Fans wilfully accept or won’t even acknowledge Sir Alex Ferguson’s ongoing influence at Manchester United.

United's biggest problem is the job for the boys mentality. It exists among the 'accountant' side of our football club (ie the University of Bristol guys) and also SAF's former players club. FFS Fletcher had 2 promotions in 6 months.

In my opinion we should go for the best in the job. This club needs experience rather then people getting on the job training.
 
Nobody outside the club knows what's going on. Even ex players on TV probably make guesses based on their own experiences when they were playing. That's why there is no oracle who gets even 90% of the stuff right.
 
Tavern in the town said:
There isn’t a single person on the forum who knows how much (if any) influence Fergie still has on the decisions that are made within the club. Stop getting upset about hypothetical situations you’ve made up in your own head.
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Revaulx said:
Well he is on the board, though I imagine his role is largely ceremonial. So he’s perfectly entitled to give whatever advice he wants. It’s entirely a matter for the executive board members as to whether they heed his advice or not.

Making comments in public concerning the day to day management of the team is indeed unhelpful, and he shouldn’t be doing that.
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Re; the Ronaldo starting thing - I got the impression SAF thought he was having a private conversation and the third party took it to the press. I’d imagine he was as annoyed as the rest of us and a little embarrassed too.
 
Yep. Fergie is clearly running the show - exemplified by the fact that we don't look anything like any of his Man Utd sides. Very clever strategy, make every key decision in such a way that the team looks less and less like a Ferguson side. That way no one knows that it's really him that is behind the downfall of Man Utd. Genius.

Stop blaming Fergie for our board being incompetent.
 
Abraxas said:
The Fletcher and Phelan ones makes a bit of sense in that it's easy to see the connection that is being made. If we were looking to appoint the best in class to a role, they undoubtedly would not form part of that equation in terms of recent success or simply CV in Fletcher's case.

So then you start to ask why they were appointed and it's a fairly easy idea to bring up Ferguson. However, I think you have to bring a bit more nuance to this point as it's clear that it was Ole's idea to bring in Phelan, so you then have to argue that Sir Alex had significant weight in his appointment and then by extension in Phelan's appointment.

However, this is not clear because Ole was appointed on the back of what was supposed to be a short term gig, so you could say that was Woodward's reactionary decision making. Appointing Ole as interim may be a vestige of a fairly sentimental approach, to be sure, but it isn't directly Ferguson's fault.

On the players, namely McTominay and DeGea, I simply do not see how it makes any sense to say that a manager that left a decade ago is responsible for their inclusion in a first team. We have had various managers that continually land on these players. That is a reflection of the merits of the squad and decision making, I think it's an extraordinarily tenuous link to Sir Alex. Baffling actually. It seems like you kind of had an idea and then consumed a few too many whiskeys as it developed.
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But what huge experience other than being a player who’s been through the route himself, should Darren Fletcher need to get on with his job of making sure there is a pathway to the first team squad for the young players?
 
If only he was running things at board level.

Everyone is too obsessed with who the manager is, it will barely change anything whoever it is.

If SAF had any significant influence behind the scenes there's no way he'd have let us fall so far behind Liverpool and City in every aspect of the club.
 
I actually do think his influence is likely a problem. I don’t think he’s likely to be pushy about it and acting like the Godfather but I think his opinion carries weight still as it should and that leads to influencing some decisions.

The problem is that he’s likely forming his opinion on snippets of data compared to what he used to form them on so it’s more of a casual opinion from a professional than a professional opinion from a casual. What the club needs is everyone on the same page pulling in the same direction and someone who can listen to his opinion and recognise when he’s just shared something enlightening that can fit within the clubs current parameters and when he’s said something that might have worked when he was a manager but would be difficult to find value in under the current structure.
 
devilish said:
United's biggest problem is the job for the boys mentality. It exists among the 'accountant' side of our football club (ie the University of Bristol guys) and also SAF's former players club. FFS Fletcher had 2 promotions in 6 months.

In my opinion we should go for the best in the job. This club needs experience rather then people getting on the job training.
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So are you saying the main problem we have is that the people running the club who are not proper football people ie ''the account side'' and also ex players ie ''proper football people'' like Fletcher and Phelan having prominent positions at the club?


