The squad is not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. Many players are underperforming but the team also has some serious tactical issues, as a whole. The current manager has to take responsibility for both, not the previous one.
FC Bayern 17/18 discussion
- Thread starter schwalbe
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Yep. The squad is alright. Not as good as it used to be around 2012, but still very good. This squad should perform much better.
you were speaking about style of playing. Keep moving the goalposts. Also a ridiculous argument by its own, I mean, winning a treble is fecking hard and has only happened a handful of times in history. Weird thing to demean Pep
Never got the ott Pep hate. A sense of entitlement after winning everything under Heynckes. Bayern under Pep was pretty good imo and a style of football which was methodical and on their day as good as any. You can’t always win and even while going out they were a bit unlucky at times. Far cry from tonight.
What progress do you make on a treble though?
By this logic, Pep's Barcelona didn't make progress from 2008-2009 and I doubt many would agree with that.
I read it on here too many times. It's a fecking myth that Bayern were better under Heynckes than under Pep.
People forget that Heynckes did not win anything in his first season. Nothing.
Pep never managed to do that. Of course what followed was the treble, but that also involved a lot of luck. For example facing the worst Barcelona team in years, with an injured Messi and a manager on the death bed.
I am not saying that Heynckes was bad. He was very good. But not as flawless as people make him out to be. In turn, what Pep achieved in the Bundesliga was unprecedented. His consistency in the league was indeed flawless.
People forget that Heynckes did not win anything in his first season. Nothing.
Pep never managed to do that. Of course what followed was the treble, but that also involved a lot of luck. For example facing the worst Barcelona team in years, with an injured Messi and a manager on the death bed.
I am not saying that Heynckes was bad. He was very good. But not as flawless as people make him out to be. In turn, what Pep achieved in the Bundesliga was unprecedented. His consistency in the league was indeed flawless.
I hope Tuchel takes over before christmas, give Nagelsmann some more seasons at TSG to gain some experience. Don't think he would turn is into a contender but at least there will be a plan.
Bayern need replacement for ribery. Was surprised to see they did not try for alexis.
The luck part of winning the treble could also be applied to the season before, especially to the champions league final. Pep should have reached the final in his last season though, but Lewandowski and Müller let him down.
I wasn't speaking exclusively about counter attack. I said they had a brilliantly effective way of playing before Pep joined. Whether that was adapting to their opponents or overpowering them. As I said, from the outside looking in, Bayern became very vulnerable in Europe which was displayed clearly and the the vibe coming from there isn't all positive. I'm just not convinced hiring Pep was the best decision the club has ever made.
I know. Been saying this for three years. The hate for Pep, not only amongst Bayernfans or in Germany, but throughout the whole football world is grotesque.
The difference is that Real has young top drawer talent in Isco and Asensio. Bayern needs to steal Pusilic and a few other Bundesliga players to build the squad.
they're the same kind of people who think Mourinho was a failure in Madrid despite making them competitive again and breaking the league points record. Lots of spoiled people nowadays who ignore context and only look at the results. If you don't win a treble every single year you're trash
Yes, had a fantastic seat in the stadium. Changed my perception a bit about him, he is phenomenal, better than i thought. He is untouchable on the field, his positioning is unreal and so pressure resistant. Same for Modric, only that he is better with dribbling through the midfield and a bit more livelier on the ball. Also Kroos corners were fantastic, great bend and technique. They compliment each other perfectly, reminds me a bit of Scholes and Keane for us.
Progress to me would be winning the CL before he left, he was surely hired for that purpose. Or do you disagree with that? No team can win the treble every season I'm not arguing for that but from what I can see he achieved relatively little. Most managers could have won the league titles they got their hands on during those years.
Well no that's just not true at all, but you carry on believing that if you must.
Well let's see.
Heynckes didn't have the luxury of buying Dortmunds best two players and Dortmund were a real force when he took over. When Pep took over Klopps effectiveness wore off and they lost too many players.
Yeah Pep dominated the league. But it helped that he bought two of Dortmunds best players.
It's hard to win the CL. They were a bit unlucky vs Atletico imo.
A lot of players missing vs a peak MSN Barcelona. He did fail vs Real though.
They did make the semi-finals 3 straight years.
But I don't think Pep achieved very little. He completely dominated the Bundesliga. Whatever you think of the quality of the league, it's not easy to win league titles with ease 3 straight years.
Hard to draw some conclusions.
The 1st goal very early (2nd minute) has changed everything
The 1st goal very early (2nd minute) has changed everything
I thought PSG showed some very interesting tactical switch, as in letting Bayern have most of the ball and patiently wait for opportunities. This is the first game they've done it in this season. It required discipline from Neymar and Kylian and they both provided it.
They'd still destroy Arsenal.
Isn't this more about German club football in decline rather than just Bayern. All German clubs seem to be struggling in Europe this season, certainly against the other top leagues.
I'm not sure it was a strategy
1. PSG takes the lead very quickly: PSG tries to preserve the victory and Bayern has to take more risks
2. Bayern is great in possession
3. We have quick forwards
How do you Bayern fans rate Coman ? I'm going to be honest, I watch Bayern as often as possible but not as often as United and Coman has always been a mystery to me, a bit of a limited player, who just runs very fast. Maybe I'm harsh and clueless so I'm interested in reading how fans who watch him very often see him.
