FC Bayern 17/18 discussion

Ecstatic said:
What do you think of Tolisso? Is Coman in a good shape?
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Not sure how Ancelotti intends to use Tolisso. He looks more suited to a three-man midfield, but Carlo has used 4-2-3-1 in pre-season so far. Having said that, the pre-season results have not been encouraging, so Bayern might return to 4-3-3.

Coman is in good shape but Ribery looks fit and raring to go as well. With James arriving as well, he'll have to fight for his place. Wingers need a run of games imo, so I hope he gets one in the Hinrunde.
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Not sure how Ancelotti intends to use Tolisso. He looks more suited to a three-man midfield, but Carlo has used 4-2-3-1 in pre-season so far. Having said that, the pre-season results have not been encouraging, so Bayern might return to 4-3-3.

Coman is in good shape but Ribery looks fit and raring to go as well. With James arriving as well, he'll have to fight for his place. Wingers need a run of games imo, so I hope he gets one in the Hinrunde.
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Return? 4-2-3-1 is our system, if anything, 4-3-3 would be something new.....
 
SirMattBugsby said:
I genuinely hope you are exaggerating here, unless your definition of 'wow' is "Wow, that was awful." Even a 30-something Ribéry will walk into our first eleven.
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Maybe he would because we don't have wingers but don't think he is a player I would be desperate for, Bayern are obviously a good team but just not the same powerhouse as before. A lot of their recent signings have failed, they paid good money for Gotze,Costa,Coman,Sanches etc and none of them managed to be as good as Bayern expected
 
Rummenige said only Ulreich and Javi Martinez are in-form. WTF has happened to Bayern this summer?
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
Rummenige said only Ulreich and Javi Martinez are in-form. WTF has happened to Bayern this summer?
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Dunno. It's only summer preparation though, I really have stopped to read anything into that. For the last 15 years I have followed that, it rarely produced meaningful insight. Klinsmanns summer was really good, for example....
 
It has to be said, it was a shocking series of test games that Bayern played. But the season hasn't started, everyone starts at 0 and maybe when they have to be focused, they're at their best again. We'll see.
 
fcbforever said:
Dunno. It's only summer preparation though, I really have stopped to read anything into that. For the last 15 years I have followed that, it rarely produced meaningful insight. Klinsmanns summer was really good, for example....
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That's for sure, but it is still worrying.
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
That's for sure, but it is still worrying.
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Well, we had an equally bad preseason in Ancelotti's final season with us. Started the season slow, then put together a 3 months spell where we looked untouchable. And then injuries and fatigue ruined the second half of the season
 
They don't give a shit about friendlies at all, do they?
I think they've lost almost every preseason games. Jeez, even if you don't take friendlies seriously, surely you can't be losing by a 2 to 3 goal margin with that squad. Did they play their reserve/youth team or what? How can they possibly lose like this?
 
MullerUtd said:
They don't give a shit about friendlies at all, do they?
I think they've lost almost every preseason games. Jeez, even if you don't take friendlies seriously, surely you can't be losing by a 2 to 3 goal margin with that squad. Did they play their reserve/youth team or what? How can they possibly lose like this?
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That was the reserve team. Kimmich was captain and I didn't even recognize the names of our at least 4 players :D

Edit: Früchtl - Kimmich, Süle (77. Awoudja), Mai, Friedl - Rudy (77. Fein), Sanches - Coman (64. Ribery), Vidal (64. Tolisso), Tilmann - Wintzheimer (64. Crnicki)
 
fcbforever said:
Not really, no. Thiago as a 10, Vidal and Alonso behind him.
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Yeah, whatever. Thiago's starting position was deeper than a ten and more on the left as I recall it. Only game I remember him playing as a pure ten was the 2nd game against Leipzig. Even then the midfielders behind him weren't Alonso and Vidal.

Moreover if you guys were playing 4-2-3-1, Müller would have played central. He didn't. That and the fact that Bayern's midfield appeared disjointed from attack at times last season (most moves drifting out to the wings, Lewy outnumbered in the box) gave me the impression more of a 4-3-3.

I guess it's a matter of perception, and 4-3-3 can easily convert to a 4-2-3-1 and vice-versa even during the same move. But I found the preseason system closer to the latter. Oh, and Thiago was playing with Tolisso behind Müller.
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Yeah, whatever. Thiago's starting position was deeper than a ten and more on the left as I recall it. Only game I remember him playing as a pure ten was the 2nd game against Leipzig. Even then the midfielders behind him weren't Alonso and Vidal.

