Fellaini

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Erentz said:
Exactly why he shouldn't be turning to Fellaini and Baines, they're at the level they should be at, a team fighting to get into Europe, not a team looking to win the European cup. Lets not forget that in one of his earlier interviews after he got the job, there was something mentioned about him and Lumsden regularly having lengthy talks about the players they would love to sign if they were at a club like United, are Baines and Fellaini now their dream signings? this is some baffling bollocks going on here.

I'd rather they didn't sign anyone and just go with Carrick, Anderson, Cleverley and when he's fit Powell, maybe Moyes can then get his crack unit of super scouts to scour the earth for a player superior to Fellaini, that should take them all of 10 minutes.
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Baines is arguably the best left back in the league; him having reached his level is bullshit. Fellaini could quite easily move up; considering he's better than quite a few midfielders currently at the top clubs and his best performances often come versus the top teams in the league.

Fergie deserves a lot of the flak that Moyes is currently taking. Moyes must now buy a player that would normally require a lot more homework in a market where there's little players available at the level we'd like - Fellaini is a safe, decent option that will be beneficial long-term but also tide us over short-term for a more expensive, better midfielder.
 
100 said:
Baines is arguably the best left back in the league; him having reached his level is bullshit. Fellaini could quite easily move up; considering he's better than quite a few midfielders currently at the top clubs and his best performances often come versus the top teams in the league.

Fergie deserves a lot of the flak that Moyes is currently taking. Moyes must now buy a player that would normally require a lot more homework in a market where there's little players available at the level we'd like - Fellaini is a safe, decent option that will be beneficial long-term but also tide us over short-term for a more expensive, better midfielder.
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Yeah, let's not forget, we'll almost certainly need to replace Giggs in the next 8 years as well.
 
ESPN saying we're gonna make a combined 35m bid for Baines and Fellaini. That's presumably 14m + 21m? Seems like as much as we should be offering. Wouldn't be surprised if Everton force us a bit higher though, they probably think we're desperate enough for reinforcements to pay more.
 
Ramshock said:
There is a fallacy permeating this forum about how Fellaini is not cut out for United. I have been watching football for almost 30 years and spent 14 years coaching it and over time I think I can spot the strengths and weaknesses of most players I watch. Here is how I think Fellaini would work out at United.

Advantages

He would solidify a midfield that has been lacking a consistent ball winner and physical presence since Roy Keane.
His passing is short and simple.
Surprisingly quick footed with the ball in tight situations
His aerial presence at set pieces will be beneficial for us in both boxes.
His overall aerial ability is probably unsurpassed in the PL
He does have an eye for goal in the box and I imagine he would get close to 10 for us per season.
Worked with the previous manager before.

Disadvantages

Lack of pace could hurt in a fast flowing game. However if he is to sit the furthest back in a midfield 3 that may not be a big of an issue.
His temperament is questionable at times and he might pick up cards quite regularly.
Does not have a long range shot or the ability to score many outside the box
Not consistent enough with through balls or incisive passing

As you can see, for me, the advantages outweigh the doubts. I think would think has been made clear by Moyes transfer targets this summer
and that is he values players with premier league experience and to me that is the key with Fellaini.
He isnt the big extravagant latin signing everyone is clamoring for and because he is perceived as a long ball donkey many on here
dismiss him as being a legitimately good player for us. I think overall he would give us an extra edge in both boxes and some steel in midfield and
certainly would flourish being surrounded by better players.
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Good work Rams, thanks for that.
Picking up cards will be a welcome change in our midfield imo. Directly snapping at opposition players in the right area's could really go a long way to tightening up the link play from Carrick. If it can be sent to another level from obscene that is.
 
ghaliboy said:
Good work Rams, thanks for that.
Picking up cards will be a welcome change in our midfield imo. Directly snapping at opposition players in the right area's could really go a long way to tightening up the link play from Carrick. If it can be sent to another level from obscene that is.
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Many people have called the likes of Fletcher and others at United limited but they've played their role in making the TEAM a top team. All "not limited" players in one team do not make a top team - Arsenal are a very good example.
 
