Yes true but for me he has never been a quality player. I will tell you why as well. When he played most of the time he turns away from the play when he gets the ball. That shows that he needed that extra second to think as to what he needs to do with the ball. I raised this point then too. Top players know what they are going to do with it by the time they receive the ball.
Fans wilfully accept or won’t even acknowledge Sir Alex Ferguson’s ongoing influence at Manchester United.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Yes true but for me he has never been a quality player. I will tell you why as well. When he played most of the time he turns away from the play when he gets the ball. That shows that he needed that extra second to think as to what he needs to do with the ball. I raised this point then too. Top players know what they are going to do with it by the time they receive the ball.
Murtough and Fletcher are apparently leading the interviews for the next manager, just as they did for the interim manager.
Given that Fletcher is a Fergie stooge, that must mean that both Rangnick and Ten Hag are Ferguson appointments.
Given that Fletcher is a Fergie stooge, that must mean that both Rangnick and Ten Hag are Ferguson appointments.
Well Murtough is said to have three things prior to become DOF. He was involved in the women's team and in restructuring the academy. He also was very involved in restructuring the recruitment department which was felt heavily particularly during Mou last year (which caused his unhappiness) and afterwards. On the former, Casey Stoney resigned due to how ridiculously bad planned their facilities were. Players were unable to shower in between training and meals before makeshift portacabins were installed while the nearest toilets were a 10-minute walk from their training pitch. Meanwhile their gym was also in a tented facility. Regarding the academy, Murtough took a side who just won the U21 title in 2012. That league was dissolved but years later and despite Murtough's magic we're still massively lagging behind in terms of the U18 (5th place and 18 points away from City) and the U23 (4th place and 13 points away from City). The least said about transfers the better. We spent around 420m on obvious signings most of whom aren't up to scratch.
As DOF Murtough probably had a hand in Ole's appointment as permanent, Fletcher's meteor rise (2 promotions in 6 months), us insisting on Ole despite the horrendous results, the lack of transfers in January which basically doomed this season and of course the fact that the new manager's process dragged for months like most things with United really. Rangnick whose got a football experience stretching for decades doesn't even know what our technical director actually do. But my argument isn't even that. I fail to understand why we keep promoting from within when its evident that our system is crap and everyone is clueless.
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SAF ran this club for 26 years.
That had its positives aswell as it would have had its negatives.
Whilst different clubs adapted to different managers and different periods of the millennium - we always just stuck by one.
We are now starting to adapt with every failing manager we have and learning how to deal with its consequences as a club.
SAF’S view is not all that useful for us anymore even if it should always be respected.
That had its positives aswell as it would have had its negatives.
Whilst different clubs adapted to different managers and different periods of the millennium - we always just stuck by one.
We are now starting to adapt with every failing manager we have and learning how to deal with its consequences as a club.
SAF’S view is not all that useful for us anymore even if it should always be respected.
Hmm. I know what you mean but I’m not convinced it really harmed his play. His decision making was very good but maybe not particularly instinctive.
What is the craic with these daft conspiracies that seem to have landed in the Caf 
Phelan more likely gone, Carrick gone, Fergie apparent pick Poch is not in the job, Ole who was meant to be Fergie boy sacked as well, Moyes sacked didn't even get a season..........but Fergie got growing control and influence over the club.
Even him getting full blame for Moyes is mad too when he on record asking klopp and pep could they take over from him. Moyes was way down the list.
Disgusting the slander that gets threw at Fergie. Disgrace actually especially when people are trying to act smart and political and fingering Fergie for anything that has went wrong like he is some sort of overlord pulling the strings.
He nearly died, let him enjoy his retirement, and if people want his advice on issues then let him give him it. He earned that right.
People moan about lack of football people at the club, but nah he shouldn't be on the board. It's ridiculous.
Phelan more likely gone, Carrick gone, Fergie apparent pick Poch is not in the job, Ole who was meant to be Fergie boy sacked as well, Moyes sacked didn't even get a season..........but Fergie got growing control and influence over the club.
Even him getting full blame for Moyes is mad too when he on record asking klopp and pep could they take over from him. Moyes was way down the list.
Disgusting the slander that gets threw at Fergie. Disgrace actually especially when people are trying to act smart and political and fingering Fergie for anything that has went wrong like he is some sort of overlord pulling the strings.
