Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

[Theon]

And I gave you exactly what sort of grief? You just sat back and let others do the talking for you. Your main posts are actually rejecting feedback, and valid one at that.

I was saying that both you and Pol have very good teams, so it was a tough draw. I'm not talking about grief, it was a compliment on your team. You are very defensive - not everything is an insult antohan.

Erm not really, I responded to all your points. I thought you had one piece of valid criticism which was that Da Guia might struggle pushing up and pressing high which I took on board by bringing in Figueroa - I wouldn't have done that otherwise.

I don't agree with the other criticisms, Eusebio vs Müller etc

 

[Annahnomoss]

@antohan @Polaroid are you available to start the match at 11:00-12:00 UK time tomorrow(Tuesday)? Do we send you the write-ups or do we post them ourselves?

 

[antohan]

@antohan @Polaroid are you available to start the match at 11:00-12:00 UK time tomorrow(thursday)? Do we send you the write-ups or do we post them ourselves?

Today? I'm available any time from now (came back early from the seaside, pissing with rain ). Is that what you all agreed? I thought you had been discussing Tuesday.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Today? I'm available any time from now (came back early from the seaside, pissing with rain ). Is that what you all agreed? I thought you had been discussing Tuesday.

Sorry Tuesday*(tomorrow) at noon I mean! 11-12 UK time as I am not sure Balu meant his german noon or the UK noon. I'd prefer the German one but he will confirm later.

 

[antohan]

I was saying that both you and Pol have very good teams, so it was a tough draw. I'm not talking about grief, it was a compliment on your team. You are very defensive - not everything is an insult antohan.

Erm not really, I responded to all your points. I thought you had one piece of valid criticism which was that Da Guia might struggle pushing up and pressing high which I took on board by bringing in Figueroa - I wouldn't have done that otherwise.

I don't agree with the other criticisms, Eusebio vs Müller etc

I'm the defensive one?

You spent the entire runup to the game saying I would be dissing your players and that I lacked any awareness of myself. Yet I didn't diss your players at all so you had to make up shit to create controversy like me playing one defender, two wingbacks, saying I claimed your frontmen were slow (still waiting for you to quote me on that).

Every one of your posts was absolute crap (NMs one on overnegineering took all the awards though). I made my best to make it about the football and appreciating the Magyars, I was gone anyway, always knew it, but when I came back to see the remainder of the thread yesterday all I saw was you posting shite again.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Must agree that the thread derailed completely.

 

[Gio]

Every one of your posts was absolute crap (NMs one on overnegineering took all the awards though). I made my best to make it about the football and appreciating the Magyars, I was gone anyway, always knew it, but when I came back to see the remainder of the thread yesterday all I saw was you posting shite again.

 

[Gio]

In the absence of any legitimate right-back Pol, I'm guessing you'll go 2-3-5:

Boniek-Rivaldo-Careca-Eusebio-Garrincha
--------------Maradona----------------
----------Breitner---Zito---------------
----------Maldini---Moore--------------
----------------Maspoli----------------​

 

[antohan]

Carry on embarrassing yourself

Because I said you were being stubborn and thick about the one defender thing. Everyone could see I had more than one defender except you.

Aye, well you're wrong once again but that doesn't seem to stop you in these drafts.. So carry on.

Apparently someone can be wrong about which Beckenbauer version he loves. I love Beckenbauer '66, not sure what exactly is wrong about that numpty. Doubt I'm the only one.

What are you talking about? The last thing this side needs is another forward dropping deep when it has Zico and Baggio.

Eusebio doesn't fit as well as Muller, not one bit. Romario has more pace but he's an inferior Muller generally and in a World Cup draft not on the same level - well, he just isn't anyway.

You had feck all pace, still don't. Criminal. When I said you could do with a Romario I also meant instead of Baggio. Just like you could do with Ronaldo instead of Baggio here. I still don't get what the score is with him and Zico in the same side.

