barge pole at £23 million without even needing to talk to Everton.

I said we're clearly desperate now for Baines and Fellaini specifically and that makes sense in Baines case because he's the best in his position in the league and arguably or soon perhaps best in the world.

That doesn't apply to Fellaini so we shouldnt be so dead-set on him that we're willing to pay over the top for him, there are other midfielders we could sign who also arent the best in their positions in the league. With Baines there are no alternatives. With Fellaini there are, even if we decide he's the best one.

 

[peterstorey]

Evra will be on the decline now and Baines is in his prime to take over. He's also the majority of the reason Moyes has done well at Everton, Everton had the most reliance on their left side in the entire league.

That's because Everton didn't have other attacking options, you can't channel that much play through Baines in a top side.

 

[Ekeke]

That's because Everton didn't have other attacking options, you can't channel that much play through Baines in a top side.

Probably but even if we use him half as much he'd still be better than Evra. And some players improve at United, Baines will have as much chance as the rest.

 

[Nighteyes]

Probably but even if we use him half as much he'd still be better than Evra.

Stop exaggerating

 

[apotheosis]

Doesn't make much sense - he's 28 and you've got Evra. Will be a sign that Moyes can't transcend his mid-table mentality.

Or that he wants what he knows he can rely on, only time will tell. If he had gone for Fellaini before the other targets, you may have had more of an argument. As it is there are not that many other better options available this late in the day.

Be interesting to see how Wenger gets on, as he is in a similar predicament. In his case though, i think he only has himself to blame for putting so much pressure on himself. Moyes is really trying to address a inherited weakness in a relatively short space of time.

 

[walsh]

Probably but even if we use him half as much he'd still be better than Evra. And some players improve at United, Baines will have as much chance as the rest.

It seems you're hugely underestimating Evra's contribution, not to mention that he's one of the most popular members of the squad and has regularly been captain.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Manager in signing players he knows and trusts shocker.

Honestly Pete, sometimes I wonder if you know anything.

 

[Ekeke]

It seems you're hugely underestimating Evra's contribution, not to mention that he's one of the most popular members of the squad and has regularly been captain.

You're underestimating how much Everton rely on Baines. I say again, they rely on their left side more than any other side in the league. Baines is what enabled Moyes to play how he did and be successful

 

[walsh]

Manager in signing players he knows and trusts shocker.

Honestly Pete, sometimes I wonder if you know anything.

He knows that he only has to post a thinly veiled WUM to get 2 pages of disagreeable responses.

 

[walsh]

You're underestimating how much Everton rely on Baines. I say again, they rely on their left side more than any other side in the league. Baines is what enabled Moyes to play how he did and be successful

Well yeah, but I don't think if you put Baines in our team that he'd instantly outshine Evra other than with his set-pieces.

 

[peterstorey]

Manager in signing players he knows and trusts shocker.

Honestly Pete, sometimes I wonder if you know anything.

The fairly simple point is that they were players he knew and trusted at Everton - they're not players you want to sign for Man Utd. He doesn't manage Everton any more.

 

[Ish]

The fairly simple point is that they were players he knew and trusted at Everton - they're not players you want to sign for Man Utd. He doesn't manage Everton any more.

Yeah, I'm not advocating for s to sign Baines, but he's been one if the best lb's in the country for a couple of seasons now. & on Fellaini, you don't necessarily need to sign a "world class" payer to do a job for you. We might just need him to step in & perform at a consistent 7 next to Carrick. It's a position we definitely need bodies in.

I'm sure when SAF signed Carrick, a ton of people had the same opinion. "Not top 4 quality" & look how that turned out. At times, you'd swear we've been playing with Carrick alone in midfield. So even Fellaini might be a step up.

 

[peterstorey]

I'm sure when SAF signed Carrick, a ton of people had the same opinion. "Not top 4 quality" & look how that turned out. At times, you'd swear we've been playing with Carrick alone in midfield. So even Fellaini might be a step up.

Carrick was always a very good midfield player (classic wing-half in old money), even at West Ham. If he had a bit more moxy he'd have been a great player. None of that is applicable to Fellaini.

 

[LR7]

Pete's right, they're safe "comfort blanket" signings rather than what we actually need and what we should be aiming for.

 

[Ekeke]

Well yeah, but I don't think if you put Baines in our team that he'd instantly outshine Evra other than with his set-pieces.

Of course he would coming forward and with his delivery. Its insane how much Baines contributed from LB in recent years. Why do you think he's been our first and biggest target this summer? We went for him first and most

 

[Sunny Jim]

so what the status?
still nothing?

 

[Alock1]

Carrick was always a very good midfield player (classic wing-half in old money), even at West Ham. If he had a bit more moxy he'd have been a great player. None of that is applicable to Fellaini.

Except Baines was already a transfer target for United before Moyes. Forgot how world class Cabaye is considered...