He nearly died, let him enjoy his retirement, and if people want his advice on issues then let him give him it. He earned that right.
People moan about lack of football people at the club, but nah he shouldn't be on the board. It's ridiculous.
This is just plainly not true he has only been DoF since 10/03/21
As for the search for manager taking time doing due diligence and having a proper interview and background checks is seen as a bad thing?
I blame the media, they constantly pushed the narrative that Poch was SAF's choice. At best it's down to the fact they are known to have a friendship. At worst it's just conjecture to divide the fan base. To be fair, Pochettino was probably most people's choice at some point in the last 3 or so years. Either way, we've got the man most people wanted now and the right man to conduct a rebuild and instil an identity into the team.
I would love nothing more than for Sir Alex to see us lift another league title from the stands.
RedQ-afe
It seems incredible that we are so far 'down the rabbit hole' that some fans, want to believe SAF is still pulling the strings.... if only he was 
.
He's a Non-Executive Director or something similar, so of course he has some influence.
.He's a Non-Executive Director or something similar, so of course he has some influence.
No they don't. It's a social media concocted conspiracy theory. The people to blame are the general public for being idiots.
What is the craic with these daft conspiracies that seem to have landed in the Caf
Phelan more likely gone, Carrick gone, Fergie apparent pick Poch is not in the job, Ole who was meant to be Fergie boy sacked as well, Moyes sacked didn't even get a season..........but Fergie got growing control and influence over the club.
Even him getting full blame for Moyes is mad too when he on record asking klopp and pep could they take over from him. Moyes was way down the list.
Disgusting the slander that gets threw at Fergie. Disgrace actually especially when people are trying to act smart and political and fingering Fergie for anything that has went wrong like he is some sort of overlord pulling the strings.
He nearly died, let him enjoy his retirement, and if people want his advice on issues then let him give him it. He earned that right.
People moan about lack of football people at the club, but nah he shouldn't be on the board. It's ridiculous.
Good post.
So the head of youth development circa 2019 had a hand in appointing the first team manager?
Yeah ok mate, no doubt Justin Cochrane will have a big say in who we choose between Ten Hag and Pochettino for first team manager this year.
Feck me.
Prior to Murtough appointment as DOF we used a rather outdated system were there was the CEO, the manager and a huge void in between. I find the idea of Woodward taking all football decisions on his own without at least consulting anyone as ludicrous. First of all he lacks the expertise. Secondly if shit hits fan then all fingers would be pointing at him ie a banker who keeps taking football decisions despite lacking the knowledge.
So I believe that Woodward had his inner circle of football people that he consulted. Who better suited for the role then Murtough ie someone who kept being handled more and more responsibilities by Woodward himself? Of course this is a theory which is why I used the word probable. I guess you ignored that just as you ignore the rest of the post which placed Murtough's achievements in a different perspective.
I completely agree with your posts mate.
It's absolutely clear that Murtough's remit was to oversee the development at academy youth level. And it's well documented that Ole was brought back to the club after Woodward spoke to Fergie and he suggested Ole as a interim choice and not a permanent choice. And there's nothing wrong with Fergie suggesting we bring Ole in as a interim.
People are arguing about things they have very little knowledge of. It's absolutely idiotic to blame the Academy director for the mistakes at first team level.
We're going to blame Cochrane and Nick Cox (academy manager) for mistakes at first team level in the future.
Yeah you seem to believe a lot of things based on very little mate.
Seems plausible with the way things were run by Woodward. I suppose Ed hadn't banked on Ole doing so well as Interim.
Absolutely mate.
And Samuel Luckhurst was even asked about Fergies influence yesterday in a Q&A session, and he said that he doesn't have any influence and neither is he interested in having any influence at his age. He'll assist the club if he can, like he did with Ole (interim) and signing Ronaldo. But according to Luckhurst he has no interest apart from that.
No, Docherty often went to Busby for advice.
After the way the likes of Bobby Moore, Sir Alf Ramsey, Bill Shankley, Jock Stein, Jimmy Murdoch and others and others were treated by their former clubs and country most clubs have learned to find roles former players and ex managers, as United have done with the likes of Bryan Robson and Ron Atkinson. In Germany, Brazil, France, Italy this was commonplace going as far back as the end of the 60s.It seems incredible that we are so far 'down the rabbit hole' that some fans, want to believe SAF is still pulling the strings.... if only he was
He's a Non-Executive Director or something similar, so of course he has some influence.