Besides being the same formation? And besides having a similar staggered front three, with a roaming attacking midfielder, withdrawn striker and poacher up front? Aye, nothing alike

No one is saying its a spitting image, but there are clear similarities between the two sides. You seem to have convinced yourself you have the exact replica of 1950's Hungary because you've stuck a few Magyars in your side.

A much better one than your Brazil 02, absolutely, and on course to being an improved replica had I survived to get Krol and Djalma/Cruyff. Childish anyhow as it was 15-5 and clearly I was giving you feedback rather than engaging in the sort of bullshit you seemed to be up for.

Let's go through your "Brazil 02":

• Muller is nothing like Ronaldo.
• Baggio and Zico are nothing like Rivaldo and Ronaldinho, the beauty of those two was they operated across the frontline, Rivaldo was the senior one and his positioning determined Ronaldinho's. Your two? Both prefer to play centrally, are less adept out wide and follow no clear seniority.
• Andrade is no Cafú
• You had Scirea as a sweeper-libero, while Edmilson was a midfield anchor who fell back into a three when the wingbacks bombed forward
• You couldn't defend high up, which Brazil 02 could
• Your two midfielders are nothing like Gilberto-Kleberson. You also seemed outraged at Pol for pointing out it may be anything but a strength. Clearly better players, but every side needs water-carriers, players who know their place and role in the team is to do dirty work for others. Haan, for example, does that in Balu's team. Silva and Kleberson knew it was all about Ro-Ri-Ro and getting the ball to them, no more, no less. Just like Djalma knew all he had to do was get the ball to Garrincha. No one has the first clue how your side actually plays because it isn't clear at all where the emphasis actually is and whether players will "play ball" with it.

So yes, indeed, the only ressemblance is Carlos.

No idea why you keep making comments like this, I haven't gone for a 4-2-3-1 at all and what I've gone for is barely ever seen in these drafts. You know I try and win with a weird formation and in this draft have played a 4-2-2-2 and a 3-5-2.. You can hardly call those the proven, current formations.

A 3-5-2 has never won one of these, in fact its never even gotten to a semi-final. So you are really moaning over nothing here.

Who said I was talking about you, dimwit? It was a general comment on drafts.

 

[antohan]

Sorry Tuesday*(tomorrow) at noon I mean! 11-12 UK time as I am not sure Balu meant his german noon or the UK noon. I'd prefer the German one but he will confirm later.

Yes, I will be around to start it then. No probs.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Yes, I will be around to start it then. No probs.

Great mate!

 

[Theon]

Because I said you were being stubborn and thick about the one defender thing.

No, because you acted then like you are now - like an absolute child because you lost the game.

You're still embarrassing yourself. Seeing as you like advise so much I'l give you some - stop acting so petty because you lost an online draft and try and act your age.

 

[antohan]

Ah Theon... Hopeless. Tell me where exactly I'm wrong on your side looking nothing like Brazil 02. It's an opinion, a valid one, one which has several points you could and should have considered.

Nope, I was just being childish.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I think all this "trying to emulate a side half-asses" is a bit pointless. WC sides are built around the unfortunate truth that they don't have great players for each position so they have to build around the "stars".

Brazil of '02 is not really an amazing tactic per se, it was just the fact that the 5 best players were Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cafu, R.Carlos so they wanted to get them involved as much as possible.

The tactical reasoning behind that side was "How do we make sure these 5 have as much impact and the other 6 as little impact as possible?".

Nothing against your team Theon, I don't think you at all play like that Brazil side though. You have a much much better team in every way and comparing yourself to the '02 side would be negative(not sure you have even done it though).

Does anybody agree? The only teams who even resemble a real side was Balu in the first round where he actually used a high-line and an offside trap which Total Football relies on.

Also Anto in the last round was close enough for me to label it as a great emulation/homage to a real team in history.

Is this due to Anto/Balu being very vocal about their intentions or are all drafts full of "My team is like Milan 1948"?

 

[antohan]

The tactical reasoning behind that side was "How do we make sure these 5 have as much impact and the other 6 as little impact as possible?".