Moreover if you guys were playing 4-2-3-1, Müller would have played central. He didn't. That and the fact that Bayern's midfield appeared disjointed from attack at times last season (most moves drifting out to the wings, Lewy outnumbered in the box) gave me the impression more of a 4-3-3.

I guess it's a matter of perception, and 4-3-3 can easily convert to a 4-2-3-1 and vice-versa even during the same move. But I found the preseason system closer to the latter. Oh, and Thiago was playing with Tolisso behind Müller.
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Who has playing behind him then? Benko? A midfielder trapped in another reality than mine which I never saw? Of course that was our midfield last season!
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
What has happened to Muller? I don't recognize him anymore.
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He lost his mojo last season(already during the EC), but hopefully he'll find it again soon. He needs proper competition. He shouldn't expect to play when he doesn't perform. The problem was last season, that the alternatives weren't any better. Thiago playing as 10/ 4-3-3 didn't work.
Now James should compete with him. Hopefully that pushes both two their limits.
 
PedroMendez said:
He lost his mojo last season(already during the EC), but hopefully he'll find it again soon. He needs proper competition. He shouldn't expect to play when he doesn't perform. The problem was last season, that the alternatives weren't any better. Thiago playing as 10/ 4-3-3 didn't work.
Now James should compete with him. Hopefully that pushes both two their limits.
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True that. He has also been played out of position, imo. Should play just behind the lone striker.
 
Reschke is leaving Bayern and going to Stuttgart. What the ...????
 
An hour or so after Stuttgart fans broke into rage after they fired Jan Schindelmeiser.

Crazy stuff. Also days after Bayern hired Hasan Salihamidzic as their new "sporting director" ... I first thought he wouldn't have a lot of responsibilities (since he also lacks any experience), but then the Kicker reported that he'd actually be superior to Reschke. Wouldn't be surprised if Reschke wasn't all too happy about this.
 
From Pep/Sammer/Reschke to Hoeneß/Brazzo/Sagnol (not identical position, I know). 90s here we come again.
 
Are Bayern in good financial shape? I always expect them to dominate the transfer market like the other giant clubs, but they do their business quickly and discreetly, solid, without moving any mountains. This summer seems the same, when I was sure they'd be all over Alexis Sanchez.

Strange. Could anyone enlighten me? They are a European powerhouse, who only really seem to be in for the top talent when they are playing in the Bundesliga. Not that it's harmed them particularly, but just surprising they don't swagger in market like Madrid.
 
Acrobat7 said:
From Pep/Sammer/Reschke to Hoeneß/Brazzo/Sagnol (not identical position, I know). 90s here we come again.
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I'm really sad to see Reschke go, he seemed like a perfect guy for Bayern.

The only really good news since the end of last season about the long term structure of Bayern has been the completion of the new youth team center and 1860 leaving the Allianz Arena.

I can't wait for the return of Lahm.
Hoeneß seems to be going crazy with power and just installing yes-men, except for Killer-Kalle.
 
iamjacks said:
Are Bayern in good financial shape? I always expect them to dominate the transfer market like the other giant clubs, but they do their business quickly and discreetly, solid, without moving any mountains. This summer seems the same, when I was sure they'd be all over Alexis Sanchez.

Strange. Could anyone enlighten me? They are a European powerhouse, who only really seem to be in for the top talent when they are playing in the Bundesliga. Not that it's harmed them particularly, but just surprising they don't swagger in market like Madrid.
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Bayern have always operated a level below Barca, Real and the richest PL clubs when it comes to transfer spendings and wages. Mainly out of necessity, as they don't generate remotely as much income from TV deals as their international rivals.

They have only very rarely ventured close to the spendings common among the richest clubs. Past examples I can recall are Luca Toni (in terms of wages) and Javi Martinez (in terms of transfer fee). These deals were still far from international record sums, but they were pretty big for Bayern. Nowadays, star players like Lewandowski and Müller probably earn sums that are close to the international elite, but I'm pretty sure they could still earn more elsewhere. Alexis Sanchez' wage demands were way too high for Bayern.

