Fabregas

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Brightonian said:
Wanting Bale over Fabregas is FM talk. You buy for the positions you are weak in first. Fabregas would improve us as a team more than Bale would.
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I think this is debateable. Personally I disagree. I agree with your general principle about covering weak positions first, but where there are truly world class players available in other positions you can sometimes have a bigger overall effect, as the sheer quality makes up for the weaknesses. This is to a large extent why RVP turned out to be such a good signing last year. He is an incredibly efficient striker, thus makes up for the lack of clear cut chances created from a better midfield.

In a similar away Ronaldo was so good on the wing, there was little work that was needed to be done in the middle to get the wins. Just get it to Ronaldo and he'll rip apart the opposition and where he is heavily marked other average players can shine with the extra space and time they have on the ball.
 
Its like people on here have forgotten the process we wnt through with bids, haggling and what not when we signed Rio, Rooney, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Van Persie.

All took multiple bids and time.

Whats new here?
 
Stickles said:
Okay, so Sport's story has been accepted as gospel then?

I don't get the standards around here. BBC, Sky etc - "bullshit, won't happen"

Notoriously inaccurate tabloid newspaper - fact.
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The only people who are taking it as fact are notorious retards anyway.
 
If hes happy to stay, but open to a move, and barca are not desperate to sell it going to take a lot more then £30m. Unless he makes it clear he wants to leave I reckon its going to be atleast £40m to tempt barca.

It will be interesting to find out how much interest we had in Thiago? Whether Fab was always our first choice, and we relied on that and just flirted with the idea of Thiago. If that is the case it will be very poor by us not going straight in a trying to get Fab and seeing where the card laid and if not favorable, then do everything we could for Thiago down the line.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I think this is debateable. Personally I disagree. I agree with your general principle about covering weak positions first, but where there are truly world class players available in other positions you can sometimes have a bigger overall effect, as the sheer quality makes up for the weaknesses. This is to a large extent why RVP turned out to be such a good signing last year. He is an incredibly efficient striker, thus makes up for the lack of clear cut chances created from a better midfield.

In a similar away Ronaldo was so good on the wing, there was little work that was needed to be done in the middle to get the wins. Just get it to Ronaldo and he'll rip apart the opposition and where he is heavily marked other average players can shine with the extra space and time they have on the ball.
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Yes, that all makes sense. But Fabregas is potentially just as world class as Bale, once he gets back to a team who plays him in every game in his best position. So the decision is between the current best winger in the league, and the man who left the PL as the best midfielder in the league. Our wings are pretty good, and our midfield is lacking in quality. Surely a no brainer.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I think this is debateable. Personally I disagree. I agree with your general principle about covering weak positions first, but where there are truly world class players available in other positions you can sometimes have a bigger overall effect, as the sheer quality makes up for the weaknesses. This is to a large extent why RVP turned out to be such a good signing last year. He is an incredibly efficient striker, thus makes up for the lack of clear cut chances created from a better midfield.

In a similar away Ronaldo was so good on the wing, there was little work that was needed to be done in the middle to get the wins. Just get it to Ronaldo and he'll rip apart the opposition and where he is heavily marked other average players can shine with the extra space and time they have on the ball.
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Yeah agree with this. Fabregas would be an incredible midfield signing though, can't decide who I'd rather out of he and Bale whereas if it was most other midfielders I'd choose Bale straight away!
 
starman said:
If hes happy to stay, but open to a move, and barca are not desperate to sell it going to take a lot more then £30m. Unless he makes it clear he wants to leave I reckon its going to be atleast £40m to tempt barca.

