This. Excellent post.
Fans are turning on Ole faster than they did on Moyes, LVG and Jose
- Thread starter Sir Scott McToMinay
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Oh really. Strange thing to say.
These idiots as you call them are in the main Manchester United fans and supporters.
Many loyal, many passionate and many extremely frustrated at the current situation.
It is perfectly understandable that they vent their frustration and this forum gives them the opportunity to make their views known.
If I am honest I am quite surprised how little real protest there is.
What is “this shit” exactly?
We’ve tried the second most proven option we could possibly have made at the time, Jose was a proven winner with the right pedigree to take on such a job, went down the shitter in the end.
There’s literally no way to know if Poch would’ve done better just because he had the right credentials.
Might as well support him now because we need to build a team from scratch.
Just keep an eye on the match going fans. They're the ones that matter, the goons on here won't go and spout their vitriol because they'd get shot down anyway.
I'm suprised how little protest there is against the owners and Woodward+++.
If the supporters want trophies, entertaining football etc, but the owners/CEOs want $$$ then there should be much more noice from the fans.
People are right to ask questions regarding OGS, Moyes (clear as day he was inept), and the other two managers when the team did/does not perform, but this is the effect not the cause!
The cause is that the main goal/aim of the football club is not related to football.
Are they though? It seems a lot of people are concerned about the way we've dropped off the cliff and the players don't seem to give a feck.
People saying "at least give him 200M to spend and a proper preseason to judge him" but what has Ole done to deserve this trust? I know he is a club legend and as a player he deserves all the credit, but as a manager he has done so little and at the current moment he is not helping his case with his poor tactics.
We could very well end up next december with 200M spent and struggling for top 4 as well.
We have wasted 6 years, we shouldn't be in a position where it's okay to gamble and give an unexperienced manager 1 year to try to prove himself, we should aim for the top bring experienced people who can deliver in the short and long term.
But either way, it's not going to happen, we fecked up giving Ole the 3 year contract so lets hope he turns out well eventhough I dont hold my hopes up.
We could very well end up next december with 200M spent and struggling for top 4 as well.
We have wasted 6 years, we shouldn't be in a position where it's okay to gamble and give an unexperienced manager 1 year to try to prove himself, we should aim for the top bring experienced people who can deliver in the short and long term.
But either way, it's not going to happen, we fecked up giving Ole the 3 year contract so lets hope he turns out well eventhough I dont hold my hopes up.
I don’t think he’ll be in charge this time next year.
I predict a difficult summer and Ole being asked to essentially work miracles with what he’s already got. Finishing outside the ‘Top 4’ will get him sacked and we’ll all be here again but with Ryan Giggs as caretaker longing for the summer.
I predict a difficult summer and Ole being asked to essentially work miracles with what he’s already got. Finishing outside the ‘Top 4’ will get him sacked and we’ll all be here again but with Ryan Giggs as caretaker longing for the summer.
Sure that would be nice for us to see the kids but again it's the manager's head that's going to roll for not utilizing the squad he has. Anyway i do think Ole will bring in few kids from academy and they will be getting significant minutes in the first team.
What choice do we have? Rightly or wrongly, the club have decided to employ him so they must (and we must) back him 100%.
Also, the length of the contract doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference. Moyes was on a six year deal and it didn’t stop us sacking him after 10 months. I expect Ole will have a top 4 clause as well, which will entitle him to less compensation than a full pay out.
A pattern that won’t continue when we finally get the right manager on board. Hence reserving judgement until the manager has had a chance to complete pre-season and sign a few players is - and always will be - the correct response.
Meanwhile, feel free to throw your toys out the pram as early as you want in each new manager’s career. Don’t let the begrudgers get you down. You do you.
Sack him and bring someone more experienced to take over the rebuild.
Won't see me taking issue with that approach. Those with doubt who want to give him the benefit are still onside. The issue is with those angry with anyone expressing doubt, calling people idiots for respectfully expressing doubt
Who are those fans?? The knee jerks on caf? And some weird fans who get a boner whenever someone say Poch.
How can you say that when he’s given contracts to deadwood like, smalling, Jones and young already. As for youth He also seems to refuse to play greenwood over say rashford who’s been awful for a long time now. Chong and Gomes should be getting minutes too by now.
We've seen better football under him than we have under any of Moyes, LVG, Jose. That alone should point towards at least having a better approach to us than them, even if he's not as experienced. It was the football we've all wanted to see, which points to him knowing what we need to achieve that better than those who didn't know what they wanted to achieve nor what was needed. That's good enough reason in my opinion.
I love the cafe but we can be an insufferable lot at times. I think De Gea is a good example from just this weekend - he was applauded onto the pitch at half time by the appreciative match going fans, while our forum was popping up with all sorts of nonsense at the same time.
If there's any manager that I'm willing to give some time it's Ole. He is a club legend and his interim management period and supposed vision for the club have some promise. Plus I want the soul of the club back before I'm overly concerned about the trophies. I've been spoiled supporting England's most successful club.