So Bayern's transfers are usually a mix of skimming the German market, mid-priced international golden opportunity deals (like Robben, Boateng, Thiago, James), and a few relatively expensive international transfers (like Martinez, Benatia, Costa). The transfers of Sanches and Tolisso may indicate an additional future policy - buying (expensive) young international players early to develop them -, but they are still no Mbappes.
 
fcbforever said:
Return? 4-2-3-1 is our system, if anything, 4-3-3 would be something new.....
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fcbforever said:
Not really, no. Thiago as a 10, Vidal and Alonso behind him.
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fcbforever said:
Who has playing behind him then? Benko? A midfielder trapped in another reality than mine which I never saw? Of course that was our midfield last season!
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It's impressive how you can be so casually clueless and yet so obnoxiously pedantic at the same time. You're not the only person who watches Bayern's games, you know, and certainly not the smartest one. Try to give some credit to what others write. @SirMattBugsby has been pretty accurate with all his observations.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
It's impressive how you can be so casually clueless and yet so obnoxiously pedantic at the same time. You're not the only person who watches Bayern's games, you know, and certainly not the smartest one. Try to give some credit to what others write. @SirMattBugsby has been pretty accurate with all his observations.
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Cute. I guess you really wanted to say that after...2 weeks? Still, neither him nor you could point out what is wrong about my posts.

CookieMonster said:
I'm really sad to see Reschke go, he seemed like a perfect guy for Bayern.

The only really good news since the end of last season about the long term structure of Bayern has been the completion of the new youth team center and 1860 leaving the Allianz Arena.

I can't wait for the return of Lahm.
Hoeneß seems to be going crazy with power and just installing yes-men, except for Killer-Kalle.
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For all the praise, I never spotted any significant impact of Reschke. If anything, our dealings on the transfer market got worse since he joing.
 
fcbforever said:
Cute. I guess you really wanted to say that after...2 weeks? Still, neither him nor you could point out what is wrong about my posts.
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I've been on holiday for 2 weeks so that's why I read up on this thread now. Luckily I also missed most of our preseason matches. What's your take on the Brazzo-Reschke saga?
 
fcbforever said:
Cute. I guess you really wanted to say that after...2 weeks? Still, neither him nor you could point out what is wrong about my posts.
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Forget it @Cristiano Lell , not worth bothering. I didn't even understand that Benko/alternate reality post :wenger:.

iamjacks said:
Are Bayern in good financial shape? I always expect them to dominate the transfer market like the other giant clubs, but they do their business quickly and discreetly, solid, without moving any mountains. This summer seems the same, when I was sure they'd be all over Alexis Sanchez.

Strange. Could anyone enlighten me? They are a European powerhouse, who only really seem to be in for the top talent when they are playing in the Bundesliga. Not that it's harmed them particularly, but just surprising they don't swagger in market like Madrid.
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This is one of the reasons I like Bayern. You don't always need swagger in the market to be a quality team. Spurs in the PL have shown that as well.

They are sensible in the market, don't get caught up in the hype and resulting inflation and focus on the profile of player rather than fancy names. As a result they paid their stadium debt fifteen years in advance, kept ticket prices feasible for fans and still have a team at par with Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Now, with the market going berserk, they're getting ready to bank on the improved youth academy. Just a very well-run club.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
I've been on holiday for 2 weeks so that's why I read up on this thread now. Luckily I also missed most of our preseason matches. What's your take on the Brazzo-Reschke saga?
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Brazzo is obviously a stopgap solution. As for Reschke, his impact was never felt, the transfer attributed to him pretty much all were a failure. For his alledegly amazing network in German football, the results in youth development and acquisition were pretty mediocre.

SirMattBugsby said:
Forget it @Cristiano Lell , not worth bothering. I didn't even understand that Benko/alternate reality post :wenger:.



This is one of the reasons I like Bayern. You don't always need swagger in the market to be a quality team. Spurs in the PL have shown that as well.

They are sensible in the market, don't get caught up in the hype and resulting inflation and focus on the profile of player rather than fancy names. As a result they paid their stadium debt fifteen years in advance, kept ticket prices feasible for fans and still have a team at par with Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Now, with the market going berserk, they're getting ready to bank on the improved youth academy. Just a very well-run club.
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You didn't? Obviously not. Apparently, according to you, our midfield last year wasn't Thiago - Vidal - Alonso. I just asked who was in our midfield then.
 