That made me

 

[antohan]

Is this due to Anto/Balu being very vocal about their intentions or are all drafts full of "My team is like Milan 1948"?

Most drafts will have 1-2 sides trying to replicate a really successful one from the theme. Theon had a peach of a Milan naughties side in the CL draft, far and away the best side IMO, then for some reason started throwing Iniesta and Xavi in there.

This being a WC draft, it was bound to happen that some would pick themes that capture the manager's imagination. I said early on I didn't expect to win it (to Aldo's derision) but really didn't as ultimately 3-2-5, however well put together, will get shafted sooner or later. The main fun is in drafting and building the sides though and I had been looking forward to the WC draft to do that as the All-time we did with one player per country made it impossible to pick on a theme.

 

[Gio]

I think all this "trying to emulate a side half-asses" is a bit pointless. WC sides are built around the unfortunate truth that they don't have great players for each position so they have to build around the "stars".

Brazil of '02 is not really an amazing tactic per se, it was just the fact that the 5 best players were Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cafu, R.Carlos so they wanted to get them involved as much as possible.

The tactical reasoning behind that side was "How do we make sure these 5 have as much impact and the other 6 as little impact as possible?".

Nothing against your team Theon, I don't think you at all play like that Brazil side though. You have a much much better team in every way and comparing yourself to the '02 side would be negative(not sure you have even done it though).

Does anybody agree? The only teams who even resemble a real side was Balu in the first round where he actually used a high-line and an offside trap which Total Football relies on.

Also Anto in the last round was close enough for me to label it as a great emulation/homage to a real team in history.

Is this due to Anto/Balu being very vocal about their intentions or are all drafts full of "My team is like Milan 1948"?

On Brazil '02 yes it was a classic combination of pragmatism and flair, completely building it around those five all of whom were the best in the world in their position (except Ronaldinho). Their shitty form in advance of that tournament shows how difficult to achieve that balance is in practice and the real challenges of cramming in too many flair players.

On the notion of team building I agree that was much to do with being vocal about it, albeit there was a strong logic behind how the Hungarian attack was constructed and how Cruyff fit into and knitted together Balu's team.

 

[Arruda]

I refuse to call him 'fat'. Never understood why people can't call him Brazilian Ronaldo, or just accept that he's the one and only Ronaldo and C. Ronaldo needs an additional name.

True. Hope it's a momentary thing, and future generations don't refer to him that way. A huge disservice to one of the best players ever.

 

[antohan]

True. Hope it's a momentary thing, and future generations don't refer to him that way. A huge disservice to one of the best players ever.

He is Ronaldo, the one and only. Always was and always will be.

Speaking of, a clip to give food for thought. It's in portuguese but you can get the general idea: Brazilian fans, pundits and football personalities choosing between Ronaldo or Romario. I had it for the last game but it was never worth even discussing it seeing as no one gave two shits about Romario being on the pitch.

To me it's Ronaldo. A headache whether you tried to defend deep or high up because he wasn't just a phenomenom physically and in his pre-injury athleticism, but also one of the best ever at running AT a defence. Romario did however have certain parts of his game where he was superior. He had better technique and genius to make something out of nothing inside a square foot (Maradonesque at times), his explosion over the first five yards off the shoulder was unmatched and his control and composure when finishing also shaded Ronaldo's.

The Brazilians can't make up their minds though. 3-3 in the expert vote (with Parreira and Junior sitting on the fence), 3-3 in the journalist vote, and Romario ultimately winning by 20,000 votes in 500,000 in a fan poll (52%-48%, roughly). Obviously spending more time in Brazil props him up, but it is interesting how close it is to Brazilian fans, yet how massive the gap is in "draft appreciation".


(and it's worth it for the clips and familiar faces alone, at the very least you can tell who each voted)

 

[Moby]

Unfortunately I never managed to watch Romario at his peak but given the correct setup he's as good as it gets with him in the box with players like Laudrup, Pep, Hristo providing service.

