Djalma is the best if you want a defensive one, kind of like Maldini. Otherwise Cafu/Alberto are very equal - Cafu has better physique but Alberto the finer playmaking ability.
So it depends on if you want a playmaking RB or one who offers overlaps/width the best. No right answer really.
On the other side we have Facchetti VS Nilton in similar manners.
I would personally rate them as:
1. Facchetti
2. Nilton
3. Alberto/Cafu
I agree with both you and Fergus. Cafu is up there as well, no doubt. I personally think Alberto edges it ahead, because he was defensively slightly better than Cafu and his attacking contribution edges it over Djelma, but it really is a matter of opinions and there's not much between them. Djelma certainly doesn't stand out though, I think he benefits a bit through his last name being the same as Nilton's.
He's rated quite highly in Brazil, man. Whenever I've spoken to a Brazilian they rate him as highly as anyone else. Alberto was more popular and became a star name, played in US etc as well with Pele and all but I doubt anyone would say Djalma isn't as good as him. He missed 58 WC but came back in the final and delivered a performance better than any other RB in that tournament, then again he was great in 62 complimenting Garrincha well.
Thing with Alberto is, he is either underrated or overrated. Since he scored THAT goal he gets considered as a godly figure when it can be said for Brazil Djalma contributed every bit as much. But then due to that some think he was overly attacking while he was top notch defensively.
The last name thing could be true, I forgot who it was but someone here actually called them twins.
He's rated quite highly in Brazil, man. Whenever I've spoken to a Brazilian they rate him as highly as anyone else. Alberto was more popular and became a star name, played in US etc as well with Pele and all but I doubt anyone would say Djalma isn't as good as him. He missed 58 WC but came back in the final and delivered a performance better than any other RB in that tournament, then again he was great in 62 complimenting Garrincha well.
Thing with Alberto is, he is either underrated or overrated. Since he scored THAT goal he gets considered as a godly figure when it can be said for Brazil Djalma contributed every bit as much. But then due to that some think he was overly attacking while he was top notch defensively.
The last name thing could be true, I forgot who it was but someone here actually called them twins.
He's rated quite highly in Brazil, man. Whenever I've spoken to a Brazilian they rate him as highly as anyone else. Alberto was more popular and became a star name, played in US etc as well with Pele and all but I doubt anyone would say Djalma isn't as good as him. He missed 58 WC but came back in the final and delivered a performance better than any other RB in that tournament, then again he was great in 62 complimenting Garrincha well.
Thing with Alberto is, he is either underrated or overrated. Since he scored THAT goal he gets considered as a godly figure when it can be said for Brazil Djalma contributed every bit as much. But then due to that some think he was overly attacking while he was top notch defensively.
The last name thing could be true, I forgot who it was but someone here actually called them twins.
It's really weird, I've read someone calling him a former version of Dani Alves once . Makes no sense at all. Agree with the rest, like I said, there isn't much between them and I'd prefer Alberto because he had such a perfect balance between defense and attack. The popularity certainly is there, no doubt. He really is extremely entertaing though, every time I hear him speak it's a joy to listen to.
It's really weird, I've read someone calling him a former version of Dani Alves once . Makes no sense at all. Agree with the rest, like I said, there isn't much between them and I'd prefer Alberto because he had such a perfect balance between defense and attack. The popularity certainly is there, no doubt. He really is extremely entertaing though, every time I hear him speak it's a joy to listen to.
For a World Cup draft there's very very little between Djalma, Cafu and Carlos Alberto. CA would probably have marginally been my preferred pick for his 1970 peak form, but i was delighted to get Cafu for his longevity, who has won more WC games than any other player
For a World Cup draft there's very very little between Djalma, Cafu and Carlos Alberto. CA would probably have marginally been my preferred pick for his 1970 form, but i was delighted to get Cafu for his longevity, who has won more WC games than any other player
So I got really luck that you picked shortly after me and not before me or my Jairzinho - Alberto wing would never have been? That would have sucked, really.
So I got really luck that you picked shortly after me and not before me or my Jairzinho - Alberto wing would never have been? That would have sucked, really.