Shimo said:
Many people have called the likes of Fletcher and others at United limited but they've played their role in making the TEAM a top team. All "not limited" players in one team do not make a top team - Arsenal are a very good example.
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Xavi and Schweinsteiger are 'limited,' most players are. It's that their qualities and their team-mates qualities so heavily outweigh their weaknesses that make them great players.
 
Shimo said:
Many people have called the likes of Fletcher and others at United limited but they've played their role in making the TEAM a top team. All "not limited" players in one team do not make a top team - Arsenal are a very good example.
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If you go back and watch old games with Fletcher in them from around 08/09 the midfield dynamic is completely different. Opposition were basically conducted by the way Fletcher harassed neatly and smartly. Leaving Carrick to play his position and pivot for the intercept.
 
Ramshock said:
Does not have a long range shot or the ability to score many outside the box
Not consistent enough with through balls or incisive passing
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Agree with most of what you posted but thought i'd pick up on these two disadvantages. Not saying you are wrong on them either.

He doesn't get much opportunity to take shots from outside the box to be fair and his finishing is actually probably one of the poorer parts of his game which makes his scoring achievements a little more impressive. He is more the player to try low 'finesse' shots (apologies for using a FIFA term) from outside the box when he gets a chance and he isn't that bad at it.

The second point, as you say, it's really the consistency of this which is a downside right now but i have no doubt that if he moved to United he would be able to step up to the plate and do so as he is perfectly capable of it and last season when we had counters he did it on a number of occasions. I think that if he stays with us this season we will see it more often too because Martinez seems the type of manager who can get a bit more out of him in a 'passing' sense.
 
I think most posters expect us a to sign a midfielder that has all the complete skill set. However, we hardly ever do that (with exception of Seba Veron). We buy players with good potential and several attributes who the manager expect can grow even better with better players surrounding him and better platform to display their ability.

- See Michael Carrick (Spurs early 2000). Have you seen how he played for Spurs before signing for us? While he passed the ball around and was their dead-ball specialist, he was hardly commanding and bossing the midfield. And he took a few years to adapt at United while many posters jeered him for not being a box-to-box player.


- See Roy Keane (Nottingham Forest, late 80s, early 90s): While he played for Forest, he was energetic, strong and an attacking midfielder and centre back at times, but even got relegated with them in final season. Doesnt mean he was crap! He also took 1-2 years to grow into the United midfield after taking over the box-to-box position from Incey. Only really came into his own in late 90s.Many forgot how he played under Cloughie's Forest side.

Hence, I expect to see Fellaini grow into United's centre midfield. He might or not make the step-up. Many have failed (see Liam Miller, Jim Pakistan, Kleberson, Quinny Fortune, Alan Smith experiment). But this does not mean that Moyes' strategy is anything remarkably differene from Fergie's. How many world-class, established CM did he buy?1 and that was Veron.

Think Fellani will add bite, devilry and goals from CM. For through-balls, creativity, we have to depend on Carrick and deep dropping forwards.
 
I've been back and forth on this but I think it'd be a good move at this stage, although I can't say I'm impressed how seemingly our scouts haven't been able to identify any suitable midfielders for us in the whole of Europe (or world) that didn't involve trying to raid Barca, and failing that we'll just go back to the midtable club we nabbed our manager from and pick the best of an average bunch.

We've lacked physicality and presence in midfield, he'll add a huge aerial prowess in both an attacking and defensive sense, he's shown himself to have very good touch and link up play especially last season. I know he's caught the eye most as #10 but I feel even playing him as a midfielder we'll be coming out a lot of games saying "they just couldn't handle him".

Don't want Baines, complete unnecessary and not the age or profile of player we should be after.
 
Fellaini may not be the midfielder we need to beat Barca but he absolutely will be able to mix it with the 60 to 70% of premier league teams who try to beat the top teams by being physical. On top of the devilry (yellow cards) and intimidating size and strength, he has more than a bit of skill.
 
Dominos said:
I've been back and forth on this but I think it'd be a good move at this stage, although I can't say I'm impressed how seemingly our scouts haven't been able to identify any suitable midfielders for us in the whole of Europe (or world) that didn't involve trying to raid Barca, and failing that we'll just go back to the midtable club we nabbed our manager from and pick the best of an average bunch.