You answered the whole thing yourself though, Ronaldo's completeness is the beauty of it. It's never one thing with him.

Also like I wrote before I've seen Ronaldo take down the bravest and strongest defenders that stood. A friend of mine interviewed Nesta a couple of weeks back and as usual he had a question about "Who was the most difficult to face". Now Nesta has faced a fair few names in his time including a prime Messi, yet he did not hesitate at all and the answer was plain and simple - O Fenomeno.

That sort of intimidation is quite rare in such names. You can go ask the same question to Maldini, Thuram, Zanetti, Stam, etc etc. I really doubt if anyone will ever say someone else's name. That level of unmatched appreciation from your peers, really says it all.

And, how many players can you name who are loved equally by Madrid fans, Barca fans, Inter fans and Milan fans?

This is a very fanboi-ish post but I don't really care. When it comes to Ronaldo I can't help but become a romantic.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Ronaldo and Ronaldinho(Not in a WC draft) are rated extremely high for a level they didn't sustain for a long period. Ronaldo got injured and everybody wants to believe he would have kept that up - or even improved if he wasn't injured.

Ronaldinho rides the same "he was improving so massively every year that who knows where he would have ended".

That is why they are so highly rated in a draft which is about peak level IMO. I still think Romario is underrated in these drafts though, he never gets the credit he actually deserves.

 

[Moby]

Most drafts will have 1-2 sides trying to replicate a really successful one from the theme. Theon had a peach of a Milan naughties side in the CL draft, far and away the best side IMO, then for some reason started throwing Iniesta and Xavi in there.

This being a WC draft, it was bound to happen that some would pick themes that capture the manager's imagination. I said early on I didn't expect to win it (to Aldo's derision) but really didn't as ultimately 3-2-5, however well put together, will get shafted sooner or later. The main fun is in drafting and building the sides though and I had been looking forward to the WC draft to do that as the All-time we did with one player per country made it impossible to pick on a theme.

I never had a problem with a formation, you can re-read all my posts. I don't care that much about formations as long as the key battles are being won and key areas are covered properly through tactics. Your plan revolved around your midfield taking his team by storm which I never agreed to, it was the same in any other formation, you can't ignore the midfield battle. Anyway the game is over and same things have been repeated many times.

As for my derision, that is more of a compliment for you, because there's no one who comes close to backing his opinion as strongly as you do and I could never see you saying something like "alright lads here's something to entertain you, I don't mind if you don't vote for me but enjoy it, etc" because we all know you don't take defeat easily.

 

[Balu]

Unfortunately I never managed to watch Romario at his peak but given the correct setup he's as good as it gets with him in the box with players like Laudrup, Pep, Hristo providing service.

You really should take the time and watch a few performances of Cruyff's dream team. In terms of beautiful football, that's arguably unmatched on club level.

 

[Moby]

Ronaldo and Ronaldinho(Not in a WC draft) are rated extremely high for a level they didn't sustain for a long period. Ronaldo got injured and everybody wants to believe he would have kept that up - or even improved if he wasn't injured.

Ronaldinho rides the same "he was improving so massively every year that who knows where he would have ended".

That is why they are so highly rated in a draft which is about peak level IMO. I still think Romario is underrated in these drafts though, he never gets the credit he actually deserves.

They're not comparable when you take about longevity. Ronaldo took the world by storm as soon as he step foot in Europe. He was banging them in for fun while at PSV and had that, THAT, season at Barca at the age of 21.

Anyway, Ronaldo came back from those injuries and kept up his level, won his country the World Cup and kept dominating Europe. He smashed an effortless hat trick at OT which got a standing ovation in 03, and it was only till around or after mid 00s when he really started gaining weight that he dropped his level. Even with his injuries he has a solid decade to his name when he was raping defenders when he wasn't injured and that was quite a lot. And his eventual decline was completely down to health problems as opposed to Ronaldinho who barely after 4 odd years lost the motivation and the attitude to continue performing.

