I find the notion abhorrent that Jordan would set up an empire whose power is built on treating some women as non-human (kept in kennels like dogs!) and then reward that empire with status and near-world dominance. I would have been satisfied with some concrete signs that the slave empire would come to an end, that the slaves would somehow be liberated and the empire continue on a more egalitarian basis... none of that happened. Instead, the Seanchan did sign the pact, yet even on the mopping-up phase of the Last Battle they were cheating to enslave as many more women as they could before the treaty came into effect!
Books Fantasy Reads
- Thread starter Alock1
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As I noted, it isn't your post specifically I was commenting on, but the general attitude I have encountered from Malazan fans in various forums. I was on the original Malazan forum (called myself Jaghut Tyrant, and when someone else stole the handle after a period of inactivity on my part, took a new handle as Coin Bearer). I was also on the TOR re-read forum of the Malazan series. The attitude I am concerned about is something I've come across over and over again. I remember on one forum my post suggesting that I consider Malazan only third on my list after WoT and ASOIAF was removed by the moderators! That said, I have to agree with you that the scale of the world is huge, especially across time. But consider that most of the action in all the books takes place on a few continents that are described in some detail: Genebackis, Seven Cities, and Letheras come to mind; the rest of the time we are in one of the Elder or human-accessible warrens, which are not explained in any detail. Thus, even though the world-building is huge, I'm not sure that it serves to further the story much or make it any more understandable.
Surely Cosmere will top that eventually, if it hasn't already.
I find Cosmere a bit shallow to be fair. It is very big, but a bit simplistic at times.
Randland is easily the best world when it comes to building in fantast sagas IMO.
My current top 10 would likely be:
1. Wheel of Time (Robert Jordan)
2. A Song Of Ice And Fire (George RR Martin)
3. Stormlight Archives (Brandon Sanderson)
4. Dresden Files (Jim Butcher)
5. Codex Alera (Jim Butcher)
6. Malazan Book of the Fallen (Steven Erikson / ICE)
7. Black Company (Glen Cook)
8. Mistborn Era 2 (Alloy of Law/Shadows of Self/Bands of Mourning; Brandon Sanderson)
9. Realm of the Elderlings (Robin Hobb)
10. Mistborn Era 1 (Final Empire/Well of Ascension/Hero of Ages; Brandon Sanderson)
I have refrained from reading the unfinished Kingkiller Chronicles so far, but from everything I hear it would likely crack my top 10 when I do read it.
1. Wheel of Time (Robert Jordan)
2. A Song Of Ice And Fire (George RR Martin)
3. Stormlight Archives (Brandon Sanderson)
4. Dresden Files (Jim Butcher)
5. Codex Alera (Jim Butcher)
6. Malazan Book of the Fallen (Steven Erikson / ICE)
7. Black Company (Glen Cook)
8. Mistborn Era 2 (Alloy of Law/Shadows of Self/Bands of Mourning; Brandon Sanderson)
9. Realm of the Elderlings (Robin Hobb)
10. Mistborn Era 1 (Final Empire/Well of Ascension/Hero of Ages; Brandon Sanderson)
I have refrained from reading the unfinished Kingkiller Chronicles so far, but from everything I hear it would likely crack my top 10 when I do read it.
I was more looking at it from the aspect of not only creating cultures and customs for each world but also creating animal and plant life unique to each of the planets that we have seen so far along with magic systems which while being different from each other still adhere to the fundamental rules of the world.
You rate Mistborn 2 higher than Mistborn 1? Why?
I thought that Mistborn 2 (bar the second book) was absolute garbage.
My first impression as well. I liked it, but first trilogy was superior. It was more steampunk than normal fantasy.
Honestly, I have the same opinion of ASOIAF fans, mainly the TV show watchers
You are right on many races, characters, geographies not getting enough attention. This is what keeps me still hooked to the series. Assail explores the continent of Assail, Stonewielder explores Korel, Kharkanas explores the races, characters and realms of Tiste, Jaghut and Azathanai, Path to Ascendancy sheds light on Li Heng...but despite that I would say only 15% is well explored. It's a well designed world that could host another 100 books and still have more to offer.
I found Mistborn 1 a superior series on a conceptual level, but I also thought the Hero of Ages relentlessly grim and dark and not much fun. I read fantasy books purely for entertainment, not literature, and I think Mistborn 2 is a lot more fun than 1.
