Books Fantasy Reads

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Finally finished Fitz and the Fool trilogy

Overall a decent read, but falls short of a classic. The series feels bloated with more than required melodrama. The final book could have been at least a 100 pages shorter to make it a crisp story. Needlessly lengthy descriptions that somehow doesn't bring out true emotions. Like watching a Susan Sarandon movie. It irks me a lot as just when the action moves at a good pace, it gets bogged down in some descriptive suffering. For all the complexit of "dreams" it feels like the plot was very flaky and progresses quite linearly.

And you couldn't have asked for a more cliched ending than this.

6/10
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I loved the ending.
I was just waiting to be really bummed out but it felt like a really nice end for Fitz.
The perfect end for him, I really couldn't have thought of a nicer way to finish off his story.
He gets to hang out with Verity and is linked with Nighteyes and the Fool protecting the Six Duchies for the rest of eternity :)
It was a nice fuzzy ending and I needed it

I'm less sold on Bee as a future character if thats going to be a thing.
I liked her more when she was born and was just weird than how her character devveloped.
I kind of figured shes her own catalyst?
Or was it Dwalia?
 
caid said:
I loved the ending.
I was just waiting to be really bummed out but it felt like a really nice end for Fitz.
The perfect end for him, I really couldn't have thought of a nicer way to finish off his story.
He gets to hang out with Verity and is linked with Nighteyes and the Fool protecting the Six Duchies for the rest of eternity :)
It was a nice fuzzy ending and I needed it

I'm less sold on Bee as a future character if thats going to be a thing.
I liked her more when she was born and was just weird than how her character devveloped.
I kind of figured shes her own catalyst?
Or was it Dwalia?
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It's vague. I didn't get if she was the destroyer. Or was it the dragons? I don't think Dwalia was her catalyst. probably Per. Catalyst should change the world. Fitz saved people from red ships, returned dragons etc ... but all she did was to escape.

As to ending you can't really think of a more 'picture perfect' ending and so that loses all shine for followinig the formula and offering nothing new.

I was so happy in Book 2 when Fitz was revealed and recognized as a prince. I thought this book will be different and prince Fitz will be featured, rather than the same assasin Fitz embarks on quest, suffers and wins at end theme....sadly not.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It's vague. I didn't get if she was the destroyer. Or was it the dragons? I don't think Dwalia was her catalyst. probably Per. Catalyst should change the world. Fitz saved people from red ships, returned dragons etc ... but all she did was to escape.

As to ending you can't really think of a more 'picture perfect' ending and so that loses all shine for followinig the formula and offering nothing new.

I was so happy in Book 2 when Fitz was revealed and recognized as a prince. I thought this book will be different and prince Fitz will be featured, rather than the same assasin Fitz embarks on quest, suffers and wins at end theme....sadly not.
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Yeah I'd agree it wasn't original and i'd agree about excessive melodrama across the book.
I liked the end a lot despite that. You could see it coming from a million miles away throughout the trilogy and you were expecting it to be fairly horrible end to the character.
Making a stone dragon felt like a very Farseer thing to do. It felt like a continuation of his recognition as a prince to me
It wasn't original but it felt well executed

I'm pretty sure she was the destroyer. The dragons wouldnt have been there or remembered what happened to them without her. Maybe if the patriarch dragon decides to tell people
She set the place on fire and killed or was responsible for the deaths of the 4 leaders anyway
I think shes her own catalyst.
Stopping shun from being dragged through the pillars seemed like one of them moments that had to be changed and it was her own actions that stopped that from happening.
There was a bunch of others but every one features a different set of potential catalysts.
 
Finished the Black Prism and it is easily the best book in Lightbringer.

To EAP, the ending of Fitz's story was sublime. She totally nailed it.
 
It was good, but short of classic.

My whole gripe with that series is that it seems to be written as a book to close threads rather than a novel of it's own. Chade's death, Fitz becoming Prince Fitz have absolutely no impact to the trilogy plot. Nettle/Riddle, Shine/Lant, Dutiful/Kettricken...all good characters but they all seem superfluous and do no integrate with the main plot. None of them do anything worthwhile or contribute meaningfully to the story. Clerres/Council of Four reminded me of a evil version of White Tower from WoT with annoying women to boot. I was expecting some evil super-villain not a bitching council that disintegrates on it's own mostly. And Vindelar...another character of great potential, wasted.

