Fellaini

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It should be simple enough now after Everton statement. Give them 40m for the pair and get them. If Everton hold out for something like 50m or so, ignore and move on.
In purchasing, one generally starts negotiating at lower price because seller inevitably quotes more than the actual price foreseeing negotiations. From buyer point of view, it is about understanding actual market value of what you are buying, understanding seller's evaluation and then using negotiation skills to ensure one doesn't overpay.
 
His points ring true but we all know it's been a disastrous transfer window. It was very smugly written.

In fairness, why shouldn't he feel smug, he doesn't support United so why should he give a feck, it's all good news to him anyway. Look at how we respond to Arsenal on here, all we do is take the piss out of them. The point being it clearly wasn't a wum and shouldn't be discarded as such.
 
Gibsons fee was reportedly a million rising to 2 million based on appearances. There's plenty more I could say...perhaps don't come out with daft statements in future then. Everton don't owe us anything, we just took their manager for nothing, remember that. If they feel the offers are derisory then they are entitled to say so, we said the same when addressing Chelsea's bid for Rooney.
Did we? Perhaps you could link me to the clubs statement on that one? Their manager was out of contract. Remember that.
 
What is there to respond to in your post, other than that its another post slating United by a poster with a history of making wumming comments, and being banned from areas within the forum for doing it. This season you've just decided to do it in the transfer forum.

You're a clever guy, Glaston, who tries to wrap his little digs up in reasonable sounding posts, but the fact you've spent the summer in every United transfer related thread making the same posts with the same digs in them show exactly what you're at. You're looking for bites. Luckily you've chosen a summer where many of our fans have had the head staggers, so you'll get plenty of "Good post Glaston, I agree with that" comments, when the truth is you probably should have just been told to feck off like you would have been any other summer.


errr?
 
It should be simple enough now after Everton statement. Give them 40m for the pair and get them. If Everton hold out for something like 50m or so, ignore and move on.
In purchasing, one generally starts negotiating at lower price because seller inevitably quotes more than the actual price foreseeing negotiations. From buyer point of view, it is about understanding actual market value of what you are buying, understanding seller's evaluation and then using negotiation skills to ensure one doesn't overpay.


£40m would be so excessive imo, there has got to be a better option out there be it one star player or one established and one young player than spending £40m on a left back who isn't needed and a midfielder who really should be a squad option at this level.
 
In fairness, why shouldn't he feel smug, he doesn't support United so why should he give a feck, it's all good news to him anyway. Look at how we respond to Arsenal on here, all we do is take the piss out of them. The point being it clearly wasn't a wum and shouldn't be discarded as such.
And probably would've been were it not from a poster with a history of poor wumming.
 
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.


Good post Glaston, I agree with that
 
You've wasted the whole summer chasing unattainable CM targets. And now, when the season has already started, you turn to Fellaini with a lowball bid that seems purpose-designed to piss off Everton. And worse you come back in for Baines by offering the same amount that was rejected several weeks ago.

Look at the circumstances:

* He's their best player (and you also want to take their 2nd best player).
* Selling him would leave them with not much time to find a replacement.
* Compared to Everton you have huge wealth and plenty of money.
* Everton now know (after all your failed CM signing attempts) that you are desperate to sign a CM.
* Compared to the gamble they took when they signed him, he's now Prem experienced and didn't flop.

Yet you come in with an offer that - taking in account inflation - is less than what they paid for him originally (and taking into account football-fee inflation, your offer is much less than what they paid for him originally). And what's more, Fellaini now knows that at best he's 3rd or 4th target choice for United ... which is not a great incentive if you're now expecting him to kick up a fuss about wanting to leave and thereby force Everton into accepting a low offer.

To call your strategy inept would be generous.

So what now? Are you going to waste more time by incrementally increasing these derisory bid(s) every few days? Or perhaps the plan - as you've done with Baines - is to wait and then come back with an unchanged offer?

Why don't you stop pissing around? If MUFC is now resigned to seeking Fellaini and if you want Baines, then make an offer that is actually attractive to Everton, one that makes it worth their while to sell. Time is running out: you've already missed the advantage of having both players in pre-season, but now with every passing day Everton are only going to get more reluctant to sell and the fee they'll seek will only get bigger.

Sums it up nicely.
 