 

[Moby]

You really should take the time and watch a few performances of Cruyff's dream team. In terms of beautiful football, that's arguably unmatched on club level.

I have watched the recordings, I meant I didn't watch them live like I did someone like Ronaldo.

 

[Moby]

As for Romario, he isn't really underrated and he's usually rated highly but you can't complain if someone picks Ronaldo ahead of him. Ronaldo has the case to be picked ahead of most strikers that have played the game. In terms of strikers I don't see many who would be rated ahead of Romario here.

The one who is truly underrated and always will be is Marco Van Basten. Now that's a case of injuries making people forget what a champion he was.

 

[Cal?]

I refuse to call him 'fat'. Never understood why people can't call him Brazilian Ronaldo, or just accept that he's the one and only Ronaldo and C. Ronaldo needs an additional name.

I still believe his peak was his pre-injury form at Inter, even though Bierhoff scored more goals that season. He was so much more than a striker, he was more a false 9 than Messi in the last 2 years. It was just brilliant to watch, how he as a striker still connected all the attackers in the team.



A few more years in that form and he would be named in the same tier as Pele and Maradona, imo.

Agree with not calling him "fat", Luiz Ronaldo seems more appropriate.

Can't be just Ronaldo as Cristiano is the better player over their careers.

 

[Annahnomoss]

They're not comparable when you take about longevity. Ronaldo took the world by storm as soon as he step foot in Europe. He was banging them in for fun while at PSV and had that, THAT, season at Barca at the age of 21.

Anyway, Ronaldo came back from those injuries and kept up his level, won his country the World Cup and kept dominating Europe. He smashed an effortless hat trick at OT which got a standing ovation in 03, and it was only till around or after mid 00s when he really started gaining weight that he dropped his level. Even with his injuries he has a solid decade to his name when he was raping defenders when he wasn't injured and that was quite a lot. And his eventual decline was completely down to health problems as opposed to Ronaldinho who barely after 4 odd years lost the motivation and the attitude to continue performing.

Referring to their peaks rather than careers. Ronaldo was never the same player after 99 and he just played 17 league games in 3 seasons between '99 and '01.

After being out for so long he came back and was no longer a contender for the worlds best player in history - but he was probably the best striker around though. Ronaldo had a 3 year peak or so between 96-99 which is similar to what Ronaldinho had.

Like said, Ronaldinho had a much worse career post-peak than Ronaldo who still had a respectable career.

 

[antohan]

Unfortunately I never managed to watch Romario at his peak but given the correct setup he's as good as it gets with him in the box with players like Laudrup, Pep, Hristo providing service.

That's one thing that bugs me: "Romario in the box". Yes, he was King, but I sometimes get the feeling people underrate Romario on the break or in a side that isn't dominating proceedings. One thing is true, he wouldn't drop deep, work hard and create his own chances, no fecking way. But he would keep a defence well pegged back, or drop a bit deeper to let them creep slowly to a reasonably high line (between 1/4 and 1/3 of the pitch) and completely rape them. Just look at any goal clips, a fair share of them is ball over the top, explosion, lob over the keeper. He just did it game after game, week after week, and no one could do feck all about it because if they went too deep then they gave the likes of Laudrup and Stoichkov the freedom of the midifield, which was equally dangerous!

 

[Gio]

They're not comparable when you take about longevity. Ronaldo took the world by storm as soon as he step foot in Europe. He was banging them in for fun while at PSV and had that, THAT, season at Barca at the age of 21.

Anyway, Ronaldo came back from those injuries and kept up his level, won his country the World Cup and kept dominating Europe. He smashed an effortless hat trick at OT which got a standing ovation in 03, and it was only till around or after mid 00s when he really started gaining weight that he dropped his level. Even with his injuries he has a solid decade to his name when he was raping defenders when he wasn't injured and that was quite a lot. And his eventual decline was completely down to health problems as opposed to Ronaldinho who barely after 4 odd years lost the motivation and the attitude to continue performing.

