Fellaini

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You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.
 
It is ridiculous to use what the club paid six years ago as a basis for what we offer them, if that's the argument some are trying to put across on this here.
 
Revan said:
They are much better than what they were when Everton signed them. They are their two best players. It is stupid saying that the offer was right because they turn 7m profit on two players they have signed 5-6 years ago (especially considering how the prices in today's market are).
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The bid isn't far off what would universally be considered fair value. And is pretty much on a par with the value I'd put on them. Baines isn't worth much more than £12m, if at all. Nobody wanted Fellaini for £20mil+. I said I don't see what is insulting about being offered a profit. Now, had we bid less than they cost initially, I'd see the "insulting" point. But we didn't.

You're arguing against a point I never made, as usual.
 
Revan said:
They are much better than what they were when Everton signed them. They are their two best players. It is stupid saying that the offer was right because they turn 7m profit on two players they have signed 5-6 years ago (especially considering how the prices in today's market are).
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It's an opening bid. I don't think he's suggesting that it's the deal Everton should accept but that it isn't insulting. Everton can't say Fellaini is worth a huge amount more than they signed him for because clearly nobody was willing to pay it. In truth Everton overpaid for him a little. He's worth no more than £20m. Everton are fantasising if they think our bid is derisory because he isn't worth what they seem to think. If the bid for Baines is £12m then it isn't far off either.
 
Revan said:
A lot of people here said that Chelsea's offer for Rooney was insulting. All these offers were offers that there wasn't a chance in hell that the other club would accept. I seriously doubt that Everton would accept anything less that 35 for the two of them which IMO is right considering the prices clubs are paying nowadays. My example was only to tell you that saying that they take some profit on two players they have signed 5-6 years ago is as a poor argument as it gets, especially considering how they have improved and how the market's prices are now higher.
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Tbf though I don't know what clubs are spending £12m plus on a 28 near 29 year old fullback with no CL experience. And I can't think of any comparable midifelders to Fellaini who clubs are looking at spending c£25m on. I guess if you look at crazy fees some clubs have paid than you could make that argument but then you would have to apply that to all transfers. Modric went for like £32m a year ago and he's a different level to Modric.
 
Bilbo said:
I doubt we will pay £23m for him now considering that we could have taken him for that price at any point. The club are probably relieved that there seems to be no serious competition for his signature at this point.
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I'm just concerned if another club becomes interested that it might result in a bidding war. If we pay more than 23m then that is poor on our board's behalf.
 
Glancing back through this thread, there's a lot of talk about Fellaini's technical ability, where he would fit in with our team etc. But nobody seems to be adressing the real issue... the Hair.

Is a midfielder with insanely large hair the sort of flamboyant, easy-to-spot element that we've been missing with so much short-back-and-sides going on? Would his mental afro open the door for him to achieve instant legendary status? Or does he just look an embarassing dick?
 
Revan said:
A lot of people here said that Chelsea's offer for Rooney was insulting. All these offers were offers that there wasn't a chance in hell that the other club would accept. I seriously doubt that Everton would accept anything less that 35 for the two of them which IMO is right considering the prices clubs are paying nowadays. My example was only to tell you that saying that they take some profit on two players they have signed 5-6 years ago is as a poor argument as it gets, especially considering how they have improved and how the market's prices are now higher.
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I didn't say they should accept the bid because it means a profit, I said offering more than what they cost originally isn't offensive or insulting.
 
Bilbo said:
I doubt we will pay £23m for him now considering that we could have taken him for that price at any point. The club are probably relieved that there seems to be no serious competition for his signature at this point.
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Justifiably so.

Its easy to understand why Sir Alex went shopping abroad so much as the years went on. Vidic and Evra together cost about a 3rd as Carroll cost Liverpool, its idiotic.

Navas cost City £17m up front rising to £22m and while I recognise they play in different positions you'd argue that Navas, all in all, is a more distinguished player than Fellaini.

Clubs need to be get taught to get real with their valuations. Fellaini is a very good player don't get me wrong but why should he cost more than Mata or Cazorla?
 
GlastonSpur said:
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.
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Why does how Manchester United conduct their transfer business concern you so, Glaston?
 
