Well if weren't we are thickest club on earth.
Fabregas
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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Well if weren't we are thickest club on earth.
I think we were most certainly in for Thiago. I actually think it's mental to think that we weren't given everything that was going around.
Definitely, Fabregas is our essentially our second choice, can't see him being too pleased with that.
As pleased as he'd be if Barcelona decide to shaft him?
Of course we were in for Thiago, the timing of our first Fabregas bid which was a couple of days after Thiago opted for Bayern wasn't a coincidence.
Iniesta is on another level to Fabregas. Thiago has the ability to get closer to that sort of level in my view.
I actually hate Pep now. I hope we draw them in the CL and knock them out.
I only think he was our 'second choice' because Thiago was readily available at a very low fee. Fabregas, as we've found out, is a lot harder to prise away from Barca and would cost about twice as much.
I hope we don't draw them in the CL because I can't see how we'd knock them out.
I also predicted in the Thiago thread weeks before he joined Bayern that this would be the line half the caf would take should he not join us. It's always the same thing when a player doesn't come, it's 'can somebody show me proof that would be passable in a court of law that we, Manchester United Football Club, actually wanted to sign this player?'
Sounds like denial to me, there was obviously some level of interest to me.
It's of course only opinions but I agree with him. I think that Thiago will soon be the best midfielder in the world and can potentially win a Ballon D'or. Fabregas is better at the moment of course and I would be delighted if we sign him, but I would have preferred Thiago over him.
Always the way. It would have been interesting to see what Barca's response would have been, had we bid £40 million for Fabregas a couple of weeks before Thiago moved. But Walsh is right, going for Thiago first was the right move.
No he wouldn't, if Thiago didn't have a release he would cost twice as much, I'm sure they would rather have kept Thiago over Fabregas.And dont forget Thiago is 22 which means that no matter how much you pay for him now you can get back by selling him in 4 years time, something you cant do with Fabregas.
It makes me hard that Fabregas wouldn't have much resale value at all. 
Potentially. Fabregas has already been the best midfielder in England and would probably be again if he came back. Plus it's easy to forget that he wasn't at all far off Xavi and Iniesta in his last season at Arsenal. Respectable pundits were genuinely wondering if he might not be able to unseat one of those two. It's probably fair that his reputation has gone downhill a bit since being a little underwhelming at Barca, even if it hasn't really been his fault. But it shouldn't rewrite history. He was up there with those two when he was playing in a team and a system that suited him as well as theirs suits them. And he could be again.
For me they're still equally desirable targets. Thiago has the best-in-the-world potential, Fabregas has the proven best-in-the-league quality. The only advantages Thiago had were that he was going cheap, and that we'd have had him for longer.
But he did have a release clause, so yes Fabregas would cost twice as much.
You missed the point in Walsh's post to which I was replying.
You replied to the bit in bold I assume, the bit where he said Fabregas would be harder to prise away and would cost twice as much. No?
Fair.
Lets put it this way, if they both had a release clause of 20m who would be first choice for us, and, if neither of them had a release clause who would be more expensive?
Fabregas I'm assuming, without a release clause Thiago might be the more expensive. Either way, you'd love to have them both at that price!
Have them both And to think Barca had both of them and hardly played them imagine that.
Anyway I would have thought Thiago. I could start a thread with that question to see what others think.
And to think Barca had both of them and hardly played them imagine that.Anyway I would have thought Thiago. I could start a thread with that question to see what others think.
I have a genuine question (although any answer will likely be speculation): was our not getting Thiago due to not coming in with a sufficiently high bid (ie. a fair bit more than the release clause?)
I know people will chime in with 'he was always going to sign for Bayern once Pep showed interest' but it seems like there was a fair bit of time that passed before Bayern jumped in. Had Bayern always been the place he was going to go, then why did it take so long to go there? One can't help suspecting that we lowballed, and then lost our chance once Bayern decided to get involved.
Anyway, any insight anyone?
I know people will chime in with 'he was always going to sign for Bayern once Pep showed interest' but it seems like there was a fair bit of time that passed before Bayern jumped in. Had Bayern always been the place he was going to go, then why did it take so long to go there? One can't help suspecting that we lowballed, and then lost our chance once Bayern decided to get involved.
Anyway, any insight anyone?
Why would we pay over his release clause? Did Bayern do that?
I think it was merely a case of ourselves and Bayern being the front runners for his signature, and understandably he wanted to take his time in making the decision which would be the most important one of his career. He eventually opted for Bayern, with an offer from United on the table too.
Exactly my point, which is why we went after Thiago first - he did have a low release clause and was therefore readily available.
Bayern did pay over the release clause, to get the deal wrapped up quickly.
We could have had Thiago for 20m and still have another 80 to spend.. that greedy bastard Pep
that greedy bastard PepWell that would lead me to believe Bayern were worried he'd opt for United.
On the other side, didn't Thiago pay a part of the money over the release himself, just to get to Bayern?
You have indeed missed a huge point.
I think you're right. Bayern payed around €20m and €4m add ons were from the proceeds of a friendly match and from Thiago.
What faulty logic are you talking about? You assert many things, and throw many smart sounding words around without actually saying much.
Did you or did you not suggest that people not involved in the transfer negotiations can't possibly have a sense of how the outcome is going to be? Do you still hold on to that point?
Higher ceiling that Fabregas would mean somewhere around Maradona / Zidane
And that's if he reaches that ceiling....
Thiago is thiago, but cesc is proven.
This was your original piece of brilliance. Now, that's like saying "It's raining today, therefore the stock market will crash". One simply doesn't follow from the other.
People can get a sense, or an inkling, or a hunch, or an impression. You can hold a subjective opinion on the matter and we all do, but you should at least be aware that that's what it is, and that the people who are actually involved will always have an infinitely better understanding of it.
What you originally said anyway was:
Which is just daft beyond belief, as well as incorrect. If United were given encouragement, you wouldn't know about it. That's kinda the point of privacy.
The story reported was Guardiola told him to concentrate on the Euros and they'll sort things out afterwards. Explains why it was all quiet from Bayern all along and then they got the transfer done shortly after the Euros final.
The grass is always greener... syndrome
Such clever words. Logic and language 101 in session here?
When all is said and done, from the looks of it what I sensed was right. I got that sensing from the idea that 1) Barcelona is a rich club, does not need money despite splashing on Neymar, and is not desperate to offload players. They've quickly rejected our bid. There was no posturing here, a rejection straight and simple. 2) Fabregas fought hard for a move to his dream club two years ago, has been a key player for Barcelona, played lots of games for them, including the big games, and is well paid. He's living his dream there, and there has been no indication from him to suggest that his club doesn't want him. You read papers and stuff, filter out some of the useless gossip etc, and I think you get a pretty good sense.
Some people obviously pick up on other stuff they read, or they feel that "No we can't be that unprofessional to make such a public bid if we weren't given encouragement by Barca or Fabregas". Fair enough, perfectly reasonable too.
Just because people here do not know all the facts doesn't mean we can't form an opinion, or express it with conviction. This is a football forum, not a court of law, nor a place for intellectual masturbation.
In any case, the people who are privy to all the facts seem to have failed in their (very public) bid to sign Fabregas.
Did we even bid for him ? I don't think so, or at least nothing was leaked as such. We don't even know since when Bayern were involved in this, it might have been way before United.
That's simply not true. You're not doing a very good job of filtering useless gossip.
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