Ludens the Red said:
:lol:
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;)
 
stevoc said:
So are you saying the main problem we have is that the people running the club who are not proper football people ie ''the account side'' and also ex players ie ''proper football people'' like Fletcher and Phelan having prominent positions at the club?




;)
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I think that our biggest problem is people getting into senior jobs and having zero experience in it. Take Ole's time as an example. We had Woodward who had no experience as a CEO in a top football club, Judge whose got no experience as head of contract negotiations, Murtough who had no experience as DOF, Fletcher who had no experience as technical director, Ole and most of his coaching staff who had failed at Cardiff + Carrick and Mckenna whose had no experience as no 2. Everyone was on the job learning. That's madness.
 
The Oracle said:
David De Gea
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then David De Gea will always be a first team regular for Utd.
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This De Gea point is utter nonsense and top conspiracy. De Gea is the current goalkeeper because:

1) He was the best goalkeeper in the league, possibly in the world, and got offered a new contract
2) Real Madrid were going to buy him but there was a famous problem where they couldn't process it in time. Did Fergie intervene there and break the fax machine too? This was all set to happen, De Gea had been dropped by Van Gaal and everyone expected it to happen.
3) He signed a massive contract, one of the biggest for a goalkeeper, which was suitable for his contribution to the team.
4) He then lost form drastically, but still had the big contract.
5) Nobody was interested in buying an out of form, expensive keeper. The club had to persist and hope he got better because they'd put so much money into him and he was unsellable.
6) He regained his form this season and deserves to play, that has nothing to do with Ferguson and is probably top 3 best players this season.
 
Woe is us, we have a good goalkeeper because of Fergie? I'm so angry
 
I would be interested to know or to try to understand what conspiracy theories there are, for Sir Alex in terms of his supposed on going influence(s), with regards to the women's side of things......

What has he done to influence anything there??
 
golden_blunder said:
But what huge experience other than being a player who’s been through the route himself, should Darren Fletcher need to get on with his job of making sure there is a pathway to the first team squad for the young players?
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Is that his job? Or is his job to decide which players should be on the pathway to the first team squad?
And even if it is his job, seems like there'd be someone available with more experience than, "this is the way I did it, back in the day".
 
devilish said:
I think that our biggest problem is people getting into senior jobs and having zero experience in it. Take Ole's time as an example. We had Woodward who had no experience as a CEO in a top football club, Judge whose got no experience as head of contract negotiations, Murtough who had no experience as DOF,
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It's fairly common for businesses to promote people from within, Woodward had been at the club for almost a decade before becoming CEO. Most people consider Gill and excellent CEO yet he also was also promoted from within and had no experience prior to succeeding Kenyon (who was himself promoted from within with no prior experience of being a CEO at a football club).

I think you get my point here mate. How many top clubs actually hire a CEO who has been a CEO at another top club? Can you name many?

devilish said:
Fletcher who had no experience as technical director, Ole and most of his coaching staff who had failed at Cardiff + Carrick and Mckenna whose had no experience as no 2. Everyone was on the job learning. That's madness.
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Aren't we just doing what other top clubs do though?

Juve, Bayern, Ajax, Barcelona etc. all have ex players in prominent positions at their clubs, did Van Der Sar, Kahn, Nedved, Jordi Cruyff or Zidane etc. have extensive experience before taking up positions at their form clubs?
 
I bet Fergiie does offer suggestions over a glass of red wine. But the structure is so rotten that we are now looking to blame it on Fergie.

Pretty sure Ferguson is hurting as much as us fans to see Woodward etc push us towards obscurity. Man Utd has lost its identity and Fergie has not got anything to do with it!
 
steffyr2 said:
Is that his job? Or is his job to decide which players should be on the pathway to the first team squad?
And even if it is his job, seems like there'd be someone available with more experience than, "this is the way I did it, back in the day".
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Well butt did a great job on it too and he had less experience than Fletcher

his job is well documented online, hell the chap even has to come out and clarify it in public since Ralph’s comment
 
Highly speculative threads like this come across as childish, as it seems like another (understandably) sour fan just trying to find more things to pin the club's failings on. Except unlike things like coaching and recruitment which we can all see are faulty, most of what is in the OP is speculation/wishful thinking. Leave the man alone.
 