It's all Fitz, Fool and Bee. I see she managed to bring Nighteyes back as wolf father, but sans that relationship with fee is a very diluted watered down version to what the wolf shared with Fitz. even Fool was written as annoying, sneaky and spoilt character (changed by his ordeals I suppose), but still makes me think that the Fool died and White Prophet survived.
 
I did grow to dislike the fool too, I think that started with the previous trilogy for me
I go back and forth on it. Parts of it i loved, parts were very skippable.
I'd agree it wasn't a classic but it was well above average and enjoyable all the same, which isn't bad.
 
I really liked the Fool in Farseer, but she became my favorite character after the Liveship trilogy. I was disappointed in Tawny Man with the final resolution with respect to her.
 
Finished the First Law trilogy.

On the whole, I liked it.The first book was rather slow, and featured some wretched characters, not one of whom I cared for. But I got to understand the characters better in the second book, and thought most of the story lines were well resolved in the end.

I don't think it is anywhere close to such epics as the Wheel of Time, ASOIAF, or Stormlight, but I found it pretty decent.

Revan, you appear to be the Joe Abercrombie champion. How do the three standalones in the same universe compare to the original trilogy, and have you read his Half trilogy?
 
DMacgraw said:
I really liked the Fool in Farseer, but she became my favorite character after the Liveship trilogy. I was disappointed in Tawny Man with the final resolution with respect to her.
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Is Fool a 'he' or a 'she'? Has this actually ever be confirmed? I think not.

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I liked it too. The part in book 2 where Starling Birdsong sings is my favourite. I felt so happy for Fitz.
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Fitz's reveal is arguably the best moment in the entire saga.

DMacgraw said:
Finished the First Law trilogy.

On the whole, I liked it.The first book was rather slow, and featured some wretched characters, not one of whom I cared for. But I got to understand the characters better in the second book, and thought most of the story lines were well resolved in the end.

I don't think it is anywhere close to such epics as the Wheel of Time, ASOIAF, or Stormlight, but I found it pretty decent.

Revan, you appear to be the Joe Abercrombie champion. How do the three standalones in the same universe compare to the original trilogy, and have you read his Half trilogy?
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The first two standalones are the best books Abercrombie has written. I kind of agree with you about the First law, the first book was a bit boring and slow, with the writing being here and there. Each book becomes better than the other though, with the third one being easily the best from the trilogy. Saying that, the jump from 'The Last Argument of Kings' to 'Best Served Cold' (the first standalone book) is as high as the jump from 'The Blade Itself' to 'The Last Argument of Kings'. Seriously, Best Served Cold is amazing, one of the best fantasy books, full stop. And 'The Heroes' is almost as good as 'Best Served Cold'. The third standalone is a bit weaker though, probably in the level of the second trilogy book.

The Shattered Sea trilogy (Half trilogy :p ) is quite good, but it is a bit more juvenile. I think that it is definitely worthy to be read, and the writing there is excellent (even better than in standalone books where it was quite good too), and on Father Yarvi you have a fantastic character. I would say read first the three standalones (and the collection of short stories which is hilarious) and then jump to Half trilogy.

....

Currently reading the Red Queen's trilogy from Mark Lawrence. Quite interesting, although not as good as the main trilogy (Thorns trilogy). Jalan isn't as good a character as Jorg, but it is quite interesting and very different to him. Would like to see if there are many occasions where the trilogies meet each other.
 
Guys, time to do another one of this (I am downloading something at work, so it counts that I am working right now). Rate your top fantasy sagas (put as many as you want in the list).

1. A Song of Ice and Fire *
2. The Wheel of Time

3. The First Law (including standalones) *
4. The Kingskiller Chronicles *
5. The Realm of the Elderlings
6. The Black Company
7. Gentleman Bastards *
8. The Stormlight Archive *
9. The Lord of the Rings

10. The Witcher
11. The Broken Empire & The Red Queen's War
12. The Second Apocalypse *
13. Long Price Quartet
14. Mistborn *
15. The Shattered Sea
16. Lightbringer *
17. Tales of the Ketty Jay

18. Raven's Shadow
19. The Acts of Caine
20. Acacia

Spaces divide tiers, and the rating of the sagas between tiers depends on the mood of the moment.

* Ongoing, so depending on the rest of books it can be higher or lower.