In fairness, why shouldn't he feel smug, he doesn't support United so why should he give a feck, it's all good news to him anyway. Look at how we respond to Arsenal on here, all we do is take the piss out of them. The point being it clearly wasn't a wum and shouldn't be discarded as such.
Clearly? Ok then, I guess you've decreed it so, so I'll leave it there.
 
I
I guess I'm the only one who sees how transparent he's been this summer.

I'm not sure how much you'd have agreed if he'd have been responding to someone other than me.

Yeah, maybe you are. I'm also not talking about this summer, but the single post I quoted and the related one to it.

Well, considering my post said "I can't believe I'm agreeing with Glaston here", you can safely assume it's not because of that. Maybe I just don't agree with you, as incredible as that might sound?
 
£40m would be so excessive imo, there has got to be a better option out there be it one star player or one established and one young player than spending £40m on a left back who isn't needed and a midfielder who really should be a squad option at this level.

Baines: Will be a fantastic signing no doubt IMO and I don't think Evra has too many years at top level remaining. Baines is 3-4 years younger to Evra and will be a plus from next 3-4 years perspective. Don't just see short term. Buttner is clearly not good enough and lets say Evra leaves next year to Monaco or somewhere, Baines and Fabio is not something excess. Miss out on Baines and if he signs with someone else next year we will suddenly be looking very suspect in that area. As for this season, Fabio can be drafted in systematically. First through cups, and then in league. He can cover for his brother at RB as well.

Fellaini: For me, his record at Everton and for Belgium is pretty impressive and he is only 25. He can definitely be a better player than he was at Everton by playing with better players. Similar happened with Valencia. Except last year, he reached a new level than he could with Wigan.
Fellaini can be a strong force in midfield, is a decent passer, has goal scoring ability and can be great value on set pieces.

I would have started with a combined offer of 34m+add ons and would have been ready to pay upto 40m, valuing Fellaini and Baines at 22 and 18 respectively.
 
Is The Neviller actually Ed Woodward?

Sorry, am I not doing it right?

We're shit at signing players, we do everything wrong, what a bunch of rubbish blind bids we've made, nobody wants to sign for us, we're inept in the transfer market, making fake bids that we hope fail, we just pretend to try and sign players to appease fans, Osman, why didn't we bid for Thiago, why did we bid for Fabregas, I'm so embarrassed, that was insulting, I agree with Glaston.

Better?
 
Do you know what mate, I agree with most of that. At the start of the window we went for Thiago, all looked good at one point until Bayern came in. Then more or less the day after barca sold Thiago, we went hard for Fabregas and said he was our primary target. Why didn't we bid earlier for him I was wondering, but then I thought that surely there would be no way we'd go public with chasing Fabregas, if we hadn't had the go ahead, and then it all comes out that we have been bidding blind for him. To top that saga off we released to the media that Edd was on his way home from Australia to carry out urgent business...we are still wating to find out what that was about too.

Then we have Fellaini, who had a buy out clause for around 23m (I think). And a lot of people thinks that is a fair price for him, yet we wait until that clause has expired and bid 16m for him. I said in this thread earlier that we would do that and got laughed off the thread for it.

So yeah, much of what you have said is pretty much bob on, for a cnut!


Except did we go for Thiago? Thiago said there was no contact from us and United 'in for Fabregas' was doing the rounds in Manchester long before Thiago was mentioned anywhere. You might think Fellaini is worth £23 mill, I know a lot of fans think its too high and so might the club. I don't know, you don't know and nor does the 'all knowing' but usually wrong press pack.

What i find really funny (except for Glaston of course) is the same people who moaned and moaned about us over paying are now moaning and moaning about us under paying. Personally I would be happy if we got Fellaini because he is different to anything we have, other than that I think we are ok with the squad we have as long as we keep Rooney on board.
 
Yeah, maybe you are. I'm also not talking about this summer, but the single post I quoted and the related one to it.

Well, considering my post said "I can't believe I'm agreeing with Glaston here", you can safely assume it's not because of that. Maybe I just don't agree with you, as incredible as that might sound?

It is incredible, and right now I'm incredulous, if I'm honest.
 
Why the emphasis on price? I couldn't give a feck what the Glazers have to pay to get players in personally. It doesn't really matter how we as fans value players, the only relevant issue is whether we are willing to match everton's valuation of the players in question. Problem we have is everyone believes we are desperate for signings, and that perceived desperation encourages potential sellers to try and force us to pay more than we would obviously like to. It's hardly radical, many of us have been predicting that just such a scenario would arise eventually, simply because SAF allowed the midfield situation to remain unaddressed for so long.