We've lacked physicality and presence in midfield, he'll add a huge aerial prowess in both an attacking and defensive sense, he's shown himself to have very good touch and link up play especially last season. I know he's caught the eye most as #10 but I feel even playing him as a midfielder we'll be coming out a lot of games saying "they just couldn't handle him".

Don't want Baines, complete unnecessary and not the age or profile of player we should be after.
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Agree with you Dominos about our transfer methods to a point but I still think we will sign a midfielder to compliment Fellaini before the window shuts.
 
I reckon Fellaini will have to hand in a transfer request if we want to get him for around £20m, otherwise we will be looking to pay min £23m.
 
Nate Dogg said:
I reckon Fellaini will have to hand in a transfer request if we want to get him for around £20m, otherwise we will be looking to pay min £23m.
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The fact that the club waited until his £23m release clause expired indicates they have absolutely no intention of going that high.
 
Dominos said:
I've been back and forth on this but I think it'd be a good move at this stage, although I can't say I'm impressed how seemingly our scouts haven't been able to identify any suitable midfielders for us in the whole of Europe (or world) that didn't involve trying to raid Barca, and failing that we'll just go back to the midtable club we nabbed our manager from and pick the best of an average bunch.

We've lacked physicality and presence in midfield, he'll add a huge aerial prowess in both an attacking and defensive sense, he's shown himself to have very good touch and link up play especially last season. I know he's caught the eye most as #10 but I feel even playing him as a midfielder we'll be coming out a lot of games saying "they just couldn't handle him".

Don't want Baines, complete unnecessary and not the age or profile of player we should be after.
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Don't blame the scouting staff. Our chief scout has 'retired' and we all know how Moyes treated the coaching staff of the previous administration. I am more disappointed with Moyes who seem unwilling to look beyond the EPL or/and Everton. Fabregas was a former Arsenal captain. Baines, Felliani and the rest of his coaching staff were from Everton.
 
Cina said:
The fact that the club waited until his £23m release clause expired indicates they have absolutely no intention of going that high.
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Indeed - the panic of the date of his release clause from many on here was laughable, some were suggesting we would have to pay £30m after it expired!
It was clear all along that Everton were desperate for someone to trigger the release clause, that is why Kenwright made it puclic right at the start of the summer.

The fact is that release clause or not, he is worth around £20m - I expect we would probably go a bit higher with add ons etc.
 
I can't see any way that Everton would let him go for less then release fee... even if Fellaini handed in a transfer request (which I don't see him doing - as he's not guarenteed a move) it'll just make them look incredibly weak if they do so, and Kenwright isn't the type of bloke that likes his club to look weak.
 
devilish said:
Don't blame the scouting staff. Our chief scout has 'retired' and we all know how Moyes treated the coaching staff of the previous administration. I am more disappointed with Moyes who seem unwilling to look beyond the EPL or/and Everton. Fabregas was a former Arsenal captain. Baines, Felliani and the rest of his coaching staff were from Everton.
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The vast majority of Fergie's recent signings have been from home teams so that is not a new Moyes policy.
Plus Moyes has only been in the job for a couple of months and it is well documented that he spends a lot of time following targets before signing them, it will take him a while to build up a new network of overseas targets as he can aim much higher than the players he would have been looking at for Everton.
 
devilish said:
Don't blame the scouting staff. Our chief scout has 'retired' and we all know how Moyes treated the coaching staff of the previous administration. I am more disappointed with Moyes who seem unwilling to look beyond the EPL or/and Everton. Fabregas was a former Arsenal captain. Baines, Felliani and the rest of his coaching staff were from Everton.
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To be fair there is nothing wrong with Moyes trying to be safe with his first purchase.

If he goes mental and buys a risky player who flops, he will be labelled as "poor" in the transfer market.
 
I can't imagine what the reaction on here would be if we were on the brink of signing our first genuine CM in ages(on deadline day) and Arsenal hi-jack the deal at the last minute to sign Fellaini for £23m.