.
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Maybe but bids aren't made in a vacuum. We wouldn't have just picked a random number. We'll likely have a clue as to Barcelona's bottom line and may be edging as close or as far to is as we think we can get away with
 
Brightonian said:
Yes, that all makes sense. But Fabregas is potentially just as world class as Bale, once he gets back to a team who plays him in every game in his best position. So the decision is between the current best winger in the league, and the man who left the PL as the best midfielder in the league. Our wings are pretty good, and our midfield is lacking in quality. Surely a no brainer.
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Our wings arent exactly pretty good. Valencia and Young sucked balls last season and Nani was injured. Giggs did well for a few games. Kagawa was meh since it wasnt his best position. I would be torn as well if I had to choose one of Bale or Fabregas but just saying our wings arent that much better than our central midfield.
 
sammsky1 said:
Its like people on here have forgotten the process we wnt through with bids, haggling and what not when we signed Rio, Rooney, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Van Persie.

All took multiple bids and time.

Whats new here?
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Yeah I think a lot of posters are under the impression all of our transfers have either be completed without previous mention, or they went through first time..
 
RDCR07 said:
Our wings arent exactly pretty good. Valencia and Young sucked balls last season and Nani was injured. Giggs did well for a few games. Kagawa was meh since it wasnt his best position. I would be torn as well if I had to choose one of Bale or Fabregas but just saying our wings arent that much better than our central midfield.
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If last season was the only season ever you'd be right. But except for last season's blip, our wings have been our strongest asset for years. Once you get past all the hysteria, the chances are that at least one of - and probably both - Nani and Valencia will be back in form. Plus we just bought Zaha, who looks excellent so far. Whereas our CM has lacked depth and quality for a good five seasons now.
 
With Hiddink being linked to the job it's not unlikely he now might be involved in this if only informally. I suspect that the decision to accept or decline the second bid will come quite soon if the appointment is made within the week.
 
Brightonian said:
If last season was the only season ever you'd be right. But except for last season's blip, our wings have been our strongest asset for years. Once you get past all the hysteria, the chances are that at least one of - and probably both - Nani and Valencia will be back in form. Whereas our CM has lacked depth and quality for a good five seasons now.
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You dont know that though. I can make the same argument that if Cesc comes here the chances are he wont fit in.
 
Brightonian said:
Yes, that all makes sense. But Fabregas is potentially just as world class as Bale, once he gets back to a team who plays him in every game in his best position. So the decision is between the current best winger in the league, and the man who left the PL as the best midfielder in the league. Our wings are pretty good, and our midfield is lacking in quality. Surely a no brainer.
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I guess the question is how well you rate Fabregas. I think he is a solid hard working midfielder with decent creative and finishing abilities who will benefit the whole team. I'm just not convinced that in isolation he has the level of game changing abilities of Bale. With a squad as strong as ours, it is debatable whether improving the whole team by 5-10% through Fabregas is as good as Bale versus Nani who is arguably twice as good in terms of giving a top level performance on a consistent basis. I don't think there is much between an in form Nani and an in form Bale, but Nani is so inconsistent that the extra consistency could really make a huge overall impact.

Take into account also that we are not as desperate as everyone makes out in midfield. Carrick still has a good couple of years before he starts to decline from age, and we have many other supporting midfielders and plenty of young talent.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I guess the question is how well you rate Fabregas. I think he is a solid hard working midfielder with decent creative and finishing abilities who will benefit the whole team. I'm just not convinced that in isolation he has the level of game changing abilities of Bale. With a squad as strong as ours, it is debatable whether improving the whole team by 5-10% through Fabregas is as good as Bale versus Nani who is arguably twice as good in terms of giving a top level performance on a consistent basis. I don't think there is much between an in form Nani and an in form Bale, but Nani is so inconsistent that the extra consistency could really make a huge overall impact.

Take into account also that we are not as desperate as everyone makes out in midfield. Carrick still has a good couple of years before he starts to decline from age, and we have many other supporting midfielders and plenty of young talent.
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"Decent creative abilities?

:wenger:
 
Should we all go out and buy Fabregas shirts then or not?