NB: Mistborn would have been much higher (probably even on the second tier) if it was only the original trilogy. The First Law would have been on the third tier if it weren't for the standalones.
 
I never understood how the Wheel of Time manages to get so high on so many lists. I acknowledge its significance in the genre: The depth and the scale of the world and its history are amazing, the magical system is very well analyzed and Jordan does have a story to tell, at least up to a point. But the characters are intorelable, all of them, they are 20 year olds who are written like they are 8-12 yo and the way any relationship between genders is written makes Harry Potter look like a classic from the age of romanticism. The bad guys, despite their fancy names, never really look threatening at all and the gender reversal thing starts out as a very promising idea but it quickly loses any charm it has through repetition and bad writing. And while i never had a thing for "clean endings", the lack of any kind of resolution and the throwing away of almost all moral compasses after 14 books and some thousand pages is a big minus for me. Last but not least, it has the only "good guy" in all the books i've read that actually made me throw the book against the wall.

Besides that it's a very good list, Revan. The absence of Malazan is criminal (in my humble opinion) and i'd never put anything Sanderson has written very high on my list but, in general, this is damn good list.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I never understood how the Wheel of Time manages to get so high on so many lists. I acknowledge its significance in the genre: The depth and the scale of the world and its history are amazing, the magical system is very well analyzed and Jordan does have a story to tell, at least up to a point. But the characters are intorelable, all of them, they are 20 year olds who are written like they are 8-12 yo and the way any relationship between genders is written makes Harry Potter look like a classic from the age of romanticism. The bad guys, despite their fancy names, never really look threatening at all and the gender reversal thing starts out as a very promising idea but it quickly loses any charm it has through repetition and bad writing. And while i never had a thing for "clean endings", the lack of any kind of resolution and the throwing away of almost all moral compasses after 14 books and some thousand pages is a big minus for me. Last but not least, it has the only "good guy" in all the books i've read that actually made me throw the book against the wall.

Besides that it's a very good list, Revan. The absence of Malazan is criminal (in my humble opinion) and i'd never put anything Sanderson has written very high on my list but, in general, this is damn good list.
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I totally agree that the characters are a bit meh (totally agree with the 'they are 20 year olds who are written like they are 8-12 yo'), and the gender relationship was done wrongly (despite that it started quite well). Saying that, I totally loved some of the secondary characters and ironically they were done very well. Moiraine might be my favorite character in the genre, Lan was awesome too, as was Siuane. Mat became quite good in the second half of the saga, while Perry was alright from the beginning. Despite that many people criticized her, I had a soft spot for Egwene too. I think that Rand and Elayne were probably the worst despite that they were the best main characters at the first few books.

I disagree with the 'clean ending' part, I liked the ending and thought that it was a resolution for most of the story archs.

Do not agree to much with the Forsaken, they were threatening until Rand levelled up too much. They were still quite threatening against the other main crew.

I think that my love for Wheel of Time is similar to that for the Star Wars. They're a bit juvenile, characters could have been done much better, there are a million things that don't make sense, but I still love it. I don't pretend that it is anywhere as good as ASOIAF for example, but I like it almost as ASOIAF.

...

I have yet to read Malazan. But I should do it, and I will do it, considering that I am running out of other top sagas.
 
Not sure I've even read 20 fantasy series, but from what I have done, the ones I can remember enjoying were

  1. Book of the New Sun - by a long way
  2. LOTR
  3. Kingkiller chronicles
  4. Broken Empire
  5. Memory, Sorrow & Thorn
  6. Thomas Covenant
  7. Magician

Been a while since I read some of these, so am going from how much I enjoyed them then, rather than how much Id probably enjoy them now. Magician, for instance, I loved when I first read through them, but I think they were pretty cheesy from what I can recall.

I'm a few books into the Malazan series, which are amazing and will be near the top if they're all as good as the 2 and a half I've read so far, but I'm always slightly wary of these umpteen book series, they never seem to sustain the quality.
 
Revan said:
I totally agree that the characters are a bit meh (totally agree with the 'they are 20 year olds who are written like they are 8-12 yo'), and the gender relationship was done wrongly (despite that it started quite well). Saying that, I totally loved some of the secondary characters and ironically they were done very well. Moiraine might be my favorite character in the genre, Lan was awesome too, as was Siuane. Mat became quite good in the second half of the saga, while Perry was alright from the beginning. Despite that many people criticized her, I had a soft spot for Egwene too. I think that Rand and Elayne were probably the worst despite that they were the best main characters at the first few books.