The mountains of ash grinding down all life for the entire book, and then everyone dying at the end!
Ratings may have changed from before based on my current moodNot really comprehensive...will add to this later.
1. Malazan Book of the Fallen (Steven Erikson / ICE)
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2. Wheel of Time (Robert Jordan)
3. A Song Of Ice And Fire (George RR Martin)
4. Lord of the Rings (JRR Tolkien)
5. Black Company (Glen Cook)
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6. Kingkiller Chronicles (Patrick Rothfuss)
7. Stormlight Archives (Brandon Sanderson)
8. First Law Trilogy (Joe Abercrombie)
9. Dresden Files (Jim Butcher)
10. Mistborn (Brandon Sanderson)
11. Farseer / Tawny Man / Fitz and Fool (Robin Hobb)
12. Long Price Quartet (Daniel Abraham)
13. Tales of the Ketty Jay (Chris Wooding)
14. Night Angel (Brent Weeks)
15. Alloy of Law (Brandon Sanderson)
16. Broken Empire (Mark Lawrence)
17. Rivers of London (Peter Grant)
Interesting. We seem to have pretty matching tastes mostly (WoT and SOIAF are my two favourite and I've enjoyed Sanderson and Hobb a lot) but I'm currently on the second book of the Malazan series and I'll be honest, this world Erikson has built has not gripped me yet. It's almost like it's not governed by rules and he makes things up as he goes along. That's my impression so far.
I was thinking of switching to Cook's Black Company.
PS. LOTR has sentimental value, being the books that introduced me to the genre as a teenager, so it's hard to judge and rank them objectively... but I do love it still after many reads.
You will find that impression becoming more pronounced as the series progresses. That said, a few of the Malazan books, especially the first three, can be read almost like standalone novels. I find that, when he is not pulling uber-powered ancient beings out of his arse every other page to suit the situation at hand, as he does to very little coherence in the later books, he can tell a compelling story in a beautiful way. Most of Book 2 is about the Chain of Dogs, an attempt by a military garrison to guard to safety a few thousand civilian refugees through an entire continent in revolt and across several thousand miles of hostile territory. The brilliance of the military campaigns that were fought to protect the refugees, the bravery of the soldiers, and the ultimate end of the saga is probably the most harrowing and ultimately uplifting event in all fantasy literature. If I were to consider only the first three books in Malazan I would rank the series third after WoT and ASOIAF. When we add in the rest of the series my liking drops significantly.
I'd say book 2 was a cut above the rest.
Not as convinced with 1 or 3.
The writing in the first book felt kind of ... unrefined? Underdeveloped maybe.
And just trying to lay some foundation for the universe makes it hard work.
I was kind of disappointed in the third.
Still have 3 or so to go but thought the first Letherii one was one of the better ones.
Not as convinced with 1 or 3.
The writing in the first book felt kind of ... unrefined? Underdeveloped maybe.
And just trying to lay some foundation for the universe makes it hard work.
I was kind of disappointed in the third.
Still have 3 or so to go but thought the first Letherii one was one of the better ones.
Genuinely suprised to see Hobb's books feature so low on most lists (or not at all) and no mention of Earthsea whatsoever.
Have only read the first book so far and while I enjoyed it, I found that I needed to have the physical copy of the book to read it properly and not an epub, which I have, to read while commuting to work.
I am not sure I am making sense there.
I've finished all released books in the LoTR, ASOIAF series. I could do with another series right now. I rate both of them highly, and I absolutely love LoTR series including the Silmarillion, Tom Bombadil, Children of Hurin etc. I've also read Harry Potter, Shannara series but I rate LoTR much higher than the other books. I can't get into children's books such as Enders game, Percy Jackson etc. I absolutely loved Tigana by Guy Gavriel Gay.
Now that I've given some info on the kind of books I like, can you friendly lot suggest me a series that I can start?
Now that I've given some info on the kind of books I like, can you friendly lot suggest me a series that I can start?
No I get you, it changes the experience. The majority of the books I complete are by audiobook and while I enjoy it immensely and it helps pass the long hours on the road it can't compete with a proper read.
I'm fairly new to the genre myself but sounds like you are more of a fan of more traditional, fantasy.