Dont forget howclose we were to retaining the European Cup in 1969 only to be cheated.
Having ex-players and managers involved behind the scenes ia a good thing in my opinion. I also think it’s mostly irrelevant to our success or failure.
Fans just want something or someone to blame for our demise when the most likely explanation is that lots of qualified people made several poor decisions. Those poor decisions either got compounded by another or fixed. We just haven’t made enough good decisions in a row. I don’t buy the conspiracy theories and I firmly believe the board etc want the club to win things.
What we haven’t done over the past ten years or so is lead the way or innovate in any great sense. We haven’t had cutting edge ideas/coaches or recruitment. It kind of reminds me of how England failed for so long. We built St George’s park as a response to Frances success then copied some elements of Germany’s success etc. You have to forge your own path to success or you are just following.
Does it really matter if he has power and how much? Hard to say for us who are not there but I can imagine it having both good and bad affects.
I seem to remember reading about the time Busby quit but was still shadowing around the place and how apperantly it did no good whatsoever, pretty sure Ferguson even spoke off it once and how he would not make that mistake. In my opinion he shouldn't be there at all anymore. He is retired and even though he is the greatest the games ever seen he is now an 80 year old and the game moves on, the club and fans need moving on, doesn't mean he'll be forgotten or disrespected, time does us all in, I'm not saying he knows nothing but even the best at sports don't become the best coaches and the best of coaches may not become the best of advising on board level. And so on.
But even so that is probably not even the biggest problem, problem is our players, attitude and owners who use this club as an ATM.
I seem to remember reading about the time Busby quit but was still shadowing around the place and how apperantly it did no good whatsoever, pretty sure Ferguson even spoke off it once and how he would not make that mistake. In my opinion he shouldn't be there at all anymore. He is retired and even though he is the greatest the games ever seen he is now an 80 year old and the game moves on, the club and fans need moving on, doesn't mean he'll be forgotten or disrespected, time does us all in, I'm not saying he knows nothing but even the best at sports don't become the best coaches and the best of coaches may not become the best of advising on board level. And so on.
But even so that is probably not even the biggest problem, problem is our players, attitude and owners who use this club as an ATM.
Going to an ex-manager for advice is absolutely fine.
The ex-manager undermining the current one’s work by maintaining an unprofessional relationship with current players and interfering with transfer decisions is something else completely. There’s plenty of evidence Sir Matt was guilty of the latter, particularly through Wilf’s and Frank’s tenures. Though absolutely none (as far as I’m aware) regarding SAF, despite what some conspiracy theorists would tell us.
Indeed. That was the last hurrah of Sir Matt’s final great team. It was obviously in decline by then, but still capable of some remarkable stuff.
I blame Russia.This.
The conspiracy is blown apart
Yes, it was the last Hurrah for that great team, and if we had won Im pretty certain things would have been different regarding recruitment and investment. Maybe Jock Stein would have taken over from Busby at the end of that season, as Busby had suggested and who knows how things might have turned out?
Football is a funny game. In any other business would a former manager still linger when he’s effectively retired? The fact he’s still there as non-executive doesn’t sit right with me. Exactly the same situation as Busby. Even if he has no intention to make decisions, people are obviously going to listen to his advice. We will never know how much influence he has but I’d suspect given how much Woodward was involved, with no experience in football it’s highly likely he was taking advice from Fergie. United’s issues are from the top down, the whole club needs to be re-structured and that’s why I have no confidence with Ten Hag coming in. We want to stick to the manager having full control which has proved not to work for nearly 10 years now. The latest being Ten Hag wants control over transfers. That’s great until you sack him, hire a new manager with a different philosophy, then need 8 new players to play that system. Where is the continuity?
Look at Barcelona as an example. They were a mess at the beginning of the season. This was meant to be their worse season in years. In less than a season they’re already fighting back. That’s because it’s not down to the manager to sort the club out, they got Laporte in to steady the ship. Now they have beaten Real Madrid 4-0, look to finish second and could well win the Europa League. United could not only dream of such a turnaround in less than 6 months.