Even the people that don't want him would probably go ballistic! :lol:
 
Cina said:
The fact that the club waited until his £23m release clause expired indicates they have absolutely no intention of going that high.
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That is my thinking too, also i reckon he is out fallback plan, reading between the lines and based on our transfer rumours i would say Cesc is our number target, followed by possibly Modric and then Fellaini.
 
Adam-Utd said:
To be fair there is nothing wrong with Moyes trying to be safe with his first purchase.

If he goes mental and buys a risky player who flops, he will be labelled as "poor" in the transfer market.
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Irrespective of whom he's going to buy, Moyes will be judged on success. If he fails to bring success on short/mid term then people will still judge his transfer signings and his football knowledge which seems limited to the EPL (whose lets face it is hardly the best league to make bargains)
 
Rood said:
The vast majority of Fergie's recent signings have been from home teams so that is not a new Moyes policy.
Plus Moyes has only been in the job for a couple of months and it is well documented that he spends a lot of time following targets before signing them, it will take him a while to build up a new network of overseas targets as he can aim much higher than the players he would have been looking at for Everton.
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Do you think so? I think that SAF has always gone for a mix. In 2012 - 2013 he brought 5 foreign based players (Kagawa, Henriquez, Varela (I cant see him as Moyes signing), Kagawa and Buttner and three local based players (Zaha, RVP and Powell). The year before that he went for 2 foreign based player (De Gea and Januzaj) and 2 local based players (Young and Jones). The year before that we brought 1 local based player (Smalling) and three foreign based players (Hernandez, Lindegaard and Bebe Superstar)
 
Longlivekeano said:
I think most posters expect us a to sign a midfielder that has all the complete skill set. However, we hardly ever do that (with exception of Seba Veron). We buy players with good potential and several attributes who the manager expect can grow even better with better players surrounding him and better platform to display their ability.

- See Michael Carrick (Spurs early 2000). Have you seen how he played for Spurs before signing for us? While he passed the ball around and was their dead-ball specialist, he was hardly commanding and bossing the midfield. And he took a few years to adapt at United while many posters jeered him for not being a box-to-box player.


- See Roy Keane (Nottingham Forest, late 80s, early 90s): While he played for Forest, he was energetic, strong and an attacking midfielder and centre back at times, but even got relegated with them in final season. Doesnt mean he was crap! He also took 1-2 years to grow into the United midfield after taking over the box-to-box position from Incey. Only really came into his own in late 90s.Many forgot how he played under Cloughie's Forest side.

Hence, I expect to see Fellaini grow into United's centre midfield. He might or not make the step-up. Many have failed (see Liam Miller, Jim Pakistan, Kleberson, Quinny Fortune, Alan Smith experiment). But this does not mean that Moyes' strategy is anything remarkably differene from Fergie's. How many world-class, established CM did he buy?1 and that was Veron.

Think Fellani will add bite, devilry and goals from CM. For through-balls, creativity, we have to depend on Carrick and deep dropping forwards.
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That's the best post in the thread and anyone talking shite about United level players doesn't know their recent history.
 
devilish said:
Irrespective of whom he's going to buy, Moyes will be judged on success. If he fails to bring success on short/mid term then people will still judge his transfer signings and his football knowledge which seems limited to the EPL (whose lets face it is hardly the best league to make bargains)
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That's a crock of shite. Where have all evertons signings come from then? All premier players were they?
 
devilish said:
Do you think so? I think that SAF has always gone for a mix. In 2012 - 2013 he brought 5 foreign based players (Kagawa, Henriquez, Varela (I cant see him as Moyes signing), Kagawa and Buttner and three local based players (Zaha, RVP and Powell). The year before that he went for 2 foreign based player (De Gea and Januzaj) and 2 local based players (Young and Jones). The year before that we brought 1 local based player (Smalling) and three foreign based players (Hernandez, Lindegaard and Bebe Superstar)
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the overseas signing are all cheap punts apart from Kagawa and De Gea, you only really expect about 1 in 5 of those to work out - vast majority of the major signings are locally based.
It is unreasonable to expect Moyes to have sorted out a list of overseas targets for United after only having been in the job for a few weeks, by next summer it will be a different story.

and with Fellaini is not just that he is proven PL quality, obviously Moyes knows him in great detail.
 
devilish said:
I haven't understood you!
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You said 'his football knowledge and transfers seem to be limited to the EPL'. I'm saying it's clearly a crock of shite statement, lazily made because he's attempting to get a proven pl player as his first signing. He's been buying players from all over the place for years now so I think we can assume he has a broader knowledge base than you give him credit for.
 