I disagree with the 'clean ending' part, I liked the ending and thought that it was a resolution for most of the story archs.

Do not agree to much with the Forsaken, they were threatening until Rand levelled up too much. They were still quite threatening against the other main crew.

I think that my love for Wheel of Time is similar to that for the Star Wars. They're a bit juvenile, characters could have been done much better, there are a million things that don't make sense, but I still love it. I don't pretend that it is anywhere as good as ASOIAF for example, but I like it almost as ASOIAF.

...

I have yet to read Malazan. But I should do it, and I will do it, considering that I am running out of other top sagas.
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I think it's a common thing among those who really love the series and i totally get it. I guess that, if Jordan had started wrapping it up after A Crown of Swords, i would rate it higher myself. After that it takes a different turn, most of the main characters are already in places of absolute power and from that point on who will be groveling at whose feet seems more impartant than the LB itself.

In that sense the series didn't provide me with a "sense of an ending" on an emotional level. For example, the fact that i went through 11000 words to learn that the AS would find themselves in their most powerful position since the Breaking of the World was irritating.

I agree with you about Rand and Elayne and some of the secondary characters (especially Thom). I appreciated Moiraine more after i read New Spring, i feel that there's a lot of wasted potential in Lan and Padan Fain (or whatever names he got later on) but i never liked Egwene although, in Jordan's circular view of history where prophecies are dead certain to be realized, her story/fate is probably as tragic as Rand's.

Just a friendly advice, when you start Malazan don't stop after Gardens of the Moon. It's a pain in the arse to finish it but the whole series is definitely worth it.
 
I guess Hobb deliberately left the gender of the fool vague, so each reader would decide which suits them. For me, I find it impossible to believe that the Fool shared a cabin with 3 other women (in the Liveship Traders trilogy) for months, and not one of these women considered her anything but a woman. Yeah, pull my other foot. I point to the fact that all the women in the saga, starting with Starling, are convinced that she is woman. I find Fitz incredibly dense that he persisted in thinking of the Fool as a man, despite strong evidence to the contrary, only because he first saw her when she was pretending to be a boy, and chose to believe that superficial appearance and common tavern gossip rather than the evidence of women who have actually seen the Fool undressed, as it were.
 
Thanks, Revan. I'll start on the three standalones right away. I had some misgivings about starting Best Served Cold because the blurb made me think it was about Black Dow, one of the, if not the most reprehensible killer in the First Law, a man with absolutely no redeeming qualities as far as I could see.

I called his second series the Half trilogy because that is the way I remember it ... each book has the title 'Half a ------'.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I never understood how the Wheel of Time manages to get so high on so many lists. I acknowledge its significance in the genre: The depth and the scale of the world and its history are amazing, the magical system is very well analyzed and Jordan does have a story to tell, at least up to a point. But the characters are intorelable, all of them, they are 20 year olds who are written like they are 8-12 yo and the way any relationship between genders is written makes Harry Potter look like a classic from the age of romanticism. The bad guys, despite their fancy names, never really look threatening at all and the gender reversal thing starts out as a very promising idea but it quickly loses any charm it has through repetition and bad writing. And while i never had a thing for "clean endings", the lack of any kind of resolution and the throwing away of almost all moral compasses after 14 books and some thousand pages is a big minus for me. Last but not least, it has the only "good guy" in all the books i've read that actually made me throw the book against the wall.
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The Wheel of Time has its flaws, some of which you state very well. I myself admit to a sense of crushing disappointment at the end of the series because of your observation about throwing away all moral compasses*. and for someone read who had read each book (except the last one) multiple times, had a website devoted to the series, and participated in the rasfw-rj forum, I have not re-picked up the final book since my initial read. Nevertheless, the Wheel of Time is also outstanding, for all the reasons you list in your second sentence. You might consider that the vast majority of people who rank the WoT so high consider that, to them, your second sentence outweighs the rest.
*I couldn't get over the fact that Jordan left the Seanchan, an empire built on the enslavement of women, in by far the strongest position and poised to take over dominance in the world after the Final Battle.
 
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TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
The absence of Malazan is criminal (in my humble opinion)
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My comments below are not directed specifically at you, RedDevil'sAdvocate, but at a common sentiment expressed by Malazan fans that I've come across over and over on different fantasy forums.