Farseerer Trilogy is a great read. First Law if you want something grim with genuinely good, dark comedy aspects. Kingkiller series (although unfinished) is beautifully written and will give you something a little different as it's first person perspective and Earthsea if you want something short and quick to read. The black company might also be to your taste too.
Thanks man. Just finished 'World of Ice and Fire' and loved that too. I'm going to give the Kingkiller and First Law series a try first.
If you are ok with reading unfinished series, read Kingkiller Chronicles. If you want completed series to read, go for Realm of Elderlings. It consists of different self contained trilogies, each of which gets connected to the overall story by the last trilogy. You really can't go wrong with this one.
Or if you want some urban fantasy, go for Dresden Files. Its unfinished but 15 books have been released and its really fun series to read.
Earthsea would definitely feature highly on my list, very unlike other fantasy series and Ursula Le Guin is one of my favourite authors.
On this and the previous page, people have been giving their top 20 or so sagas. So just look at them, see which one are rated highly and jump on them.
Anyway, finished The Red Queen's War trilogy last night. While it wasn't as good as The Broken Empire (and Jalan isn't Jorg) it was a decent read, with a lot of good moment. In addition, it clarified some of the events of the original trilogy, and the highlight was when Jalan talked with Jorg.
I think that there is another book set in the same world (a collection of short stories) that I am eventually going to read.
I think that there is another book set in the same world (a collection of short stories) that I am eventually going to read.
Seems you prefer Epic Fantasy. Wheel of Time should be next.
Didn't much like Earthsea. I've read only the first trilogy and couldn't relate to or understand the major characters, especially Sparrowhawk, the main protagonist. He spent most of the 2nd and 3rd novels being mostly silent and mysterious while we view him through other people's eyes. I doubt I would continue further into the series.
Reading the Unholy Consult. This book is really dark, isn't it. It makes his other books, and the likes of Abercrombie/Lawrence's books as children's stories in comparison.
In a good way?
Well, it is all within the themes of the story, but a bit hard to stomach it.
Started reading the Iron Druid Chronicles. Don't think these books will last too long.
Hobb is always 2nd/3rd on my list. Purely in terms of characterization I'd have her only behind George. She's brilliant.
Earthsea is a bit....old for lack of a better word. It has a quaint sort of quality to it but the plot feels very boring once you've read the more complex books. I did like the 2nd book though. The philosophical and religious discussions were surprisingly fascinating.
I kind of agree. And although I still enjoyed it, it definitely shows its age. The reason why I mentioned it was because it's usually so well received, and whenever someone brings up prose in fantasy fiction Le Guin 's name is always mentioned without fail. So I was a little suprised it hadn't been shown a little more love.
It's very light and fun. More YA than serious fantasy. I liked them as a break from Malazan.
Yeah seems very light. I also have Codex Alera. They should last me till end of August.
Just downloaded the Wheel Of Time audio books including the prequel which I am about to start. Is it as good as everyone says?
'Everyone'? It is one of those sagas where the only thing everyone agrees, is that it has a lot of flaws, and that most of characters were poorly written. For me and a lot of people, that doesn't make the saga anything less than amazing and super-epic but a lot of people don't like it, especially now that we are in the golden age of fantasy books. So yep, this saga divides the opinion.
Do not read the prequel before you finish at least the seventh book (but read it before you start the twelfth book).
Finished Hounded (Book #1 of the Iron Druid Chronicles) - Apart from having difficulty in pronouncing the Irish names, I found it decently entertaining. Wasn't expecting anything great so there's that also. Oberon is great comic relief and love Atticus' interactions with Oberon.
About a third of my way through Hexed (Book #2) and I really want to know why everyone seems to think Thor is a dick. Hope it gets explained at some point in this book or later in the series.
About a third of my way through Hexed (Book #2) and I really want to know why everyone seems to think Thor is a dick. Hope it gets explained at some point in this book or later in the series.
Reading Warbreaker. It is probably the worst book I have ever read, with the most awkward dialogue and unfunny humor ever. It makes Elantris look a masterpiece in comparison.
The lack of sex appeal is another big one. For a high fantasy spanning 12 books, you'd struggle to name a proper, believable romance. Jordan's open hostility to the other sex makes all female characters a huge bore.
Take Kingkiller for example, if you strip out Denna or make her a one dimensional haughty bitch, the books would be half as interesting.
Book 3