My only worry at the moment really is that just Fellaini won't be quite enough - and we won't have enough time to bring in anyone else in before the window closes.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
You said 'his football knowledge and transfers seem to be limited to the EPL'. I'm saying it's clearly a crock of shite statement, lazily made because he's attempting to get a proven pl player as his first signing. He's been buying players from all over the place for years now so I think we can assume he has a broader knowledge base than you give him credit for.
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Ah ok, I understood you now.

In that post I am talking in general and not what I think/believe. If Moyes ends up piling EPL/Everton players up and is not successful then that's the criticism that the media/fans will throw at him. You only have to look at King Kenny for that.

On the other hand if he brings 11 Bebe level players from Everton youth ranks and he wins some important honours then rest assured that everyone will hail him a genius irrespective of the shite players he brought. Rafa at his prime at Liverpool is a prime example of that.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
My only worry at the moment really is that just Fellaini won't be quite enough - and we won't have enough time to bring in anyone else in before the window closes.
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If we held on to everyone else and signed Fellaini then we'd be strengthening an already excellent squad. You have to expect a lot of the players who were poor last season to step up, we couldn't be as unlucky again with defensive injuries and there seems to be a few excellent young lads coming through the ranks to bolster the squad.

We can still only play 11 at any one time.
 
Rood said:
the overseas signing are all cheap punts apart from Kagawa and De Gea, you only really expect about 1 in 5 of those to work out - vast majority of the major signings are locally based.
It is unreasonable to expect Moyes to have sorted out a list of overseas targets for United after only having been in the job for a few weeks, by next summer it will be a different story.

and with Fellaini is not just that he is proven PL quality, obviously Moyes knows him in great detail.
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Its how you see it. De Gea, Kagawa and RVP were clearly brought to seriously compete for a first team place. Jones, Smalling, Young, Lindegaard and Buttner were brought to strengthen the team's strength in depth. Januzaj, Powell and Henriquez are for the future. Varela is somehow at the middle between the former two categories.
 
devilish said:
Ah ok, I understood you now.

In that post I am talking in general and not what I think/believe. If Moyes ends up piling EPL/Everton players up and is not successful then that's the criticism that the media/fans will throw at him. You only have to look at King Kenny for that.

On the other hand if he brings 11 Bebe level players from Everton youth ranks and he wins some important honours then rest assured that everyone will hail him a genius irrespective of the shite players he brought. Rafa at his prime at Liverpool is a prime example of that.
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I firmly believe that the reason he wants the first player to be prem proven is to be assured of a certain level of success. After this window he will be looking further afield.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I firmly believe that the reason he wants the first player to be prem proven is to be assured of a certain level of success. After this window he will be looking further afield.
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And I agree with you. However rest assured that if United fail then such strategy will be heavily criticized. Moyes has already been criticized in this very forum for bringing in his own men and getting rid of the majority of the coaching staff of the previous administration.
 
devilish said:
And I agree with you. However rest assured that if United fail then such strategy will be heavily criticized. Moyes has already been criticized in this very forum for bringing in his own men and getting rid of the majority of the coaching staff of the previous administration.
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I would put very little value on the opinions of those who have been criticising tbh.
 
Some people in this thread really need to do some reading about the new manager. His atttitude towards transfers is anything but limited.
 
devilish said:
his transfer signings and his football knowledge which seems limited to the EPL
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Yes, like Fellaini, who he was so sure about he spent £15m on, despite him being a 20 year old from Belgium.

Or Mirallas, Oviedo, Jelavic, Naismith, Velios, Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga, Gueye, Jacobsen, Coleman...

In fact, at a quick count, I'd say in the last 5 seasons, Moyes signed 16 first team-ish players. Of those the above 11 were from outside England, while only Saha, Distin, Gibson, Beckford and Neill were from England - and those 5 were pretty much all free.
 
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