DeGea’sFeet said:
David De Gea. To all the fans that think De Gea is a problem. Put Allison or Ederson in our team over the past 7 years and you’ll realise, De Gea is the better keeper. Put De Gea in city or Liverpool and you’ll realise his distribution isn’t as bad as you think, while there’s might be better, De Gea’s saves would pay off more.
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Yes, I'm not exactly convinced about the de gea criticism. A few weeks in our team and Allison or ederson would soon be focusing on shot stopping!
 
Revaulx said:
Interesting! The Doc did have previous for making stuff up though.

I’m sure O’Farrell had already spent over £200k on Storey-Moore, at a time when there was no question that he was interfering.
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The story does change in the telling, but only the amount. Doc always insisted that he was blocked by Matt. I know he wanted to sign Tony Currie from Sheffield United but the board wouldn't pay the asking price. Pity because he was a heck of a good player.
 
The Oracle said:
Hear me out before diving in.


There are a mixture of staff and players currently at Manchester United that are often questioned by fans as to why they are at the club, and why their roles are seemingly untouchable.
I am going to talk about two players, and two members of staff.
It is my opinion that the 4 people I am going to mention, continue to be at the club because of the influence that Sir Alex Ferguson still has (despite his role being a non-executive member of the board).


Darren Fletcher
It is very telling that Ralf Rangnick doesn’t even know what Fletcher’s role is at Man Utd. Just look at what Ralf said back in February of this year:
“What is his role in with regard to the club? I don't really know, to be honest.”

According to Rio Ferdinand:
“Darren Fletcher was Sir Alex Ferguson’s pet,” Ferdinand said on BT Sport. “He was around the house for Sunday lunch. I never saw it, but that’s the rumours. Fletch never got a bollocking ever."

How long will Fletcher remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then Darren Fletcher will always have a role at the club.


Mike Phelan
Phelan was Sir Alex’s assistant between 2008 and 2013. He was also a first team coach during Solskjær’s tenure, and remained at the club even after Solskjær’s departure. Phelan is currently the assistant manager to Ralf.

How long will Phelan remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then Phelan will always have a role at the club.


Scott McTominay
Sir Alex convinced McTominay to choose Scotland over England at International level.
Speaking to The Herald newspaper in May 2018, McTominay said:
"After the memorial service for the Munich Disaster earlier this year he (Sir Alex Ferguson) pulled me aside and told me: 'Make sure you do play for Scotland.' ”
McTominay would go on to choose to play for Scotland over England.

That kind of loyalty would have been greatly appreciated by Sir Alex. Is it any wonder why McTominay continues to be a first team regular despite his often poor performances?
If we are to challenge for trophies again anytime soon, then Scott McTominay cannot be a regular starter in Manchester United’s midfield. He simply isn’t good enough.

How long will Scott McTominay remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then Scott McTominay will always be a first team regular in Utd’s midfield.


David De Gea
Signed by Sir Alex because of a fear of missing out on another ‘Petr Cech’.
Speaking shortly after De Gea’s arrival to the club, Sir Alex said in July 2011:
“I went to see Petr Cech when he was at Rennes. He was 19 at the time and I said to myself, ‘yeah, he’s too young’. But Chelsea bought him not long afterwards for £7 million or something and he’s never been out of the team.”

When looking at the four main facets of goalkeeping (shot-stopping, distribution, collecting crosses/command of area, organising defence), it is very easy to see that De Gea only excels at shot-stopping.
If we are to challenge for trophies again anytime soon, then we seriously need to identify a goalkeeper who excels at more than just shot-stopping.

How long will De Gea remain at the club?
In my opinion, as long as Sir Alex remains on the board of Directors, then David De Gea will always be a first team regular for Utd.


Accepting the influence that Sir Alex continues to have at Manchester United
From my own point of view Sir Alex has a lot of credit in the bank, and I mean a lot of credit. Some would even argue he has an unlimited amount of credit.
What Sir Alex Ferguson did for Manchester United in terms of the fantastic teams he built time and time again, and the success he brought; means that I accept his influence that he continues to have – despite (in my opinion) that influence being detrimental to the direction that we the fans want the club to go in, i.e. challenging for and winning trophies.