Shows glimpses of brilliance and great ball control from time to time but all in all a lot of fart and almost no shit. There's been almost no end product to speak of recently. Pales in comparison to his young winger compatriots.
It's always the same with Bayern. They get into a run where they're rightfully winning the league every year as they should and competing in the Champions League as naturally expected. The board then gets complacent and believes they can continue to do so on the cheap and the team continually deteriorates until they are struggling.
Then another team comes along and "surprises" them by winning a few domestic trophies (when I say surprises I mean most people can see it coming a mile off) and the board then put their hands in their pockets.
I still think they are not bad enough to fail to walk the Bundesliga, so I expect a continued downward trajectory for another 18 months until they are "surprised" by Leipzig or Dortmund.
Upon which time the board will pull their finger out, spend some proper cash and return to walking the league and competing until the next complacent phase.
Then another team comes along and "surprises" them by winning a few domestic trophies (when I say surprises I mean most people can see it coming a mile off) and the board then put their hands in their pockets.
I still think they are not bad enough to fail to walk the Bundesliga, so I expect a continued downward trajectory for another 18 months until they are "surprised" by Leipzig or Dortmund.
Upon which time the board will pull their finger out, spend some proper cash and return to walking the league and competing until the next complacent phase.
Coman lacks the output. He is fantastic until he gets close to the box. His pace is insane and he is brilliant in one on ones. He'll be fine. Just needs time to improve the last pass or his shooting.
The other german teams that usually play internationally declined incredibly. The teams that play in europe this year shouldn't be there, so i don't think they declined much, they just never really were on that level. Schalke, Wolfsburg, Gladbach and Leverkusen just turned into shit.
Has there been a significant improvement in his game since his arrival ? Obviously injuries here and there haven't helped.
Ideally he should've won the CL at some point, but it's not an easy competition to win. Plenty of managers go ages without one; Fergie took until 1999 to win his first and 2008 to get his next.
Naturally Bayern should be dominating German football due to the fact that they have superior resources to those below them, but their complete dominance has only been relatively recent, and Pep's years at the club have played a big part in that. When he went there it'd just been a year or so since Dortmund had won it back-to-back.
He was steadily improving under Pep, but struggled throughout Carlo's first season. Mostly due to injuries and and tactics. Difficult to say.
He looks less composed and is less efficient compared to 18 months ago. He's playing better than last year, but the team has only played one good match all year so it's not that easy to tell, really.
Part of it is the likes of Gladbach, Wolfsburg, Schalke and Leverkusen collapsing almost simutaneously (though I think the latter could rebound quickly) and the other half is that the teams that qualified are in transitional periods. Bayern are in the middle of transitioning from their golden generation towards a new one, with Ancelotti apparently being a mismatch on the bench. Dortmund hired a new coach without CL experience and miss a couple of important players from last season (Dembele gone, Reus, Guerreiro, Weigl, Bartra injured or very recently returning). Leipzig are playing their first CL season and it shows. These three we can expect to improve.
Hoffenheim are in the same boat as Leipzig, but since they lack financial muscle I don't expect them to be able to compete in the CL anytime soon.
The hate for Guardiola is embarassing. Many were calling for Heyncke's' head after the 11/12 season. He delivered one legendary season and deserves all the credit for it, but channeling the humiliations of the previous years and the hunger that came from it into one great season once and conserving that level for years are two very different tasks.
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Coman played very well the last two games before the PSG one. Well enough for Carlo to bench him in a game where he also used neither Ribéry and Robben.
But yes, his final ball is a huge worry, and without significant improvement of his end product he cannot be considered a top player.
Pretty sure Bayern were coming off the treble?
Ehm in Heynckes first season Dortmund was just amazingly good. They have proven it the next season when they (also) reached the CL-Final. But still Heynckes was good enough in his first season to make a 2nd place triple. Not to mention how unlucky we were not to win the CL against that pathetic Chelsea side.
Guardiolas team was more consistent than Heynckes team, but it was better in those topgames. But i don't even give the whole credit to Heynckes for that, i even think he's a bit overrated for his archievments. He was lucky to have most of Bayerns players in their prime, build by Van Gaal. Guardiola on the other hand changed too much for my liking. The team was close to beeing a perfect machine before he took over. And so it appears to me that Guardiola kinda wasted our prime. That Bayern side is one of the best teams in history in my opinion and should have won more than just 1 CL.
I personally can't see him beeing a world class winger at all. He's fast and all, but as you say, he seems limited in other areas. But he's so young, everything is still possible for his development.
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He was. But their 2012/13 league triumph was their first since 2010. The team Guardiola took over was incredible but they hadn't been completely dominating German football for years prior to that. Meaning Guardiola managing to maintain their consistency was worthy of commendation, even if he should've done more in Europe.
Question to Robben from Sportbild if all of you are still behind the coach?
Robben: That question I do not want to answer...
....tells everything...
Robben: That question I do not want to answer...
....tells everything...