The bid is perfecting normal if we plan to go in with another rather soonish. I love how few people in the media seen anything wrong with the Rooney bids.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Galcning back through this thread, there's a lot of talk about Fellaini's technical ability, where he would fit in with our team etc. But nobody seems to be adressing the real issue... the Hair.

Is a midfielder with insanely large hair the sort of flamboyant, easy-to-spot element that we've been missing with so much short-back-and-sides going on? Would his mental afro open the door for him to achieve instant legendary status? Or does he just look an embarassing dick?
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One of the conditions in his contract should be a decent haircut. This microphone idiocy must stop before we see afro wigs at Old Trafford.
 
The only good thing is that with 16 million the starting point, we're unlikely to go too over the top with follow up bids. A couple of million maybe

Then again we had one bid for Baines and didnt follow that up. So maybe, if its true we have bid for Fellaini, it might be our only bid also
 
GlastonSpur said:
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.
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We should just wait until the end of the window and replace our best player with one of the buying clubs reserves. That's how a really smart Chief Executive does their work.
 
Our transfer approach this summer has been baffling whichever way we look at things.
 
GlastonSpur said:
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.
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Time will tell whether our strategy on this one is inept or not. I certainly disagree that time is our enemy on this one though. If the players have told the club that they want to leave (and given Everton making this bid public I suspect that this is the case) then Everton's need to sell is IMO greater than our need to buy.

As I am of the opinion that our need to strengthen this summer was nowhere near as great as many seem to believe, I don't see an issue with our strategy so far. Top class players are very difficult to sign, and we have tried to get one who would have been a sensation at United. We failed - it happens. I am always of the opinion that we should be getting the right player for the right price, or nobody at all. If all else fails, bring the kids through.
 
#07 said:
Justifiably so.

Its easy to understand why Sir Alex went shopping abroad so much as the years went on. Vidic and Evra together cost about a 3rd as Carroll cost Liverpool, its idiotic.

Navas cost City £17m up front rising to £22m and while I recognise they play in different positions you'd argue that Navas, all in all, is a more distinguished player than Fellaini.

Clubs need to be get taught to get real with their valuations. Fellaini is a very good player don't get me wrong but why should he cost more than Mata or Cazorla?
Click to expand...


That's why I can't understand how the club hasn't been able to identify a midifelder in another league who would likely come with a far smaller price tag. I mean presumably we've been looking for 3 seasons or so. Fellaini is a good player but we're paying extra for someone because of how well they've done in a role we don't need them for. I agree with others he's probably worth £23m to Everton but not to us.
 
The Neviller said:
The bid isn't far off what would universally be considered fair value. And is pretty much on a par with the value I'd put on them. Baines isn't worth much more than £12m, if at all. Nobody wanted Fellaini for £20mil+. I said I don't see what is insulting about being offered a profit. Now, had we bid less than they cost initially, I'd see the "insulting" point. But we didn't.

You're arguing against a point I never made, as usual.
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I don't think that Baines is worth only 12m (I don't think that we need him at all and do not want him here but that's something else). He is one of the two best Everton players and one of the best (of not the best) left back in England. Just for the sake of argument Madrid paid for Coentrao 30m while Liverpool paid for Johnson around 18m and neither of them was better than Baines (though they were younger). I think that Baines is worth more than 15m in today's market. Also, I don't think that there is a chance that they accept anything less than 20m for Fellaini (and rightly so). I expect them to ask for 23-25m for him. Players cost today a lot, especially if they are important for the club and the club who wants to sign them is in need for that type of player (for us a midfielder). All arguments that they get a profit from them (7m) I think are weak because there have passed 5 or more years since they signed these players and while then they were unknown players now they are among the best in the league in their positions.
 
So the rumors that we were waiting for his release clause to expire so we could bid less seem to be true. I can't imagine Everton are going to let us have Fellaini for any less that what his release clause was, and did we just make the exact same bid for Baines as we did earlier this summer? Does Woodward think we get a discount for buying in bulk?
 