What are your thoughts on the influence that our greatest ever manager continues to have at the club?
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Ralf himself clarified what Fletcher was doing with him on the 1st team side of things and said he hasnt got involved in the other side you have willfully cropped this whole quote to serve this weird agenda
 
Why would Ferguson want a manager coming in and winning back to back European Cups after he'd stepped down?
Rio Ferdinand came out with a very interesting and honest admission a few months ago when he said part of him wants United to fail now so he is achievements won't be diminished and that players think like that. Is it really beyond the realms of possibility that Ferguson chose Moyes to protect his own legacy? People are selfish, even great people.
Not saying that's the case but it is a realistic possibility. Anyone who's read Michael Crick's book on Ferguson will know that he can be an unsavoury character.
 
I feel like it was the same shite with Liverpool and their “boot room” in the 90s up to Brenton who kind of bought into it too. Klopp plays up to the fans but make no mistake, there is nothing left to sentimentality in his approach to recruitment - staff and playing staff, match preparation or team selection. It’s all modern and cutting edge. If the players aren’t playing flat out for him they get dropped, if they want to leave they can. None of this playing a player into form while he walks around trying to figure out if he loves the game anymore. He’s happy to sell and reinvest at the first signs of disinterest. Actual ruthless squad management to keep players on their toes. What we have here is a squad managing the managers and the board managing the squad. It’s a shitshow. Organisational failure and the biggest waste of money the sport has ever witnessed
 
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stevoc said:
It's fairly common for businesses to promote people from within, Woodward had been at the club for almost a decade before becoming CEO. Most people consider Gill and excellent CEO yet he also was also promoted from within and had no experience prior to succeeding Kenyon (who was himself promoted from within with no prior experience of being a CEO at a football club).

I think you get my point here mate. How many top clubs actually hire a CEO who has been a CEO at another top club? Can you name many?



Aren't we just doing what other top clubs do though?

Juve, Bayern, Ajax, Barcelona etc. all have ex players in prominent positions at their clubs, did Van Der Sar, Kahn, Nedved, Jordi Cruyff or Zidane etc. have extensive experience before taking up positions at their form clubs?
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Let's start from the second point first. I think it would be a mistake to compare the EPL with the Bundesliga/Dutch league. The former is highly competitive were every advantage no matter how small does matter while the latter two are basically a one horse race were even donkeys like De Boer can win not 1 but 4 league titles. I concede that I don't follow the Spanish league enough to talk about it but I am well versed in the Serie A.

The Italian clubs tend to work with a hybrid system were they hire from within and from the outside. Take Juventus golden age as an example. Sure they had Conte and Nedved but the decisions were taken by Marotta (who had a CV as a CEO which is as long as an arm) and Paratici who was Marotta's man having worked with him at Sampdoria. Milan follow a similar trait. There's Maldini (although to compare Maldini to Fletcher is ridiculous considering that Paolo was 100 times the player Fletcher was, he had previous experience with Miami FC + the Maldinis had been involved in running Milan since the 70s and Paolo has been basically been within the structure since he was born). However they do have experience from the outside. For example their Director of Sports Federic Massara has been an assistant manager at various clubs before moving as a director first at Palermo, then at Roma and then finally at Milan, Paolo Scaroni had a similar role to what he currently cover with Vicenza while Gazidis had a wide experience in football including with Arsenal.

Secondly these clubs had a history of developing football people outside the pitch from Ancelotti to Conte right to Capello and Zidane. United had never produced a top manager from within. I follow our former players quite closely and you only need to hear the likes of Keane and the Neville brothers speak to figure out while they tanked big time as managers.

Finally these club can be incredibly cynical as well. For example Ciro Ferrara is a Juventus legend but they sacked him after just 8 months. Can you see that with United? FFS Ole threw 420m in the bin (or most of it) and won nothing and yet we kept him in his job for so long

I have nothing against hiring former players as long as they are competent and had proven themselves within a successful system. However what we've got at United is anything but that. We've got a system which is a mess and yet people keep getting promoted within it. Its like we're rewarding failure.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Re; the Ronaldo starting thing - I got the impression SAF thought he was having a private conversation and the third party took it to the press. I’d imagine he was as annoyed as the rest of us and a little embarrassed too.
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Oh I’m sure you’re right.