Knows the club, loves the club is a good punchline. While contributes zero to the overall performance.
I really fail to see how knowing the club and passion about the club would help on field performances.
Yeah because they all proved 10x more (and that's being generous) than Ole had before joining United.
Someone with a CV like Ole's needs to perform because his past exploits will not buy him time. Yes, he's one of our own but if he was an ex-player that was much less likeable we'd all be sharpening the knives. Ole is a legend and many people are unable to remove sentiment from their evaluation.
Someone with a CV like Ole's needs to perform because his past exploits will not buy him time. Yes, he's one of our own but if he was an ex-player that was much less likeable we'd all be sharpening the knives. Ole is a legend and many people are unable to remove sentiment from their evaluation.
I swear we should go through the posts of everyone now saying
"ooh he knows the club, but what's he actually done"
to find how many were all over him and saying he definitely should get the job, a mere 5-6 weeks ago.
Bet it'd be a huge percentage.
"ooh he knows the club, but what's he actually done"
to find how many were all over him and saying he definitely should get the job, a mere 5-6 weeks ago.
Bet it'd be a huge percentage.
Then sack them when it goes tits-up again? Without actually addressing the problems we have?
Who would you like that’s more experienced? Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho are available. As is David Moyes as it goes.
This and this. It's nothing to do with "turning on him" for most people on here. Being sceptical about the chances of him succeeding and blaming him for any lack of success are totally different things.
Hell, I thought Moyes was clueless and never wanted him near the job, but I only started to dislike him after he'd left and he and his press mates started slagging us off.
My issue withe whole thing is that Ole was never the plan, he was thrust upon on us purely because Jose had to go sooner than anyone thought, and then the club inexplicably offered him the job when there was no need to do anything at that stage.
I guarantee most fans wouldn't be so keen now if we hadn't offered him the job already, and would say he's done ok, but we probably need someone else to the full on rebuild we so clearly need to do, and I think that's why people are frustrated, they're not turning on him at all, it's just hard to see how we can move forward under a setup that was only ever supposed to be a stop gap.
I guarantee most fans wouldn't be so keen now if we hadn't offered him the job already, and would say he's done ok, but we probably need someone else to the full on rebuild we so clearly need to do, and I think that's why people are frustrated, they're not turning on him at all, it's just hard to see how we can move forward under a setup that was only ever supposed to be a stop gap.
We offered the job as he'd done incredibly, and behind the scenes players need to know who the manager is going to be. Both in terms of current players renewing, and new players being bandied about.
We're already crap at transfers, so giving every other club a big headstart could have been a disaster.
Obviously no one thought the drop off would be this huge.
[QUOTE="All I know is he'll try his best, and that's all you can ask from him.[/QUOTE]
Trying your best should be the very minimum requirement for anyone employed by this club, and by no means does "trying one's best" mean that it will be good enough.
Trying your best should be the very minimum requirement for anyone employed by this club, and by no means does "trying one's best" mean that it will be good enough.
there are a few that want him sacked before he's even given a proper shot at the job and a few that can't accept that he's even capable of making mistakes. Both equally wank.
The rest I would guess support him but voice their concerns on certain decisions he makes, I'm in that category. There is a big difference between questioning certain decisions he's made and wanting him sacked.
The rest I would guess support him but voice their concerns on certain decisions he makes, I'm in that category. There is a big difference between questioning certain decisions he's made and wanting him sacked.
To those asking what has he done to deserve the job/time, I say the initial run, the longest ever unbeaten run for a premier league manager is enough for me. It cannot be attributed to "just new manger bounce/luck". If you think so, then why not consider this run just a bad patch. You cannot have it both ways.
Because that's what usually follows after new manager bounce. There are some great examples in PL like big Sam where he always starts strong and saves team from relegation then turns to shit.
18 games is almost half a PL season. That's some bounce then!
@OP, which criteria did you measure or ‘analyse’ to suggest this?
I see the Ole naysayers as those that don’t know football, pure and simple.
You can’t defend if you don’t run.
You can’t score if you don’t run.
You don’t have heart if you don’t run.
We don’t run.
The dressing room is rotten. The media latch on like hyenas. It’s poison in that dressing room. We need true professionals at this club to show Rashford, Shaw, Dalot, Lindelof and our young core how to be a Man United player.
These posters who are calling to Ole to be sacked at this point are sabotaging the club. This isn’t his team. Under no circumstances should he be held accountable for this group of bluffers on the field. Give him his chance. If after 3 transfer windows, he’s hasn’t come good, then okay, have at him. But not now.
You can’t defend if you don’t run.
You can’t score if you don’t run.
You don’t have heart if you don’t run.
We don’t run.
The dressing room is rotten. The media latch on like hyenas. It’s poison in that dressing room. We need true professionals at this club to show Rashford, Shaw, Dalot, Lindelof and our young core how to be a Man United player.
