Was thinking exactly the same thing. Chelsea taking a lot of risks and could end up with some huge sanctions as we know. The buying clubs (Burnley in this case) need to be checked out too.
Facundo Pellistri (Out) | signed for Panathanikos
- Thread starter RedRocket9908
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You're going to drive yourself mad if you constantly try to infer fair value from a market as volatile and irrational as the one for players.
There is no argument we are not selling as well as equivalent clubs (though in aggregate it's not that bad) and that is something that needs to be improved through long term work.
What matters is since last summer a lot of players left the squad and in this window it seems we didn't eat a major loss (at least accounting wise) on any of them save Van der Beek perhaps. We already tallied 50m in sales which isn't incredible but more than decent for us.
We'll see if in the future years we improve the value for each individual sale.
There is no argument we are not selling as well as equivalent clubs (though in aggregate it's not that bad) and that is something that needs to be improved through long term work.
What matters is since last summer a lot of players left the squad and in this window it seems we didn't eat a major loss (at least accounting wise) on any of them save Van der Beek perhaps. We already tallied 50m in sales which isn't incredible but more than decent for us.
We'll see if in the future years we improve the value for each individual sale.
So let me get this straight, Burnley are helping chelsea money launder are they? Like did we help them money launder too with £60m for Mount with a year left, arsenal with £65m for Havertz and for every other team that seems to always pay good money for even their fringe or loan fc players? Everyone’s in on it with Chelsea are they?
It’s very easy to say the deals are dodgy but please do tell me how that makes sense given the clubs who would then have to be involved in these dodgy deal with them?
I'm not sure what you really want people to say in response. We literally signed Pellistri for peanuts, and now he's being sold for peanuts. You want us to sign £7m players, great, he's an example of that and it didn't work out, but the squad needs serious investment now to become competitive for CL spots in the short to medium term. There's still time in the future to try more cheaper deals on younger talents to speculate.
Pellistri has gone out on average loans to lower level La Liga sides who aren't interested in signing him permanently, and it seems like the only interest came from a side in the Greek league. A team in a better league that literally saw him day in day out for an entire season wasn't interested in signing him permanently.
Now every other club in the world may be wrong, he may be some flower yet to blossom, but the more likely answer is he's just not that good a player and at 23 his ceiling is limited. Him playing for Uruguay doesn't change that.
Maybe Chelsea's sales are dodgy. Or maybe we just suck at selling. Occam's razor and all that
Because he only has a year left, isn't homegrown and going to an English club, coming off the back of 3 non descript loans and is generally just bang average.
Maybe the problem is our talent ID and how we try to develop these players, and selling them too late in the day?
He has 2 years left because we have the option to extend for a further year. Same with McT. Pellistri has 26 caps for Uruguay whereas this random kid at the age of 21 has 26 appearances for Swansea.
Option is pointless if we lose % of fee to it like AWB. Just because he plays for the NT doesn't mean he automatically goes up in value, he plays more for the clubs he's been on loan at and has shown pretty much nothing to convince anyone to take a punt on him. Hence why he's off to Greece.
How many times are people going to need to learn that football values are massively influenced by perceptions of potential. Pellistri has shown repeatedly through his career that he is a limited player, so his value has diminished over time. It's crystal clear, no ambiguity about it.
Well I wasn’t talking about Mount or Havertz. They were both international players with good records. Off course they are moving for real money. However we did overpay for Mount. Blame whomever did that deal at the time. We know they were not good at buying or selling.
However yes I do think that there’s something shady about getting overpaid for youngsters with no experience. It may not be illegal but I bet they are playing around loopholes because that seems to be their strategy. 12m is a huge chunk of money for a club like Burnley.
I mean Liverpool and City get similar amounts for their nobodies.
Bobby Clark who's barely played any games for Liverpool and is not an international is going to Salzburg for 10m plus a 17.5% sell on percentage. There's no way we should be negotiating a 5m fee for Pellistri
We should absolutely hold out for at least £25m or not sell him at all. If Panathinaikos cannot pay that we should just sell him to a club that can pay that. And I’m not even convinced it should be £25m, maybe we should ask for more.
Im discounting city for the same reasons. Someday it’s all going to come out in the wash.
Liverpool examples?
Regardless, the new team have just started. Just them in a few years. We’ve never had this added PPR requirement so we need to adjust our historical attitude of not over pricing our youngsters so that they get a club
He's a CB, impossible to compare with an attacker who doesn't score or assist
What can be said is he's had a championship loan so he's proven himself to some level in England unlike Pellistri who went out to Spain
He doesnt seem very good but at 187 he's got some height
Edit - The most important part though for premier league teams, he's English
This x100. We continually push players out on unsuccessful loans, then bring them back and try them in the first team. By that point any team that can pay a decent fee doesn’t want to know.
Hannibal could have been sold off the back of the Birmingham loan, or loaned straight back out the next season to a better Championship team. Instead he hung around and proved he wasn’t a premier league or la liga level player. Burnley will be looking at this player knowing he can handle the championship, and being 21 and English, has a huge upside if he does well.