Given his experience with the press over the decades, I’m still surprised he wasn’t more careful!
 
Moriarty said:
The story does change in the telling, but only the amount. Doc always insisted that he was blocked by Matt. I know he wanted to sign Tony Currie from Sheffield United but the board wouldn't pay the asking price. Pity because he was a heck of a good player.
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Indeed. I was gutted when he went to Leeds. He’d have been the perfect player for our team at the time.
 
Revaulx said:
Indeed. I was gutted when he went to Leeds. He’d have been the perfect player for our team at the time.
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We were linked with so many players back then. There was Tony Green at Blackpool, Malcolm McDonald at Luton (both went to Newcastle) and later, there was Alan Hudson, who ended up at Stoke. How much of that was paper talk, I don't know but I believe that some of those players said, in later years, that United had made enquiries about them. One player I wanted us to sign was Liam Brady. We got his mate Frank Stapleton but Brady might have won us the league.

There was a lot of talk about us signing Dalglish from Celtic just after the 1977 cup win. Rumour was he was keen on the move but the Doc got sacked and he signed for the dippers, much to the disgust of the Celtic fans. Admittedly, he went on to great things with Liverpool but had the Doc stayed, he might have picked up a title or three with us.
 
golden_blunder said:
But what huge experience other than being a player who’s been through the route himself, should Darren Fletcher need to get on with his job of making sure there is a pathway to the first team squad for the young players?
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Sure, if that is his job. However that doesn't seem totally clear at this moment in time. What they are saying his job is and his current activity around the first team seem to diverge.
 
Abraxas said:
Sure, if that is his job. However that doesn't seem totally clear at this moment in time. What they are saying his job is and his current activity around the first team seem to diverge.
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That’s because in the absence of coaches since carrick and McKenna left, he’s been asked to fill the gap as well as do his normal job
 
golden_blunder said:
That’s because in the absence of coaches since carrick and McKenna left, he’s been asked to fill the gap as well as do his normal job
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That would make a bit of sense, slightly odd Ralf wouldn't know about one of his own coaches though! I'm not sure what that says about the internal communication.

I don't buy the whole premise anyway. I was just getting at the fact that a very tenuous connection can be drawn between Sir Alex and Fletcher/Phelan in a roundabout way. It's not very convincing compared to the idea they simply leverage a connection with the club. But compared to the idea that Alex is getting DeGea and McTominay in the team it is rock solid.
 
All speculation. He fecked up by picking moyes but that mistake was quickly fixed . Everything since then is on the owners, the board members, managers and players.
 
Abraxas said:
That would make a bit of sense, slightly odd Ralf wouldn't know about one of his own coaches though! I'm not sure what that says about the internal communication.

I don't buy the whole premise anyway. I was just getting at the fact that a very tenuous connection can be drawn between Sir Alex and Fletcher/Phelan in a roundabout way. It's not very convincing compared to the idea they simply leverage a connection with the club. But compared to the idea that Alex is getting DeGea and McTominay in the team it is rock solid.
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McTominay wouldn’t even have been in the team if not for the fact that Jose took used him to make a point after he spurted some growth
 
Abraxas said:
That would make a bit of sense, slightly odd Ralf wouldn't know about one of his own coaches though! I'm not sure what that says about the internal communication.

I don't buy the whole premise anyway. I was just getting at the fact that a very tenuous connection can be drawn between Sir Alex and Fletcher/Phelan in a roundabout way. It's not very convincing compared to the idea they simply leverage a connection with the club. But compared to the idea that Alex is getting DeGea and McTominay in the team it is rock solid.
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There’s actually documented proof - Fletcher had to come out in public and clarify what his job was after Ralph opened his gob.
the thing as far as I can see is that he’s called technical director by the club but very little of his job is related to what every other club would understand as a technical director. He’s not. His main focus is on getting youth involved with the first team
 
You know things have gone to pot here when we’re dragging Fergie. His only mistake was picking Moyes, which we rectified in due time. He’s literally an 80 year old man, so something tells me Woodward and now Arnold have not been banging his door down over official decisions, and vice-versa. I’m 99% sure the man just wants to live the rest of his wonderful life out with Cathy by watching United, drinking wine and betting on horses.
 
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