It was, unfortunately it probably means we'll have to pay more now. The offer we made (while fair in terms of value) was really unfair from Everton's point of view as they'd be selling at a loss. Everton overpayed for Fellaini so now we'll have to overpay too. If we do then I suppose it'll justify the fee they payed.
Fellaini
- Thread starter Bilbo
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It was, unfortunately it probably means we'll have to pay more now. The offer we made (while fair in terms of value) was really unfair from Everton's point of view as they'd be selling at a loss. Everton overpayed for Fellaini so now we'll have to overpay too. If we do then I suppose it'll justify the fee they payed.
We should buy him but we should have wrapped up his signing before pre-season tbh and still looked at another CM in the ilk of Cesc, Modric or similar.
This. Carrick is defensively intelligent enough to be the player that holds in our midfield. I'd prefer us to sign a more creative player who can take the role Scholes used to have alongside Carrick. Any backup to Carrick we sign doesn't need to be a destroyer. It needs to be someone who is an intelligent defender while also been technically good (like Carrick), or someone with excellent athleticism and stamina (like Fletcher). We've never played with a full out destroyer, it doesn't suit our style.
i think people get too caught up in defining DM's. Bottom line we need more defensive minded midfielders. It's ridiculous to think we can go through another season with only Carrick effective at fulfilling that role. Fellaini isn't a De Jong or a Carrick, but he would be far better than anything we have at providing what we used to get from Fletch. We've missed that, and we look vulnerable through the middle at present. If Carrick get's injured we will struggle to defend midfield effectively, especially in Europe.
Someone who can fulfil defensive duties effectively is a must in my view. 2 solid players protecting the CB's and we already have loads of creativity to play ahead of them, both up front and on the wings.
Again, this is why I was hoping we'd go for someone else. Its been clear for ages we'll have to overpay for him if we want the player. There have to be better options. And if the bidding is around £10-12 million for Cabaye, he's clearly one of them
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-after-insulting-offer-rejected-29511900.html
Everton would be making a loss on him if they sold him for £16mil.
If the report of a 20% sell on clause is actually true (and I seriously doubt it is) then they would only break even at about £20m, in which case they have nothing to lose from keeping him until his contract expires. More likely there is no sell on clause or it is 20% of profit.
also people need to take these stories about offers with a pinch of salt. The media report a joint bid of £28m, but it makes a big difference on whether that is all upfront or installments plus probably there are various add ons etc taking it to a higher value.
Various numbers are thrown about by the media but no one knows the details.
All that is clear is that we are after him and Everton are willing to sell (they wouldn't have made the bid public if they weren't) - I expect a price will be agreed sooner or later, in fact I have expected it since the day Moyes was announced as our manager!
Yea agreed, whilst someone like Fabregas to play alongside would be fantastic, a defensive minded CM is even more crucial.
Fellaini is not the best option, but at this stage he is better than nothing and I'll take him. Just sign him up before the Chelsea game ffs.
The amount of wigs, the club will sell, with this guy in the club will help to sign Real Madrid's first team.
farcial? a bit OTT no?
28 million for both of them, this late in the window, is a bit of a pisstake tbh. Even as a starting offer.
I'm not really sure what you need with Baines either tbh.
I'm not really sure what you need with Baines either tbh.
It's only been remotely farcical if you believe every bit of news that's been touted around. We don't actually know most of what's occurred.
True, sadly the end product has been a tad ... lacking.
If you believe what has been printed and what Sky have reported then I might agree, but 99% of what has been printed and on Sky news is bollocks.
I dont think we have bid for anybody apart from Fagregas and the Everton pair, the rest are just press rubbish.
You know Woodward has thought about that! Stick a United badge on the back of the wig and you can double the price...
As somebody else said in the thread earlier, Fellaini is slightly underrated in terms of quality but overrated in terms of defensive ability. If we're looking for someone to make us defensively sound then Fellaini might not be the best option. He'd provide physicality but I'm not convinced his positioning would be up to scratch, particularly in a position he doesn't always play for Everton.
If he's not a United player before we play Chelsea I'm going to flip.
One thing ppl are forgetting is that Fellaini knows what Moyes wants from him on the pitch from a tactical point of view. For Moyes, signing Fellaini would be a no-risk signing.
This is true. As I said in the Baines thread, it seems pretty clear he wants Everton's strong left side as Baines was the main part and Fellaini would often come over and get involved with Pienaar and Baines to make it a 3 player move. We obviously arent going to sign all 3 though so most likely he's wanting 2 of them with either Kagawa or Welbeck learning the patterns of play they were using at Everton
Better start practicing that ninja flip then mate. This one has deadline day written all over it.
He's far from a no-risk signing; it's uncertain if he can make the step up to the level required at Manchester United. Darron Gibson is a very good player for Everton but he looked out of his depth most of the time at United.
True, as long as Fellaini makes the step up to a top team. Moyes wouldn't be the first manager to bring one of his players to a new club only to find they're not quite good enough for that level.
'United to split “derisory and insulting” bid into one derisory bid and one insulting bid'
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/backof...o-one-derisory-bid-and-one-insulting-bid.aspx
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/backof...o-one-derisory-bid-and-one-insulting-bid.aspx
I don't know why people are getting so caught up in the Chelsea game. Even if we signed him, I doubt he'd be any more than a sub on the day.
possibly not even that
Overrated defensively by whom? Didn't Moyes claim his best position was as a DM? Fellaini said: "I'm happy with my season, although I didn't play in my best position. I'm not a No10. David Moyes predicts my future as a defensive midfielder, but due to a lack of offensive power, he plays me up front. In the future I want to play as a 6 or an 8".