Well Ronaldo post-99 and two knee blow-outs wasn't the same player, even though he was still amongst the top three or so strikers in the world. Testament to how good his 96-99 level was.

 

[Moby]

Referring to their peaks rather than careers. Ronaldo was never the same player after 99 and he just played 17 league games in 3 seasons between '99 and '01.

After being out for so long he came back and was no longer a contender for the worlds best player in history - but he was probably the best striker around though. Ronaldo had a 3 year peak or so between 96-99 which is similar to what Ronaldinho had.

Like said, Ronaldinho had a much worse career post-peak than Ronaldo who still had a respectable career.

Even if he wasn't as good as those years he was still playing at a very high level, working hard and putting in top notch performances.

Him with his injuries has a case to be the greatest striker of all time.

Him without the injuries would probably had made him the best of all time though that is an assumption more than anything.

 

[Gio]

That's one thing that bugs me: "Romario in the box". Yes, he was King, but I sometimes get the feeling people underrate Romario on the break or in a side that isn't dominating proceedings. One thing is true, he wouldn't drop deep, work hard and create his own chances, no fecking way. But he would keep a defence well pegged back, or drop a bit deeper to let them creep slowly to a reasonably high line (between 1/4 and 1/3 of the pitch) and completely rape them. Just look at any goal clips, a fair share of them is ball over the top, explosion, lob over the keeper. He just did it game after game, week after week, and no one could do feck all about it because if they went too deep then they gave the likes of Laudrup and Stoichkov the freedom of the midifield, which was equally dangerous!

Well the same acceleration that saw him sear away from defenders in the box was a more than useful tool nipping in front of them to get the ball into feet, then turning and linking play with that innate quickness of his.

 

[Moby]

That's one thing that bugs me: "Romario in the box". Yes, he was King, but I sometimes get the feeling people underrate Romario on the break or in a side that isn't dominating proceedings. One thing is true, he wouldn't drop deep, work hard and create his own chances, no fecking way. But he would keep a defence well pegged back, or drop a bit deeper to let them creep slowly to a reasonably high line (between 1/4 and 1/3 of the pitch) and completely rape them. Just look at any goal clips, a fair share of them is ball over the top, explosion, lob over the keeper. He just did it game after game, week after week, and no one could do feck all about it because if they went too deep then they gave the likes of Laudrup and Stoichkov the freedom of the midifield, which was equally dangerous!

True, I didn't mean he was limited or anything, quite the contrary as his technique, first touch and ability to blaze past a defender were all top notch.

I'd prefer to have him ahead of someone like Muller, not saying I rate one over the other or anything and by all accounts people will tell you how Muller scored no matter what, but when it comes to watching them I enjoyed watching Romario a lot more.

 

[antohan]

I never had a problem with a formation, you can re-read all my posts. I don't care that much about formations as long as the key battles are being won and key areas are covered properly through tactics. Your plan revolved around your midfield taking his team by storm which I never agreed to, it was the same in any other formation, you can't ignore the midfield battle. Anyway the game is over and same things have been repeated many times.

As for my derision, that is more of a compliment for you, because there's no one who comes close to backing his opinion as strongly as you do and I could never see you saying something like "alright lads here's something to entertain you, I don't mind if you don't vote for me but enjoy it, etc" because we all know you don't take defeat easily.

I just alluded to you laughing at me saying I wasn't in it to win it but to put together a certain side. A side I (and I assume everyone) knew was never going to win.

I don't actually enter these things to win them any more, don't even enter that many of them, just the ones which promise the opportunity to put together a side that captures my imagination. I don't mind losing, know it will happen, what I don't take easily is the manner of it (every man and his dog arguing the rival manager's case without him having to even bother, so many players not getting any credit whatsoever and a few token ones being unbeatable draft beasts, etc., it bores me stiff).

 

[antohan]

As for Romario, he isn't really underrated and he's usually rated highly but you can't complain if someone picks Ronaldo ahead of him. Ronaldo has the case to be picked ahead of most strikers that have played the game. In terms of strikers I don't see many who would be rated ahead of Romario here.