 

[Ish]

Carrick was always a very good midfield player (classic wing-half in old money), even at West Ham. If he had a bit more moxy he'd have been a great player. None of that is applicable to Fellaini.

Agreed about the Carrick bit - though he seems to be getting "moxier" with age. He's really relishing in his senior role. I don't think Fellaini's as shit as you think he is (similarly to how crap you think Fletcher is), but I also don't think he's the type of player we need (we need a CM playmaker & cover for Carrick IMO) or shoud go after.

But we'll see.

 

[Ekeke]

so what the status?
still nothing?

We bid for him once, got rejected and apparently some people think we're about to bid for him again

 

[Amir]

We're preparing a new bid. Forgot to buy sugar and eggs so we'll continue preparing it tomorrow. Oven has been set. So exciting.

 

[rio's upper lip]

We're preparing a new bid. Forgot to buy sugar and eggs so we'll continue preparing it tomorrow. Oven has been set. So exciting.

We'll see about that!

I wonder what the feck Woodwoodwood has been doing all damn summer.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Pete's right, they're safe "comfort blanket" signings rather than what we actually need and what we should be aiming for.

What should we be aiming for? Midfielders of Carrick and Scholes ilk?

Maybe a young Keane?

 

[Sunny Jim]

We bid for him once, got rejected and apparently some people think we're about to bid for him again

Gracias amigo

 

[Ekeke]

What should we be aiming for? Midfielders of Carrick and Scholes ilk?

Maybe a young Keane?

If we're not even aiming for Carrick level midfielders we'll never see the likes of Scholes and Keane again.

Fellaini is a Carrick level midfielder when he first joined, but with a vastly different skill set and can play more positions

 

[Hellboy]

Have to agree with pete.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Pete is annoyingly right most of the time. Except when it comes to Arsenal.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

If we're not even aiming for Carrick level midfielders we'll never see the likes of Scholes and Keane again.

Fellaini is a Carrick level midfielder when he first joined, but with a vastly different skill set and can play more positions

My point is that Keane and Carrick were not Keane and Carrick as we remember them when we bought them. They became the players that we remember at United. Same with Scholes, took him a long time to turn into the finished article.

LR7 and these boys seem to be of the opinion that we should only buy top top players so I question do they actually know anything about the club they support especially in that position. feck it actually, how often do we buy the finished article in any position other than striker?

 

[Ekeke]

I sort of agree with Pete. There's definitely an element of what he's suggesting. But they are still good players who will improve us in their positions. Unfortunately we're starting to bend over with the fee if its whats been reported.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Pete is full of shit. Going by that thinking you should only be buying players who are already on the tier you need them at which goes against pretty much everything this club stands for. Not every player in the team has to be a superstar. You need your share of water carriers too.

 

[LR7]

My point is that Keane and Carrick were not Keane and Carrick as we remember them when we bought them. They became the players that we remember at United. Same with Scholes, took him a long time to turn into the finished article.

LR7 and these boys seem to be of the opinion that we should only buy top top players so I question do they actually know anything about the club they support especially in that position. feck it actually, how often do we buy the finished article in any position other than striker?

You're jumping to conclusions. I haven't said we need a marquee signing. I thought Gustavo was a far better alternative but we weren't interested. He isn't world class either.

I don't like Fellaini at all and I don't think he suits our club in the slightest. He isn't good enough. I don't think he's good enough for Arsenal either, so its not me being a snobbish spoilt fan and thinking we have to get the best there is. Thiago and Cesc were along the right lines and to me that we were even in for them (Cesc definite interest, Thiago maybe) tells me that a Moyes knows the quality of player that we need there. Fellaini is far far from it imo.

Marchisio is another option who I believe said he was flattered at our interest earlier in the summer. Kondogbia is a young DM albeit with contractual issues. Cabaye isn't top class but I'd have him any day over Fellaini. There are other options, people are acting like Fellaini is the last CM in the world.

There has been a decent amount of CM movement over the summer and not one club triggered Fellaini's clause.

 

[dev1l]

Pete is full of shit. Going by that thinking you should only be buying players who are already on the tier you need them at which goes against pretty much everything this club stands for. Not every player in the team has to be a superstar. You need your share of water carriers too.

Well said..... taking away few exceptions like Van Persie, United make rather than buy great players.

 

[peterstorey]

Pete is full of shit. Going by that thinking you should only be buying players who are already on the tier you need them at which goes against pretty much everything this club stands for. Not every player in the team has to be a superstar. You need your share of water carriers too.

Nope, you need players who are up to it or can develop to be up to it (and beyond). What you don't want is players who aren't up to it and are never going to be up to it.

 

[Ekeke]

Fellaini is a good player, Pete is just wumming when he suggests otherwise. That doesnt make him the right player or a £23 million one, but he's clearly not a donkey who wouldnt improve on Cleverley or Anderson by much.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

You're jumping to conclusions. I haven't said we need a marquee signing. I thought Gustavo was a far better alternative but we weren't interested. He isn't world class either.