These posters who are calling to Ole to be sacked at this point are sabotaging the club. This isn’t his team. Under no circumstances should he be held accountable for this group of bluffers on the field. Give him his chance. If after 3 transfer windows, he’s hasn’t come good, then okay, have at him. But not now.
Not turning on him no, but making it permanent was far far too soon, yet many on here were over the moon.
Quite right especially cause and effect.
Another good tool to use is the 5 Why's.
If you use this properly and honestly you get to the cause.
For example:
Why are United not PL Champions - because they have not gained enough points.
Why have they not gained enough points - because they didn't win enough games.
Why didn't they win enough games - because they didn't score enough goals.
Why didn't they score enough goals - because they didn't create enough chances
Why didn't they create enough chances - because they are not good enough to create enough chances.
Indeed, record breaking bounce
The club had ‘proven’ managers and it didnt work out as it was planned. Another ‘proven’ manager wouldnt be an assurance for success. The ‘positive’ thing now is that the limelights are fully on the club and the players. The manager will be backed and players know that they are at risk of being cut. Massive pre season ahead thats for sure.
Well we don’t need these people
For complex matters such as analyzing a whole organization, 5 Why's is not enough. You will yield better results using it on simple processes or smaller elements.
RCA is more fitting here, and while one will find many different "root causes" dependent on what one evaluates as important etc and which "root" one wants to follow we are likely to find that the roots ends up near the top of the MUFC hierarchy.
When analyzing companies having been successfull(financially) over a long time is that they share the common trait that they value quality. Their main goal is to deliver quality product/services, not making money. These companies making money is only the effect of them delivering "quality", either it be in services/products or in the production of said services/products. Very relatable to football.
The ones who sets the vision/long term goal are the owners/board, and based on theis the managers/CEO entities/ technical directors creates a strategy for how to achieve those goals/vision.
Well, just loving the club and claiming to know the club isn't enough in itself or, a lot of random United-fans could have been the manager. However, it does help if we do have a manager that largely is on the same page as the club and the fans. If he is a capable manager as well and has other qualities and is not just a talking puppet, then it is possibly a very powerful combination, which over time definitely can contribute to on field performances. We have a few issues as a club, and lack of great performances on the pitch are also tied into that.
We need a strong and ruthless leader who will demand that everyone is being held accountable to follow certain values that made us successful, even before playing style and tactics. To have a certain blueprint that ensures the club is keeping on our path in the right direction, instead of just throwing shit on the wall and hope it sticks. If Ole is being trusted to do this or is being treated as just a short-term risk is another matter, but I do think this is what we need and a man that knows the club very well could be a key factor in making it work. Maybe this is asking too much from Ole, but I feel he has the pedigree for some parts of the job, even before we talk about tactical knowledge etc.
We can take a chance on Ole and give him the proper backing to rebuild and create a better culture here. He has the potential to bring that feeling back, but he do need backing from everyone for that to happen. If we treat him as the finished article and expect him to work miracles on the level of SAF, like we have at times have done with our previous managers, then he'll not make it obviously. We can change managers later and this is a opportunity to have someone who understands the club actually work to make the changes that the fans want to make. He'll at least try, that much is clear for anyone who knows Ole. But, he'll have to work with the trust afforded to him and it'll make it very difficult for him if he doesn't get some leeway to make some big changes.
A lot of fans want to focus on blaming the manager for lack of short term results and might think anyone who doesn't is just sentimental, but I think this manager is looking to change more than just that, which is what I want and that might take more time. The risk is still very much there, but my point is just that there is more than blind sentimentalism behind the sentiment of 'knowing the club' and 'loving the club'. He might be a good manager, and so those ingredients makes him a good fit.
I hope the fans will back him enough to let him have a chance to stand up against Ed in the future. If the fans want him out quick then Ed will just get rid of Ole and admit to making the wrong decision of appointing him, which will change nothing and the next manager comes in. It will be especially easy for him to do fire Ole if the fans want him out while Ole is challenging him to make big changes. If nobody turns on Ole, he might be the one to make our board see sense down the line. At least thats what I think. I'm sure Pochettino would just resign if he was unsatisfied with the culture here and the bosses. Too big of a job. Ole loves the club and to make these changes is what he want, that is the good part which I think we have to protect.
I expect Ole to not get the backing needed if he sees the need to make some radical changes, which may seem wrong. Either the fans or Ed will stand up to him and he'll get fired. If he doesn't try to take charge and just tries to make everyone happy then he'll definitely not be successful on the pitch and he'll get fired. He could be Guardiola tactically and I don't think he could turn our performances around without the proper build around him.
You cant judge him until he has had a full season. This time next year we will be able to see where we are and what direction we are taking. If we are playing a lot better style of football with a regular winning mentality thats all you can ask. 2nd season I would then be hoping to a kick on to a top 4 finish.