In my own humble opinion, the Malazan Book of the Fallen, and its companion ICE series is the most pretentious fantasy series its been my misfortune to read. I call it pretentious because the followers delight in feeling superior because they have managed to read and enjoy a dense nearly incomprehensible series where every single character spends pages sitting around thinking deep philosophical thoughts, where events in a given book frequently make no sense until several books later.

Let me be clear, I've read all ten books in the Malazan series plus the first four ICE books at least twice each, plus the first four Bauchelain and Korbal Broach books. i consider some individual books in the Malazan series outstanding; Memories of Ice is one of my favourite fantasy books ever, and I consider Deadhouse Gates the most harrowing and ultimately uplifting fantasy book I've ever read. But I consider the Malazan series as a whole far below other epic fantasies in terms of a well-told enjoyable story. In my view, Malazan fans are those who find great enjoyment in figuring out jigsaw puzzles, the kind of readers who makes meticulous notes as they go along and are ecstatic to find that a seemingly innocuous event in Book 3 refers to another set of events in Book 8. Those who are not that kind of fantasy reader, I suspect very strongly, would not enjoy the series quite as much. I have a major problem with Malazan fans who spend a lot of time on forums thrashing other peoples tastes (especially the Wheel of Time) and making out as if reading Malazan should be the apex of everyone's fantasy reading. Live and let live, I say.
In my view, Erikson takes the concept of "show, don't tell" to ridiculous levels. If you are brave enough to tackle the series, you might find yourself being 'shown' event after event that frequently make no sense and have no obvious connection; why these event are happening might not be apparent until a few books later. This type of storytelling might not be everyone's cup of tea, and those who enjoy that should not pretend that others who do not share that type of enjoyment are somehow less.
 
I concur with Revan about disagreeing with the Forsaken not being threatening. What became apparent pretty quickly was that each of the Forsaken had a specific assignment to take over one of the major nations in the world; neutralizing the Dragon Reborn was the responsibility of Ishamael, which was the focus of the first 3 books. The only Forsaken who went beyond his instructions (taking over Tear) was Belal, because he wanted to set a trap for Rand and get his hand on Callandor if Rand turned out to be, indeed, the DR. Belal's plot was foiled essentially by Moiraine balefiring him. And then not long after came the order from the DO to "Let the Lord of Chaos rule". In effect, the Forsaken were forbidden to attempt to kill or seriously interfere with Rand; they had their own duties to perform in preparation for the Last Battle.
 
@DMacgraw

I agree with most of the things you wrote in your three posts above. Just to make my self clear i'll say again that the WoT certainly deserves its place among the best fantasy series. I wouldn't place it very high on miy list but i would not dare leave it out either. As i mentioned Jordan has a good story to tell and this alone was enough for me to read all 15 books despite not really liking any of the main characters.

You're right about Malazan too when you say that it's a very difficult series to read through. The world is very complex and, unlike Jordan, Erikson just throws you in the pit and he basically tells you to figure it out yourself. But... most of the times your patience is rewarded which is my gripe with the WoT. The end didn't feel to me that it was worth it. But yeah, the "journey" towards the Last Battle is, as you say, a well told and enjoyable story.

By the way, i didn't know that there are/were Malazan "fanatics" bashing other fans of epic fantasy on the internet. That's just sad and if you had to deal with that stuff on a site you created out of love for your own favorite series, i guess you have every right to look at anyone who likes Malazan a little bit 'suspiciously'. Be sure that it wasn't my intention to sing Erikson's praises or preach about Malazan's superiority. I saw Revan's list and i found the absence of Malazan a bit odd because i pretty much agree with every one of his other choices. But then he posted that he hadn't read Malazan yet.
 
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I don't think the WoT characters are juvenile, it's just that we see inside their heads with an honesty that's often lacking in fantasy series. People engage in hypocrisy, emotional over-reacting, denial etc on a daily basis but we don't really get to see it because we can't read each other's minds.

Regarding the throwing away of a moral compass, I felt just the opposite. There were many moral themes during the series that frustrated me like Rand's overblown sense of chivalry, the emphasis on being 'tough', the nihilism that Lan, Rand and others seem to increasingly fall into. But in the final few books these are reversed and clarified quite nicely. I wish RJ could have done more to foreshadow that reversal, however.