They are going to have to suit up and start spending money in the market in order to maintain their really high standards or they'll gradually fall back in the pack of underachieving big clubs(mainly prem giants). Their past generation had a lot of key players that were from their academy. Now they don't seem to be producing a great generation of home grown players. They tried to replace Robben and Ribery(Costa, Coman, Shaqiri) but have so far failed. Now they had to replace Alonso and Tolliso is obviously not the answer. In recent years they've signed Lewa, Thiago, Hummels all who are quality players but the rest of the signings aren't going to do anything substantial.
 
fcbforever said:
You didn't? Obviously not. Apparently, according to you, our midfield last year wasn't Thiago - Vidal - Alonso. I just asked who was in our midfield then.
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What he said was that the only game he remembers Thiago playing a veritable no 10 position, as opposed to playing the most advanced midfielder in a 4-3-3, was the Leipzig Rückrunde game and in that game the double pivot wasn't Vidal-Alonso. And he was right - Kimmich-Alonso played that game.
About when Thiago played as a 10 or as part of a three man midfield, that's obviously debatable. But I surely would agree that the prefered overall shape last season should be considered as a 4-3-3, and @SirMattBugsby gave a number of intelligible reasons why that is.
 
RooneyLegend said:
They are going to have to suit up and start spending money in the market in order to maintain their really high standards or they'll gradually fall back in the pack of underachieving big clubs(mainly prem giants). Their past generation had a lot of key players that were from their academy. Now they don't seem to be producing a great generation of home grown players. They tried to replace Robben and Ribery(Costa, Coman, Shaqiri) but have so far failed. Now they had to replace Alonso and Tolliso is obviously not the answer. In recent years they've signed Lewa, Thiago, Hummels all who are quality players but the rest of the signings aren't going to do anything substantial.
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Jury is still out on Tollisso, who is 22. Also, Alonso finally being retired is probably a good thing. He slowed us down massively in the big games and was a liability in general.
 
fcbforever said:
Jury is still out on Tollisso, who is 22. Also, Alonso finally being retired is probably a good thing. He slowed us down massively in the big games and was a liability in general.
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True but replacing him adequately is what would have made it a god thing.
 
iamjacks said:
Are Bayern in good financial shape? I always expect them to dominate the transfer market like the other giant clubs, but they do their business quickly and discreetly, solid, without moving any mountains. This summer seems the same, when I was sure they'd be all over Alexis Sanchez.

Strange. Could anyone enlighten me? They are a European powerhouse, who only really seem to be in for the top talent when they are playing in the Bundesliga. Not that it's harmed them particularly, but just surprising they don't swagger in market like Madrid.
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When "swagger in the market" means throwing around three digit sums of millions of Euros, Bayern doesn't join in. That kind of money is ridiculous. And as Bavarians, Bayern are notoriously conservative about things like that. Also, Bayern may have the money on the bank, but they don't have it because they get frequent money injections from the Middle East or Russia. It's all accumulated within the past few decades. Squandering that money for little gains is what forces other clubs to lose sovereignity to outsiders. Bayern would be done "bossing" on the transfer market after three years and couldn't keep up anymore.

Also, personally speaking, I'm still waiting for this bubble to burst. One of these days, one of those big spender clubs is going to go bust in a major fashion. It won't be pretty, but I'll sit here with a bag of popcorn enjoying the show.
 
Lagger said:
When "swagger in the market" means throwing around three digit sums of millions of Euros, Bayern doesn't join in. That kind of money is ridiculous. And as Bavarians, Bayern are notoriously conservative about things like that. Also, Bayern may have the money on the bank, but they don't have it because they get frequent money injections from the Middle East or Russia. It's all accumulated within the past few decades. Squandering that money for little gains is what forces other clubs to lose sovereignity to outsiders. Bayern would be done "bossing" on the transfer market after three years and couldn't keep up anymore.

Also, personally speaking, I'm still waiting for this bubble to burst. One of these days, one of those big spender clubs is going to go bust in a major fashion. It won't be pretty, but I'll sit here with a bag of popcorn enjoying the show.
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I tend to disagree. Bayern *will* eventually join the race, if it will be necessary to maintain the current status, being one of the big 5. Has been done in the past when Ribery and Toni were hired.

At the moment, Bayern is a big club thriving to become even bigger (see: asian adventure etc.).
Already they do have backers, just they aren't sheiks and oligarchs, but global industry players: Adidas, Audi, Allianz. Each owns 8-point-something percent of the AG.
In 2-3 years, the club will be valued 1.5Mia/Bio € - so selling another 10-15% either to the existing partners or a new one would finance a Neymar-like transfer, even in compliance with current FF rules - and on an arguably more solid basis than any gulf-based benefactor could provide. The current business model does simply not allow them to fall into a state where they are no more attractive to those kind of partners.
 
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Bayern will be fine. There's always German talent available for them and they are good at finding value in the market.
 
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