After I picked Jairzinho, he was never going to last back to you, you should have known that . You can blame Anto for picking Neeskens. Jairzinho/Alberto were my plans for 3rd and 4th actually. Not sure who I would have gone for first, if both lasted for my 3rd pick.
I'm really glad you picked Leonidas. One of those players that for no reason was forgotten about. He had a 1 goal a game ratio for his club as well as carrying a losing team through the WC in a manner only Cruyff has done before.
Completely stoked that he is getting recognition for his ability.
How would people rate (RAM)Leonidas vs (LAM)Charlton? Both of them had massive work-rate defensively but Charlton was more a playmaker/Ronaldinho type and Leonidas was a dribbler/goal-scorer.
What a nutter. The other one too, for that matter. Did Pelé really say "Christiano Leonardo?" It's even funnier if Maradona just made it up, of course.
“While presenting the award [this year’s Ballon d’Or] to Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele uttered his name as ‘Cristiano Leonardo’. This just shows where he belongs.”
Those two, unbelievable. We really need another greatest of all time candidate soon and ideally from a different country than Argentina or Brazil so that both together can find reasons why he isn't really that great.
I agree. Di Stefano-Pele-Beckenbauer-Cruyff-Maradona existed without much time in between and now we haven't had anybody since Maradona lost his peak before the 90's.
Messi doesn't have the same impact the above had had. In my mind a striker will never be among the best in history - not because they lack skill but they can't have the same impact.
You really need "a playmakers impact" to be rated among those greats. Messi has to drop down in the pitch and become the main playmaker to reach those heights.
Messi doesn't have the same impact the above had had. In my mind a striker will never be among the best in history - not because they lack skill but they can't have the same impact.
You really need "a playmakers impact" to be rated among those greats. Messi has to drop down in the pitch and become the main playmaker to reach those heights.
He's boring because he's Argentine and Maradona will take his side. I'm all for Götze winning Germany the worldcup and leading Bayern to two more trebles . Then Pele and Maradona can argue together that he isn't really that good .
I agree. Di Stefano-Pele-Beckenbauer-Cruyff-Maradona existed without much time in between and now we haven't had anybody since Maradona lost his peak before the 90's.
The late 60's, early 70's were crazy anyway, if you look at the all time great lists. Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Müller and Best were born within 3 years. Make it 7 years and you can add Pele and Eusebio. That's incredible, really. And some people talk about it being special that Ronaldo and Messi are playing at the same time.
It is crazy watching the '66 WC and you have Beckenbauer, Eusebio, Charlton, Pele, Garrincha, Jairzinho, Djalma Santos, Facchetti, Figueroa, Gerson, Tostao, Coluna, Burgnich, Schnellinger, Overath, Bobby Moore
Going back to the fullback discussion, I am a bit sad Zanetti isn't rated as highly as others. He is the perfect fullback, everything you want in a fullback, he has it. If you go on pure ability and not achievements I don't see why he cannot rival the best fullbacks of all time. He's been playing every game every season well into late 30s. It's just that he stayed at Inter when he could have easily moved to a club like Real and won Champions Leagues etc, that he is forgotten. No wonder it was the great Facchetti who had a big role in his development.
And he's one brilliant professional to go with. For me if you want a fullback that gives you everything he's absolutely right up there.
We only talked about Brazilian fullbacks, right? At least I did . I love Zanetti, I also think Lahm is still a bit underrated in these all time rightback discussions. Pretty sure that'll change after he retired.
We only talked about Brazilian fullbacks, right? At least I did . I love Zanetti, I also think Lahm is still a bit underrated in these all time rightback discussions. Pretty sure that'll change after he retired.
Lahm is up there as well. Without a doubt. He's hardly ever disappointed in a big tournament be it for Germany or Bayern. Has all the great qualities needed and gets the job done no matter what. Really rate him. And after playing on both flanks, he's followed Zanetti's footsteps by playing in midfield.
He'd definitely be there by the end of his career, no question.