I don't think we are going to be able to get anyone on the cheap. I don't recall Everton touting either Baines or Fellaini as being up for sale, therefore we may have to convince them with an adequate bid that forces them to consider selling. We simply cannot expect to land players by offering insufficient amounts. It didn't work for Chelsea with Rooney, so why should we expect anyone else to act differently under similar circumstances than we would act ourselves?

I really don't get the indignation over price. If some fans don't think Fellaini will add anything worthwhile to our squad, then even if he is available for nothing they still should not want him. Yet some suggest he is not worth this amount, but i'd take him for that amount. That makes no sense to me, because in contrast if some fans do rate him and believe he would improve us, then they just want the player bought, the question of a few million here or there is irrelevant.

For me there is a huge difference between making a serious bid, and trying it on with a hopeful attempt to get players for far less than what the respective club values them at. For instance, if Arsenal really want Suarez, then they have to offer an amount that Liverpool will find it difficult to turn down, offering less than that will only result in the bid being rejected. Same applies to Utd and Fabregas. If he is the main target, and the man Moyes has highlighted as someone he feels will take the club forward, then we should be offering an amount that Barcelona will feel compelled to accept, anything less is not a serious bid in my view, and therefore has to be considered unrealistic opportunism. Potential suitors are perfectly within their rights to make any offer they deem appropriate, but the seller has no obligation to accept unless he feels it is too good a deal to turn down. Football is no different to anything else when it comes to buying and selling, all values are completely subjective, and it boils down to how much you really want something which determines how much you are willing to pay.

If we really want the targets we are chasing then what we may value them at is irrelevant, we will simply have to pay what is necessary to acquire them, or look elsewhere.
 
Baines: Will be a fantastic signing no doubt IMO and I don't think Evra has too many years at top level remaining. Baines is 3-4 years younger to Evra and will be a plus from next 3-4 years perspective. Don't just see short term. Buttner is clearly not good enough and lets say Evra leaves next year to Monaco or somewhere, Baines and Fabio is not something excess. Miss out on Baines and if he signs with someone else next year we will suddenly be looking very suspect in that area. As for this season, Fabio can be drafted in systematically. First through cups, and then in league. He can cover for his brother at RB as well.

Fellaini: For me, his record at Everton and for Belgium is pretty impressive and he is only 25. He can definitely be a better player than he was at Everton by playing with better players. Similar happened with Valencia. Except last year, he reached a new level than he could with Wigan.
Fellaini can be a strong force in midfield, is a decent passer, has goal scoring ability and can be great value on set pieces.

I would have started with a combined offer of 34m+add ons and would have beenready to pay upto 40m, valuing Fellaini and Baines at 22 and 18 respectively.


Evra is still here now though and there's no suggestion he's looking to move this season or next. Buttner isn't going to be his replacement but Fabio might be, a full season back at united as Evra's understudy and he could be back where he was a few years ago before injuries. I don't see who is gonna come in for Baines at c£15m. As I said would much rather hold on to Evra, who is also a big presence in the dressing room, see how Fabio progresses and look to see if we can identify a younger leftback. There's no way Baines is worth 18m.

Fellaini has been impressive but he's not been developing as a central midfielder for the last two seasons, so we're paying extra because of his ability as a number ten. I don't doubt Fellaini can up his game but I don't see how his game right now in the role we want him for makes him worth that cash and on the whole whilst I'd take him over no one, I'd much rather us trying to spend c£40m on a top class player than these two.
 
In fairness, why shouldn't he feel smug, he doesn't support United so why should he give a feck, it's all good news to him anyway. Look at how we respond to Arsenal on here, all we do is take the piss out of them. The point being it clearly wasn't a wum and shouldn't be discarded as such.


definitely not a wum, just strangely written imo.
 
Why the emphasis on price? I couldn't give a feck what the Glazers have to pay to get players in personally. It doesn't really matter how we as fans value players, the only relevant issue is whether we are willing to match everton's valuation of the players in question. Problem we have is everyone believes we are desperate for signings, and that perceived desperation encourages potential sellers to try and force us to pay more than we would obviously like to. It's hardly radical, many of us have been predicting that just such a scenario would arise eventually, simply because SAF allowed the midfield situation to remain unaddressed for so long.