Anyway, WoT is easily my favorite fantasy series so that might account for my differing point of view.
 
Hmmm.... Let me have a crack at this.
  1. A Song of Ice and Fire
  2. Wheel of Time
  3. Realm of the Elderlings
  4. Dresden Files
  5. KingKiller Chronicles
  6. Lord of the Rings
  7. The First Law Series
  8. Stormlight Archives
  9. Mistborn
  10. Broken Empire
Honorary mention to Harry Potter, the series that got me into the genre.


Re: Malazan - I have tried reading Gardens of Moon - Book #1 of Malazan twice now, and just couldn't get myself to finish it. Will try it once more sometime next year. If I still can't get into it to even finish the book then feck it.
 
Akshay said:
I don't think the WoT characters are juvenile, it's just that we see inside their heads with an honesty that's often lacking in fantasy series. People engage in hypocrisy, emotional over-reacting, denial etc on a daily basis but we don't really get to see it because we can't read each other's minds.

Regarding the throwing away of a moral compass, I felt just the opposite. There were many moral themes during the series that frustrated me like Rand's overblown sense of chivalry, the emphasis on being 'tough', the nihilism that Lan, Rand and others seem to increasingly fall into. But in the final few books these are reversed and clarified quite nicely. I wish RJ could have done more to foreshadow that reversal, however.

Anyway, WoT is easily my favorite fantasy series so that might account for my differing point of view.
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Just ahead of Animorphs, right :p
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
@DMacgraw

I agree with most of the things you wrote in your three posts above. Just to make my self clear i'll say again that the WoT certainly deserves its place among the best fantasy series. I wouldn't place it very high on miy list but i would not dare leave it out either. As i mentioned Jordan has a good story to tell and this alone was enough for me to read all 15 books despite not really liking any of the main characters.

You're right about Malazan too when you say that it's a very difficult series to read through. The world is very complex and, unlike Jordan, Erikson just throws you in the pit and he basically tells you to figure it out yourself. But... most of the times your patience is rewarded which is my gripe with the WoT. The end didn't feel to me that it was worth it. But yeah, the "journey" towards the Last Battle is, as you say, a well told and enjoyable story.

By the way, i didn't know that there are/were Malazan "fanatics" bashing other fans of epic fantasy on the internet. That's just sad and if you had to deal with that stuff on a site you created out of love for your own favorite series, i guess you have every right to look at anyone who likes Malazan a little bit 'suspiciously'. Be sure that it wasn't my intention to sing Erikson's praises or preach about Malazan's superiority. I saw Revan's list and i found the absence of Malazan a bit odd because i pretty much agree with every one of his other choices. But then he posted that he hadn't read Malazan yet.
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Even Mat?
 
Akshay said:
What's a Goa'uld?
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101-cotg3-amaunet-selects-shauri.jpg


Alien symbiotic race from the Stargate SG -1 series
 
DMacgraw said:
In my own humble opinion, the Malazan Book of the Fallen, and its companion ICE series is the most pretentious fantasy series its been my misfortune to read. I call it pretentious because the followers delight in feeling superior because they have managed to read and enjoy a dense nearly incomprehensible series where every single character spends pages sitting around thinking deep philosophical thoughts, where events in a given book frequently make no sense until several books later.
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Writing style notwithstanding, Malazan is the peak of fantasy world building. Nothing tops Malazan world. Nothing. Worlds of ASOIAF, WoT etc pale into comparison against Malazan world. The sheer score and span across realms, races and time is just breathtaking. It's like playing a free roaming fantasy game and the more you roam the more adventures you get. Ofc, it's difficult to cover these in any semblance of organization and the writing style is not exactly reader friendly. It's tedious to read and SE writes as if he dares the reader to try and able to follow him. Characters just jump in without background, multiple storylines which merge and divert at his will...as you rightly said, it's a puzzle to be put together...and one well worth if you stick it through.

I've read everything except the Korbal Broach books and can't wait for the next installments in Path to Ascendancy and Kharkanas trilogies.

DMacgraw said:
*I couldn't get over the fact that Jordan left the Seanchan, an empire built on the enslavement of women, in by far the strongest position and poised to take over dominance in the world after the Final Battle.
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Well, it's women enslaving other women.
 
Ratings may have changed from before based on my current mood ;) Not really comprehensive...will add to this later.