The question is more about whether we want to do business this way. Look at all the young players Chelsea have lost that went on to be top players. You can’t have it all.
That’s a good point, keeping quotas up
Barely played any games and has still nearly matched Pellistri’s output.
Clark is a teenager with potential. Pellistri is three years older and has proved he struggles to score 1 goal a season.
You can’t spend season after season producing nothing and then expect to have a high value.
To be fair, Pellistri hasn't played much here either. 600mins sprinkled across 2 seasons. Clark had 424mins in the last 2 seasons. We don't ever have a plan for these type of signings, we loan them out to random clubs that play crap football and then wonder why they've not developed. Then when they do come back we barely give them a chance in the first team either. It's just another example of how poorly the clubs been managed. If he's not cut out for the first team, sell him and free up the space for the next talent.
He has had loans where he has played and done nothing.
Pellestri for £25m?Yes, to two random, defensive teams in La Liga. Both of whom flirted with relegation (Alaves relegated in the 2nd season, they changed Manager and Pellistri barely featured) and then to Granada for half a season who also got relegated... like why would you send an attacking talent to a terrible attacking side for half a season? It's a bizarre decision. They wouldn't even sign him for the money we wanted anyway because they were doomed for relegation in the first place!
Because no attacking teams were probably that keen due to his lack of output? Even at Penarol he was never putting numbers up, he averaged a G/A every 400 minutes there.
Those numbers at Penarol are pretty good given he was 17/18? Sending him to a foreign country for half a season to a relegation candidate playing crap football is not good development. Simply put him down a level and let him develop or just sell him. How many prospects have had good loan moves in the last 5/6 years? He might not be a good player, but we've certainly not helped him either. Hopefully we get our shit together under INEOS.
Because attacking teams didnt want him. I'm sure he was also asked and prefered to go to Spain than league one or the championship
Amad chose to stay in Britain on the other hand. He had a bad time not playing at Rangers, but wanted to go on loan to the championship and that Sunderland loan helped him be the player he is now
I'm jesting here obviously, as I find the entire debate over his price funny. If anything, while on his twoloan spells Pellistri has actually proven to be no more than a decent player with a limited ceiling. That is why he is currently drawing interest from Panathinaikos and not top teams from Spain, Italy or France (let alone Premier League in which he has not really done anything), and generating interest from such clubs is inevitably going to lead to an underwhelming fee. The fact that he's playing for national team is pretty much meaningless, there are dozens of players playing for national teams who are not amazing.
Also people being completely unaware of how much other clubs can actually afford to pay. Just because we can shell out £10m for literally any player and pretty much ignore it if he fails does not mean that other team could accomodate that. If you are a smaller league club, the only reason you are spending £10m on someone is because you are expecting to sell them on for 3x that after a while.
If a club like Burnley was happy to spend that kind of money on Pellistri then they would. But given he’s going to Greece then I’d say that’s unlikely.
In addition, something United do - and probably always will do - is take care of the player’s interests. Apparently there’s a fella from Uruguay in charge at Panathanaikos. Perhaps Pellistri is really keen to go there for that reason. If so, then we’re not going to price him out of a move for the sake of a couple of million.
The club gets plenty wrong, but it looks after younger players and won’t ship them off somewhere they don’t want to be.
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Good luck to Pellistri, doubt we will be back for him as not really good enough for United. That said, a long run in a side may help him look better than he ever did at United.
There was no market for Pellistri. He's a traditional right footed right winger when everyone is trying this inverted nonsense.
We could hold onto him and hopefully get a successful loan, but he's failed multiple loans already and is wanting first team football. He just won't get it here. I am bamboozled by the money some of the u21s get elsewhere, but when there is no auction for a player what the hell are you to do?
We could hold onto him and hopefully get a successful loan, but he's failed multiple loans already and is wanting first team football. He just won't get it here. I am bamboozled by the money some of the u21s get elsewhere, but when there is no auction for a player what the hell are you to do?
He’s way better than that price, it’s for the best though.
If that’s the case, he’ll have no issues hitting those add ons and turning it into €8 million, along with a decent sell on in two years time.
good luck to him
A modest sum, but a decent deal if he kicks on.
I like him as a player and wouldn't be surprised if he goes on to have a good career in Europe.
I like him as a player and wouldn't be surprised if he goes on to have a good career in Europe.
I am optimistic he will, as some have mentioned his value has been depressed by some bad loans and he could have been a lot further along with better planning. If he is as good as I and others think he is then he will show it now and a move back to La Liga for example may well occur in a couple of seasons.
great deal with the 45 percent sell on if true. Doubt he will become a huge player in the world but hey never know
He's a hard working winger with some technical ability, if he grows I can see him at a team like Atletico.
Thanks Pellistri and all the best!
A few extra dosh to add to the Ugarte fee.
A few extra dosh to add to the Ugarte fee.
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