I don't like Fellaini at all and I don't think he suits our club in the slightest. He isn't good enough. I don't think he's good enough for Arsenal either, so its not me being a snobbish spoilt fan and thinking we have to get the best there is. Thiago and Cesc were along the right lines and to me that we were even in for them (Cesc definite interest, Thiago maybe) tells me that a Moyes knows the quality of player that we need there. Fellaini is far far from it imo.

Marchisio is another option who I believe said he was flattered at our interest earlier in the summer. Kondogbia is a young DM albeit with contractual issues. Cabaye isn't top class but I'd have him any day over Fellaini. There are other options, people are acting like Fellaini is the last CM in the world.

There has been a decent amount of CM movement over the summer and not one club triggered Fellaini's clause.

The point is when we bought Keane he was from a side just relegated and wasn't a shadow of the player we remember his as, when we bought Carrick he wasn't a patch on Keane and took several years to develop into the player he is now.

Cesc and Thiago are (Thiago being young aside) the finished article. We just haven't bought players like this for our midfield apart from Veron and that didn't work out too well. Pete is wrong for all the wrong reasons. He says Fellaini aren't good enough because they play for Everton and that's there level. I say that we should buy them from that level and turn them into better players by playing with better players.

Fellaini will end up signing for us and will be a hero at this club very quickly. Mark my words on that.

 

[LR7]

Fellaini is a good player, Pete is just wumming when he suggests otherwise. That doesnt make him the right player or a £23 million one, but he's clearly not a donkey who wouldnt improve on Cleverley or Anderson by much.

Why does he have to be wumming because he has a different opinion, its not compulsory to like him.

 

[paceme]

They're only safe comfortable blankets for the people who don't like them, nothing wrong with not liking him as a player but using your bias against a player as a basis for an argument is daft.

 

[Ash_G]

The point is when we bought Keane he was from a side just relegated and wasn't a shadow of the player we remember his as, when we bought Carrick he wasn't a patch on Keane and took several years to develop into the player he is now.

Cesc and Thiago are (Thiago being young aside) the finished article. We just haven't bought players like this for our midfield apart from Veron and that didn't work out too well. Pete is wrong for all the wrong reasons. He says Fellaini aren't good enough because they play for Everton and that's there level. I say that we should buy them from that level and turn them into better players by playing with better players.

Fellaini will end up signing for us and will be a hero at this club very quickly. Mark my words on that.

Well can only hope. Only difference I would say is that, do we want to compete now or in a few years time. Plus Keane wasn't 25 when he signed, by 25 he was a top midfielder, Carrick was putting in very good performances in central midfield when he joined us and had all the tools to take his game forward in our engine room, defensive ability, range with either foot and vision. Fellaini is 25, nearly 26 and spent most the last 2 seasons as a number 10. How many great central midfield performances has he put in? Additionally what aspects of his game really look like they can be taken on. He's not box to box in the sense Keane was, he doesn't have the passing ability of a Carrick or Scholes. He's got strength, is great aerially and nice technique, but I can't see much that would make him a top central midfield player.

So whilst I can see him making the midfield stronger for the league, I'm not sure how much of an improvement it would be, we'd be sacrificing the link up play of clev for the physical presence of Fellaini, similarly in europe, even that is questionable as it style might lead to a lot of fouls.

I don't think there's a problem with bringing in players from lower down in the league, no different to bringing in a player from a smaller league but there's got to be that potential and I'm just not sure how much of that is there. Hope I'm wrong but think if he did come we'd still be talking about needing to improve the middle to compete with the best next summer.

 

[LR7]

The point is when we bought Keane he was from a side just relegated and wasn't a shadow of the player we remember his as, when we bought Carrick he wasn't a patch on Keane and took several years to develop into the player he is now.

Cesc and Thiago are (Thiago being young aside) the finished article. We just haven't bought players like this for our midfield apart from Veron and that didn't work out too well. Pete is wrong for all the wrong reasons. He says Fellaini aren't good enough because they play for Everton and that's there level. I say that we should buy them from that level and turn them into better players by playing with better players.

Fellaini will end up signing for us and will be a hero at this club very quickly. Mark my words on that.

Thiago isn't the finished article - speak to Barcelona fans or people who watched him regularly and they'll agree, but his talent was undeniable.

Someone a few days ago (maybe yesterday?) said Martinez was going to use the Fellaini money to buy McCarthy from Wigan and iirc Pete suggested that us and Arsenal should be going for him over Fellaini.
he isn't a top class player, or a finished article, he's a younger player with potential from a club now in the Championship who would grow and mature into a better player at a top level club just like you described.

Some of us don't like Fellaini or the way he plays. It's as simple as that really and nothing to do with only wanting finished article/ready made world class players.