1. Malazan Book of the Fallen (Steven Erikson / ICE)
-
2. Wheel of Time (Robert Jordan)
3. A Song Of Ice And Fire (George RR Martin)
4. Lord of the Rings (JRR Tolkien)
5. Black Company (Glen Cook)
-
6. Kingkiller Chronicles (Patrick Rothfuss)
7. Stormlight Archives (Brandon Sanderson)
8. First Law Trilogy (Joe Abercrombie)
9. Dresden Files (Jim Butcher)
10. Mistborn (Brandon Sanderson)
11. Farseer / Tawny Man / Fitz and Fool (Robin Hobb)
12. Long Price Quartet (Daniel Abraham)
13. Tales of the Ketty Jay (Chris Wooding)
14. Night Angel (Brent Weeks)
15. Alloy of Law (Brandon Sanderson)
16. Broken Empire (Mark Lawrence)
17. Rivers of London (Peter Grant)

Unrated, but liked it:

1. City of Stairs (Robert Jackson Bennett)
2. Night Watch (Sergy Lukyanenko)
3. Powder Mage Trilogy (Brian McClellan)

Young Adult:

1. Harry Potter (JK Rowling)
2. Discworld (Terry Pratchett)
3. Drenai Saga (David Gemmell)
4. Magician (Raymond E Feist)
5. Bartimaeus Trilogy (Jonathan Stroud)
6. Inheritance Cycle (Trudi Canavan)
7. Chronicles of the Raven (James Barclay)
 
Akshay said:
I don't think the WoT characters are juvenile, it's just that we see inside their heads with an honesty that's often lacking in fantasy series. People engage in hypocrisy, emotional over-reacting, denial etc on a daily basis but we don't really get to see it because we can't read each other's minds.

Regarding the throwing away of a moral compass, I felt just the opposite. There were many moral themes during the series that frustrated me like Rand's overblown sense of chivalry, the emphasis on being 'tough', the nihilism that Lan, Rand and others seem to increasingly fall into. But in the final few books these are reversed and clarified quite nicely. I wish RJ could have done more to foreshadow that reversal, however.

Anyway, WoT is easily my favorite fantasy series so that might account for my differing point of view.
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I don't disagree that there were many moral themes in the series, but I still maintain that Jordan threw away whatever moral authority he had built up by not only arranging the world so that the evil empire built on enslaving women is left as the dominant force in the world, but he also co-opted some of the central characters (Mat, Min, etc) to be high officials in the evil empire.

Until the final book, I had the Wheel of Time as by far, by a huuuge margin, the best and most absorbing fantasy series I had ever read (and that includes ASOIAF, Malazan, Mistborn, etc.). The final book was a let-down for me (until the very last page I was hoping for some kind of resolution to change the Seanchan's evil ways), but on balance I would still rank tWoT as my No. 1.
 
DMacgraw said:
I don't disagree that there were many moral themes in the series, but I still maintain that Jordan threw away whatever moral authority he had built up by not only arranging the world so that the evil empire built on enslaving women is left as the dominant force in the world, but he also co-opted some of the central characters (Mat, Min, etc) to be high officials in the evil empire.

Until the final book, I had the Wheel of Time as by far, by a huuuge margin, the best and most absorbing fantasy series I had ever read (and that includes ASOIAF, Malazan, Mistborn, etc.). The final book was a let-down for me (until the very last page I was hoping for some kind of resolution to change the Seanchan's evil ways), but on balance I would still rank tWoT as my No. 1.
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Wasn't the crazy Empress (that would be Tuon) supposed to be less evil than the other Empresses before her? And with Mat as her husband you can see things going a bit better in the future. In addition, they signed a pact which meant that they cannot enslave the other women. And well, Avienddha did what she had to do to make the prophecy of Saenchan empire defeating all other empires not come true (with Aiel signing the Dragon's pact).

I don't think that Aiel being the most powerful country in the world was that big of a problem (they were that all along, probably only China - forgot their book name - was stronger and they were practically totally destroyed), especially considering that a new era came and now even males can channel.

I thought that the last book was awesome, to be fair. Read it in a night or so.
 
DMacgraw said:
I don't disagree that there were many moral themes in the series, but I still maintain that Jordan threw away whatever moral authority he had built up by not only arranging the world so that the evil empire built on enslaving women is left as the dominant force in the world, but he also co-opted some of the central characters (Mat, Min, etc) to be high officials in the evil empire.