I don't think we are going to be able to get anyone on the cheap. I don't recall Everton touting either Baines or Fellaini as being up for sale, therefore we may have to convince them with an adequate bid that forces them to consider selling. We simply cannot expect to land players by offering insufficient amounts. It didn't work for Chelsea with Rooney, so why should we expect anyone else to act differently under similar circumstances than we would act ourselves?

I really don't get the indignation over price. If some fans don't think Fellaini will add anything worthwhile to our squad, then even if he is available for nothing they still should not want him. Yet some suggest he is not worth this amount, but i'd take him for that amount. That makes no sense to me, because in contrast if some fans do rate him and believe he would improve us, then they just want the player bought, the question of a few million here or there is irrelevant.

For me there is a huge difference between making a serious bid, and trying it on with a hopeful attempt to get players for far less than what the respective club values them at. For instance, if Arsenal really want Suarez, then they have to offer an amount that Liverpool will find it difficult to turn down, offering less than that will only result in the bid being rejected. Same applies to Utd and Fabregas. If he is the main target, and the man Moyes has highlighted as someone he feels will take the club forward, then we should be offering an amount that Barcelona will feel compelled to accept, anything less is not a serious bid in my view, and therefore has to be considered unrealistic opportunism. Potential suitors are perfectly within their rights to make any offer they deem appropriate, but the seller has no obligation to accept unless he feels it is too good a deal to turn down. Football is no different to anything else when it comes to buying and selling, all values are completely subjective, and it boils down to how much you really want something which determines how much you are willing to pay.

If we really want the targets we are chasing then what we may value them at is irrelevant, we will simply have to pay what is necessary to acquire them, or look elsewhere.

Can you sum this post up in the sentence or two, mate? I'm interested in what you've got to say but I'm not reading all that bollocks.
 
Except did we go for Thiago? Thiago said there was no contact from us and United 'in for Fabregas' was doing the rounds in Manchester long before Thiago was mentioned anywhere. You might think Fellaini is worth £23 mill, I know a lot of fans think its too high and so might the club. I don't know, you don't know and nor does the 'all knowing' but usually wrong press pack.

What i find really funny (except for Glaston of course) is the same people who moaned and moaned about us over paying are now moaning and moaning about us under paying. Personally I would be happy if we got Fellaini because he is different to anything we have, other than that I think we are ok with the squad we have as long as we keep Rooney on board.


Yeah, truth be told, before the window opened I wanted us to go for Fellaini. Then we are linked with other players and you start to wonder what may be, so if I'm honest I'm not as excited for this to go through as I once was. But that'll soon change when I see him in a United shirt.

Anyway, regarding Thiago, yeah he came out and said we were never in for him. But reports suggest otherwise and I'm sure we asked, or bid for him the year before. I could be wrong though.
 
not sure why so many utd fans are getting bent out of shape over the bid value, firstly because its an opening salvo and clearly open to negotitation, secondly because utd staff have a duty to ensure it gets the best price it can when doing multi-million pound deals and thirdly because i'd suggest that if anyone knows just what everton would consider a fair price for these players its the guy that managed their club for the past 10 years.

Evertons response was predictable if a little stronger in its wording than expected but like all clubs they need to put a brave face on things when selling their players
Everyone knows Everton need the money, Moyes has the inside track on how they work these things and i'd be amazed if the players themselves havent already been primed by him months ago. The only surprise for me is that its happened this late in the window. They'll be some more posturing for a few days but i expect it to go through now its all out in the open
 
Tbh it wasn't really a good post by Glaston.
He just pointed out what we all saw and heard in this transfer market anyway. So it was pretty much only a summary of what has happened. There's not much to not agree with in his post as much is pretty much fact. There's just no way to deny that the way we acted so far in the transfer market was pretty strange to say the least.

And I'm sure he enjoys it. Well why not. For me there was not much more funny than watching the guy on Arsenal-TV, or what it was called, going completely nuts.
Let's see what he will be like when Bale eventually fecks off.
Also we just won 4-1 against a good Swansea side with our "shit" midfield, so hey, it could be much worse.
 
I would hazard a guess that we could get Diame off of West Ham for less than £20+ million and he would do the centre midfield arguably as well as Fellaini if not better.

We can get him but he's not half the player Fellaini is.
 
Anyway, regarding Thiago, yeah he came out and said we were never in for him. But reports suggest otherwise and I'm sure we asked, or bid for him the year before. I could be wrong though.

As usual, I'd be inclined to trust the player's actual words over 'reports'.
 
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