Going back to the fullback discussion, I am a bit sad Zanetti isn't rated as highly as others. He is the perfect fullback, everything you want in a fullback, he has it. If you go on pure ability and not achievements I don't see why he cannot rival the best fullbacks of all time. He's been playing every game every season well into late 30s. It's just that he stayed at Inter when he could have easily moved to a club like Real and won Champions Leagues etc, that he is forgotten. No wonder it was the great Facchetti who had a big role in his development.
And he's one brilliant professional to go with. For me if you want a fullback that gives you everything he's absolutely right up there.
Great player. One of my favourites. He's under-appreciated in the way some great players just are - it's not like he's a hidden gem either. He just hasn't gained quite the status he deserves.
Btw. I'm just watching Jairzinho's highlights against Italy, @Annahnomoss . I really think Facchetti needs some help in the game and '70 clearly was Facchetti's peak tournament, no excuses there.
Anyone else shares my opinion that defensive fullbacks against great wingers are a bit overrated in these drafts, especially in comparison to great centerbacks against strikers? I mean, Garrincha vs Maldini and a lot of people assume, Garrincha is fecked, while Ronaldo or Pele or Eusebio or whoever against Baresi or Beckenbauer or Figueroa and most assume, he'll score anyway.
Anyone else shares my opinion that defensive fullbacks against great wingers are a bit overrated in these drafts, especially in comparison to great centerbacks against strikers? I mean, Garrincha vs Maldini and a lot of people assume, Garrincha is fecked, while Ronaldo or Pele or Eusebio or whoever against Baresi or Beckenbauer or Figueroa and most assume, he'll score anyway.
Anyone else shares my opinion that defensive fullbacks against great wingers are a bit overrated in these drafts, especially in comparison to great centerbacks against strikers? I mean, Garrincha vs Maldini and a lot of people assume, Garrincha is fecked, while Ronaldo or Pele or Eusebio or whoever against Baresi or Beckenbauer or Figueroa and most assume, he'll score anyway.
In my game against Gio it was considered by many that Eusebio would score two or three, despite Beckenbauer and Kohler at the back.
But then on the flip side, a great winger can be completely shut out by a good fullback.. Doesnt make sense.
I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, but the two situations should be treated the same. Its like for strikers the benefit goes to the strikers, but for wingers the benefit goes to the fullback. Very strange.
Going back to the fullback discussion, I am a bit sad Zanetti isn't rated as highly as others. He is the perfect fullback, everything you want in a fullback, he has it. If you go on pure ability and not achievements I don't see why he cannot rival the best fullbacks of all time. He's been playing every game every season well into late 30s. It's just that he stayed at Inter when he could have easily moved to a club like Real and won Champions Leagues etc, that he is forgotten. No wonder it was the great Facchetti who had a big role in his development.
And he's one brilliant professional to go with. For me if you want a fullback that gives you everything he's absolutely right up there.
In the context of this draft it's only fair that Zanetti doesn't merit the same kudos as others. But generally I'd say he's a wee bit under-rated amongst the public. For me Zanetti, Thuram and Cafu are all on the same level and as good as I've seen from right-backs in any era. But it's probably accurate to say Aldo that Cafu and Thuram are more regularly regarded as "best of their generation" to a greater extent than Zanetti. In that sense and as much as he is well respected amongst ourselves, he deserves a bit more regard for his his general reputation. I suspect Cafu and Thuram's greater World Cup impact has much to do with that.
Anyone else shares my opinion that defensive fullbacks against great wingers are a bit overrated in these drafts, especially in comparison to great centerbacks against strikers? I mean, Garrincha vs Maldini and a lot of people assume, Garrincha is fecked, while Ronaldo or Pele or Eusebio or whoever against Baresi or Beckenbauer or Figueroa and most assume, he'll score anyway.
Well a winger v full-back is often a straight one-on-one, whereas a striker grabbing a goal is often the product of dominance or a mismatch elsewhere on the park.
. You can blame Anto for picking Neeskens. Jairzinho/Alberto were my plans for 3rd and 4th actually. Not sure who I would have gone for first, if both lasted for my 3rd pick.