Look at Barcelona as an example. They were a mess at the beginning of the season. This was meant to be their worse season in years. In less than a season they’re already fighting back. That’s because it’s not down to the manager to sort the club out, they got Laporte in to steady the ship. Now they have beaten Real Madrid 4-0, look to finish second and could well win the Europa League. United could not only dream of such a turnaround in less than 6 months.
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Mark Hughes Atkinson brought through as well.
Maybe they would. There’s no way Jock Stein would have let Sir Matt inflict Ian Ure on him, that’s for certain
Mate this thread is stretching a fair bit
Sir Alex will have some influence on decisions, no doubt. But nothing like what you’re indicating.
Sir Alex will have some influence on decisions, no doubt. But nothing like what you’re indicating.
I base most of what I say on what United say. For example an official club statement said
" John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjær and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s academy and recruitment department.”
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director
Then there is what Jon himself said
“This is such an exciting time for everyone at Manchester United with the first team, Academy and Women’s team all performing strongly, and plenty of development still to come. It’s a privilege to be part of that process, and an honour to lead Manchester United’s football department, working alongside Ole, Casey and so many other truly outstanding staff all dedicated to delivering success to this club.”
So Jon was indeed involved in recruitment, the academy and the women's team. Once you have that you can focus on how these areas had truly faired. Well Casey has left because of the poor conditions the women's team are in (that came from various reputable sources), you can easily find how the U18s and U23s are fairing and compare them to their counterparts during SAF's regime. Finally our achievements in recruitment are there for everyone to analyse.
On the last part Ogden has delivered a gem during an interview with Stetford Paddock. It seem that Rangnick had asked United about what they have about Nkunku only to be shocked to learn that he wasn't in their list. That's quite shocking considering Nkunku is one of the hottest talents in the Bundesliga with as many goals as Haaland this year and more assists under his name. TBF our recently overhauled recruitment department did discover the likes of Ronaldo, Varane and Maguire right?
It all depends on what you read/hear and who its written/said by. Some, including Pat Crerand, said that Busby, knowing he was going to be made General Manager after he retired suggested Wilf McGuinnes, a good man, and a long, loyal servant of the club both as a player and coach, be installed as manager with the knowledge that he, Busby, was always there for McGuinness for advice; but Wilf wanted to be his own man and did not seek Busbys advice, but neither did Busby try to influence him as, at first, everything was going well, we were doing well in the League, but when things started to unravel through injuries, loss of form etc, it was plain McGuinnes was in over his head; and thats when the Board asked Busby to step in. As for Frank O'Farrel he was another "good man" but again out of his depth, and again, according to some, he did not want any assistance, call it interference if you like, from Busby. Tommy Docherty, when asked if he would be happy with Busby still at OT as General Manager, said of course he was happy and that it would be stupid not to use his experience. Horses for courses.
Hmm. I’m not convinced. The fact that we signed no first team players at all between Ure in summer 69 (definitely a Busby pick) and Buchan in spring 72 when things were getting desperate doesn't exactly indicate that managers were being given free rein, particularly as the youth setup wasn’t exactly stacked with talent at the time. I can’t believe that any manager would have played Steve James had there been an alternative.
How much that was simply down to Edwards’ tightness is hard to say, but Sir Matt’s presence didn’t seem to help. In any case, I’m fairly certain he stopped being General Manager when his interim spell finished in summer 71.
So your opinion that Murtagh had a hand in Solskjaer being appointed as full time manager in early 2019 (while Murtagh was only head of youth development) is based on a statement from 2 years later in 2021 when he was appointed Football Director?
Absolute waffle mate.
I believe that he was probably consulted. I find it very hard to believe that he fount himself at the top of the pyramid (football side) full Mr Bean intro style. Its evident that Woodward liked the man and was adding more and more responsibilities upon him
You had ignored the rest of the post btw
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Yes, he did. Wish we had a young Mark Hughes today.
Yeah he probably was mate, the same way we'll probably consult Alan Keegan on Ten Hag and the groundsman for his thoughts on Declan Rice as a prospective signing.
The other part of your post, the quote from Murtagh is also from last year mate from the same statement and then something about Rangnick and some Right Back . So more of the same waffle.