GlastonSpur said:
Why do you so often seek to focus on the poster rather than what has been posted?
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Opposition fans are always judged on past form on here. Rightly so too. I would expect the same treatment if I posted on a Chelsea board.
 
gza the genius said:
So the rumors that we were waiting for his release clause to expire so we could bid less seem to be true. I can't imagine Everton are going to let us have Fellaini for any less that what his release clause was, and did we just make the exact same bid for Baines as we did earlier this summer? Does Woodward think we get a discount for buying in bulk?
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:lol:

Nobody really knows what has gone through his head this summer. He's been absolutely terrible so far.
 
GlastonSpur said:
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.
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I find a Tottenham fan criticising another club for leaving things until the last minute hilariously ironic. Also, Fabregas and Fellaini have no relevance to each other, we've always been signing Fellaini regardless of whether we signed Fabregas or not, they're totally different players, and it's been reported all summer that Moyes wants two midfielders.
 
lem8sh said:
That's a silly argument. This is a forum and he's made some really good points there regardless of who he supports.
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Yeah, well obviously Spurs are much better in the transfer market than United, and do better transfer business year on year, which is why we're never able to reach the high levels of performance they achieve.

Oh...

Being lectured on how to conduct transfers by a Spurs fan is fecking laughable. And his points are mostly him having a pop at United, which has been his go-to post this summer. He's spent the whole summer in United transfer threads making wumming digs to draw bites.

Not to worry though, he'll feck off again for a few months around February.
 
#07 said:
Clubs need to be get taught to get real with their valuations. Fellaini is a very good player don't get me wrong but why should he cost more than Mata or Cazorla?
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No they don't. Clubs have the right on their evaluation for how much they are willing to accept in order to sell a player. You can either pay that sum, find an another target or moan because the market has been inflated. The third option doesn't strengthen the club.
 
gza the genius said:
So the rumors that we were waiting for his release clause to expire so we could bid less seem to be true. I can't imagine Everton are going to let us have Fellaini for any less that what his release clause was, and did we just make the exact same bid for Baines as we did earlier this summer? Does Woodward think we get a discount for buying in bulk?
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If the players have told Everton that they want to leave, then bidding the same amount as before is probably a wise strategy. £12m for an unhappy player is a more attractive bid than £12m for a happy one.
 
Ash_G said:
That's why I can't understand how the club hasn't been able to identify a midifelder in another league who would likely come with a far smaller price tag. I mean presumably we've been looking for 3 seasons or so. Fellaini is a good player but we're paying extra for someone because of how well they've done in a role we don't need them for. I agree with others he's probably worth £23m to Everton but not to us.
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I'm equally baffled frankly. I think Spurs, for example, have done good business in centre midfield this summer bringing in players who have the potential to get better but at prices that can be more or less dismissed if they don't go on to be as good as you would want them to be. Why couldn't we do that?
 
Revan said:
No they don't. Clubs have the right on their evaluation for how much they are willing to accept in order to sell a player. You can either pay that sum, find an another target or moan because the market has been inflated. The third option doesn't strengthen the club.
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I would hazard a guess that we could get Diame off of West Ham for less than £20+ million and he would do the centre midfield arguably as well as Fellaini if not better.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Why do you so often seek to focus on the poster rather than what has been posted?
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Well with you, its a paint by numbers post. And as predictable as the sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening. Throw a few digs in about United, label them inept in the transfer market. Accuse them of not acting in a correct manner, hit reply. Rinse and repeat.

Tedious.
 
Spurs have kept buying obviously good prospects. Most of them have come off in recent years and their newest CMs will be no exception. However we seem to be after someone proven over time in the premier league... If only Dembele had stayed at Fulham one more season
 
GlastonSpur said:
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.
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Good post, Glaston. You raise quite a few good points there. However, I trust Moyes and Woodward know what they're doing. Negotiations always have to start somewhere, after all.
 
gza the genius said:
So the rumors that we were waiting for his release clause to expire so we could bid less seem to be true. I can't imagine Everton are going to let us have Fellaini for any less that what his release clause was, and did we just make the exact same bid for Baines as we did earlier this summer? Does Woodward think we get a discount for buying in bulk?
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Buy 1, get 50% off second purchase maybe?
 
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