I haven't said that, have I? I even said I prefer Ronaldo. The way Romario got overlooked in the first reinforcement round, my game and now the second reinforcements is what boggles.

You are starting to sound like that time you went on a rant about Iniesta>Zidane.

 

[Moby]

I just alluded to you laughing at me saying I wasn't in it to win it but to put together a certain side. A side I (and I assume everyone) knew was never going to win.

I don't actually enter these things to win them any more, don't even enter that many of them, just the ones which promise the opportunity to put together a side that captures my imagination. I don't mind losing, know it will happen, what I don't take easily is the manner of it (every man and his dog arguing the rival manager's case without him having to even bother, so many players not getting any credit whatsoever and a few token ones being unbeatable draft beasts, etc., it bores me stiff).

I wasn't laughing at you at any point, I meant that you usually do care about winning. At least that is what I feel.

It's not arguing anyone's case, it's about giving feedback on why I voted for one of the two options and obviously that means the reasons would favour the one I have voted for. If from that, an interesting discussion stems and is taken further, it is another issue but still no one goes into these threads with an agenda for or against someone, at least not me. And like I've said this over sensitiveness or giving too much attention to how the discussion affects the result of the poll is silly because at the end of the day any discussion is far more valuable and I'd rather see that more often than people being forced to hold back their opinions just because it might swing a few votes.

 

[antohan]

Well the same acceleration that saw him sear away from defenders in the box was a more than useful tool nipping in front of them to get the ball into feet, then turning and linking play with that innate quickness of his.

Absolutely, that's why I also referred to his "Maradonesque" traits. At his peak he was unplayable, in a different way to Ronaldo, but still unplayable.

 

[Moby]

I haven't said that, have I? I even said I prefer Ronaldo. The way Romario got overlooked in the first reinforcement round, my game and now the second reinforcements is what boggles.

You are starting to sound like that time you went on a rant about Iniesta>Zidane.

That wasn't even directed at you.

I was telling Annah why I think that Ronaldo being preferred over him doesn't mean he's underrated. How was he overlooked? I picked him in second round and get plenty of kudos for it. You can start a thread right now about the best strikers of all time and it will clear it all up in a few minutes.

 

[Balu]

The one who is truly underrated and always will be is Marco Van Basten. Now that's a case of injuries making people forget what a champion he was.

True, never understood why. He certainly has the titles to back it up, not only with Milan, but also the Euro win in '88 with the nationalteam.

 

[antohan]

I wasn't laughing at you at any point, I meant that you usually do care about winning. At least that is what I feel.

It's not arguing anyone's case, it's about giving feedback on why I voted for one of the two options and obviously that means the reasons would favour the one I have voted for. If from that, an interesting discussion stems and is taken further, it is another issue but still no one goes into these threads with an agenda for or against someone, at least not me. And like I've said this over sensitiveness or giving too much attention to how the discussion affects the result of the poll is silly because at the end of the day any discussion is far more valuable and I'd rather see that more often than people being forced to hold back their opinions just because it might swing a few votes.

I'm not sure why you keep going with this. I just said despite you laughing at me saying I didn't care, that I didn't. That's it, you posted a LOL sign and I understand where you were coming from and don't have an issue with it at all.

Re: the discussions. I'm not saying there's agenda involved, just observing how easy it is to put together a side requiring less explaining, leaving people to imagine it working, and letting them argue your case while you sit back. I didn't see a single one of you out there questioning anything about Theon, when there were obvious and very clear shortcomings in his side. Again, not agenda, just that by playing the less orthodox way you end up arguing its case and everyone takes the alternative stance rather than trying to explore the upsides together, etc.

Take this for instance, it didn't get a single comment yet was a post well worth discussing, don't you think? (particularly considering how much work it takes! )

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wc-all-time-all-stars-qf4-anto-vs-theon.383068/page-3#post-14928315