I think it's a little late in the day to be quibbling over the 'best option'. The best options are not available, so the best option for now will be the player who Moyes believes he can get the best out of and rely upon straight away. Surely someone who Moyes already has worked with and understands, with each knowing what to expect from the other, would be the best option for improvement right now. I would love a Modric, Fabregas, Martinez or a Gundogan, but none are available, and would still need time to develop an understanding with the manager.
Overrated defensively by anyone who thinks he'll automatically solve our problem in that area. Moyes thinks it will be his best position, that doesn't mean it's his best position right now. As Fellaini himself pointed out, he hasn't been played there. If we sign him we won't be as easy to bully physically but that doesn't mean teams won't still run through us. If his positional sense is poor we'll still be vulnerable defensively, regardless of how much extra steel and strength he brings.
I wasn't really complaining that we didn't get the best option, I just think people will be surprised if they expect Fellain to be some kind of defensive behemoth. That hasn't really been his game at Everton, has it?
Not last season, but he has played there in the past and played very well in some big games. Only last season he was played as more of a number 10, and he did the business there too. Let's not forget Fletcher didn't have the best positional sense, and was never touted as being a defensive minded player. However he had attributes that allowed him to flourish there, such as his attitude, determination and desire to make a difference. These are all just as important contributing attributes as anything else in midfield, as Fletcher proved on many an occasion. Fellaini has more strength and power, better technical ability, possesses an aerial threat, and i have seen him display similar desire and determination to Fletcher on many occasions. He also shares Fletcher's big game mentality, he thrives on getting stuck into top opponents and we lack that type of personality in our midfield.
Everyone is getting stuck on how well he passes the ball or keeps possession, but that isn't the only consideration surely. Carrick already provides the positional sense and playmaking ability, what we need is someone who provides Fletcher like attributes to best compliment Carrick's contribution. It was successful for us before, a solid combination of aggression and guile provided the perfect platform for the attacking players we had. We have similar attacking talent once again, but lack the platform and protection for the Cb's that we benefitted from before. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and i have little doubt that we would greatly benefit from a player who shows that type of desire to win the midfield, and take responsibility for setting the tone for other to feed from. That is where Fletcher found his niche in our team, helping to replace the type of aggression and determination we had lacked since Keano left. So don't be surprised if we do buy Fellaini and we suddenly look a far more intimidating side, more capable of disrupting and limiting the impact of our opponents top players and limiting their threat as a result.
By anyone claiming he's an outstanding DM at present. With some development maybe, but some people seem to confuse aggression and strength (which he has lots of) with being a really good ball winner or protector of the back 4. He's more aggressive but worse defensively than Carrick and he fouls people a lot.
Why are Everton so upset with us, what did they expect a £50m bid, come on over the years we gave them players like Howard, P Nev, Saha or are they upset that we sold them Gibson?
We don't really need a pure defensive player in midfield though, we just need two players who are both pretty good in their own version of defending, which is what Carrick and Fellaini are, it's the classic combo really, a passer and a runner.
As was, and as did Fletcher. I agree there are many attributes that are required in midfield, but many on here seem obsessed with positional sense and passing ability. The point being, Moyes thinks his best position is deeper and defensive and so does Fellaini. I have already given my view on what i believe Fellaini will bring to our midfield, and have further provided precedent of when Fletcher brought similar attributes and how we benefitted from them.
It's only an opinion, and i make no claims to be irrefutably right, but i do think he would bring far more attributes we currently lack to the table, than many people seem willing to consider. Instead they prefer to focus on his potential weaknesses to justify us not signing him, as opposed to acknowledging all the things he can provide that we would still benefit from if we get him.
In a nutshell, well put.
Only Fellaini isnt a runner. He's a powerhouse who breaks play up a lot with fouls. Generally better teams use that or a Carrick (positional defending) and not both because both is more negative than is needed. Thats something lesser teams normally do, pack the midfield and make it as hard to break down as possible. The "classic" would be closer to Keane and Scholes or Alonso and Khedira who bombs forward every chance he gets. He's a runner, Fellaini is not
You might see carrick being the one doing a bit more running.
A decent view I've seen a lot is that Fellaini would be welcome as a squad player/Carrick deputy/extra player in a weak area.
But isn't enough on his own.
A Carrick/Fellaini mid most weeks surely wouldn't be a great option. I'd much prefer Cleverley's thrust and mobility
But isn't enough on his own.
A Carrick/Fellaini mid most weeks surely wouldn't be a great option. I'd much prefer Cleverley's thrust and mobility
Fellaini might not be a 'runner' by your definition, but he is very capable of playing between the boxes, and knowing when to get forward. He is so much more than just a fouling, elbowing lump, or a long-ball target man, which he seems to be unfairly whittled down to. He's got a very good touch, eye for goal and his passing is very good. I think a Carrick and Fellaini could offer something similar as a unit as what Martinez and Schwein offer Bayern. Two contrasting players who are very effective in their position without being too similar.
Agreed. I'd love us to get Fellaini because at the moment we're fecked if Carrick gets injured, and just need more quality midfielders full stop. But I'm sure I'd then spend most weeks hoping we didn't play him ahead of Cleverley.
Top teams just don't use limited players like Fellaini in CM.
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