Until the final book, I had the Wheel of Time as by far, by a huuuge margin, the best and most absorbing fantasy series I had ever read (and that includes ASOIAF, Malazan, Mistborn, etc.). The final book was a let-down for me (until the very last page I was hoping for some kind of resolution to change the Seanchan's evil ways), but on balance I would still rank tWoT as my No. 1.
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I think it is sad in the sense that every reader would have wanted the Seanchan brought to justice. However, I think it was also RJ's way of saying that you don't really get perfect endings to anything.

There is some hope for the Seanchan though
We know from the Dragon's Peace that the Aiel will have the role of peace-enforcers and this would probably succeed as it's supposed to contrast Aviendha's visions of the Aiel future from the ter'angreal in Rhuidean. So I don't think the Seanchan are going to conquer any further. Plus they have chaos back home due to Semirhage murdering the rest of the royal family so Tuon is inhering a fractured empire. Min also shows she's no pushover as Tuon's Truthspeaker. Lastly, Mat arranges a talk between Tuon and Hawking after Tarmon Gaidon, in which we're told Tuon doesn't like what she's hearing. I've no doubt Hawking has some difficult truths for her about the source of his Aes Sedai hatred and what the Seanchan have done with his legacy.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Writing style notwithstanding, Malazan is the peak of fantasy world building. Nothing tops Malazan world. Nothing. Worlds of ASOIAF, WoT etc pale into comparison against Malazan world. The sheer score and span across realms, races and time is just breathtaking. It's like playing a free roaming fantasy game and the more you roam the more adventures you get. Ofc, it's difficult to cover these in any semblance of organization and the writing style is not exactly reader friendly. It's tedious to read and SE writes as if he dares the reader to try and able to follow him. Characters just jump in without background, multiple storylines which merge and divert at his will...as you rightly said, it's a puzzle to be put together...and one well worth if you stick it through.
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Tastes differ, you know, and what appeals to you may not necessarily appeal to other people. I would have been more sympathetic if you had prefaced your declaration above with the statement that for you the above is true, but it may not be the same for other people. Yet, you state your opinion as if it were an objective incontrovertible fact. As I mentioned in an earlier post above, the highlighted statement above is only a mild form of the attitude I unfortunately encounter far too often from Malazan fans. I dare say only a small minority of fantasy fans want to have their reading entertainment in the form of a complex jigsaw puzzle to be laboriously assembled, which may be the reason the number of Malazan fans is dwarfed by the number of ASOIAF and WoT fans. The response of Malazan fans, to stridently declare at every opportunity that their series is the best and to denigrate the fans of other series is unfortunate. It seems to me that Malazan fans need to understand that what may be the peak of fantasy writing to them may very well be impenetrable pretentious rubbish for other types of fans, and tone down their attitude.
 
DMacgraw said:
Tastes differ, you know, and what appeals to you may not necessarily appeal to other people. I would have been more sympathetic if you had prefaced your declaration above with the statement that for you the above is true, but it may not be the same for other people. Yet, you state your opinion as if it were an objective incontrovertible fact. As I mentioned in an earlier post above, the highlighted statement above is only a mild form of the attitude I unfortunately encounter far too often from Malazan fans. I dare say only a small minority of fantasy fans want to have their reading entertainment in the form of a complex jigsaw puzzle to be laboriously assembled, which may be the reason the number of Malazan fans is dwarfed by the number of ASOIAF and WoT fans. The response of Malazan fans, to stridently declare at every opportunity that their series is the best and to denigrate the fans of other series is unfortunate. It seems to me that Malazan fans need to understand that what may be the peak of fantasy writing to them may very well be impenetrable pretentious rubbish for other types of fans, and tone down their attitude.
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Well in a forum, posts are opinions of the posters. I think posting "Imo" before posts is kinda redundant.

And I think you misread my post. It was a comment specifically on world building, not on the fantasy book series.

To reiterate my post, I have agreed with you that the writing style is not user friendly and jigsawsing bits and pieces across books may not be to everyone's tastes. Even I found it daunting and had to compel myself to push through some segments. So I prefaced my comment with "writing style notwithstanding...". If you forget the plot/story and just look at world building as a standalone, Malazan still stands heads above the rest. The sheer scope of world, races, characters, timelines...I've not come across any other fantasy world that compares to it scale, richness and complexity.
 
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