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Jeez, short memories. Fabregas was comfortably the best midfielder in the league when he left. I love Cleverley and all, but you think Fab would only be a 5-10% improvement on him?
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I guess the question is how well you rate Fabregas. I think he is a solid hard working midfielder with decent creative and finishing abilities who will benefit the whole team. I'm just not convinced that in isolation he has the level of game changing abilities of Bale. With a squad as strong as ours, it is debatable whether improving the whole team by 5-10% through Fabregas is as good as Bale versus Nani who is arguably twice as good in terms of giving a top level performance on a consistent basis. I don't think there is much between an in form Nani and an in form Bale, but Nani is so inconsistent that the extra consistency could really make a huge overall impact.

Take into account also that we are not as desperate as everyone makes out in midfield. Carrick still has a good couple of years before he starts to decline from age, and we have many other supporting midfielders and plenty of young talent.
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Actually, one reply isn't enough. There's just too much :wenger: in this post. Fabregas is a 'solid hard-working midfielder'. He's only 5% better than Cleverley but Bale is twice as good as Nani.

We've had one bad season on the wings, after having had the best wingers in the league for years and years and years, and people are full-on losing their heads. Bale's only even been 'consistently top-level' for one season. Before last season he would always have some incredible matches and big swathes of average ones.

Cina, weight the feck in here please. I can't even-
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I guess the question is how well you rate Fabregas. I think he is a solid hard working midfielder with decent creative and finishing abilities who will benefit the whole team. I'm just not convinced that in isolation he has the level of game changing abilities of Bale. With a squad as strong as ours, it is debatable whether improving the whole team by 5-10% through Fabregas is as good as Bale versus Nani who is arguably twice as good in terms of giving a top level performance on a consistent basis. I don't think there is much between an in form Nani and an in form Bale, but Nani is so inconsistent that the extra consistency could really make a huge overall impact.
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I think that argument is totally backwards. Bale is a better player than Fabregas taking everything into account, but given that we have a) Nani and b) a gaping whole in our midfield, I'd says Fabregas would have more of an impact on our team.

I think that the fact that Fabregas has been a "bit part player" (albeit one who plays a lot) at Barcelona has made people forget just how effective a footballer he is (or was at Arsenal anyway). He has found himself behind an incredibly un-breakable group of midfielders in Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta, but I have no dobut he'd walk into pretty much any other team in the world's midfield.
 
sammsky1 said:
Its like people on here have forgotten the process we wnt through with bids, haggling and what not when we signed Rio, Rooney, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Van Persie.

All took multiple bids and time.

Whats new here?
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Woodward: "How about £25m for Fabregas?"

Rosell: "£25m for a person? feck me that is loads! I could buy 100 3 bedroom houses for that! Deal!"
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I think this is debateable. Personally I disagree. I agree with your general principle about covering weak positions first, but where there are truly world class players available in other positions you can sometimes have a bigger overall effect, as the sheer quality makes up for the weaknesses. This is to a large extent why RVP turned out to be such a good signing last year. He is an incredibly efficient striker, thus makes up for the lack of clear cut chances created from a better midfield.

In a similar away Ronaldo was so good on the wing, there was little work that was needed to be done in the middle to get the wins. Just get it to Ronaldo and he'll rip apart the opposition and where he is heavily marked other average players can shine with the extra space and time they have on the ball.
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Fábregas is a world class player who happens to play in the position which is the weakest point of our squad. Therefore he's preferable to Bale.
 
Brightonian said:
Jeez, short memories. Fabregas was comfortably the best midfielder in the league when he left. I love Cleverley and all, but you think Fab would only be a 5-10% improvement on him?
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No you were misunderstanding. I mean the presence of Fabregas would improve everyone in the team by 5-10%, more cover for defence, more goal scoring opportunities for strikers and better distribution to wingers. He would still probably be a good 60-70% better than Cleverley.

I'm pulling numbers out of mid-air here as very difficult to judge, but say 70% improvement over cleverley + 10% improvement on rest of the team, versus Bale who would be maybe 150% improvement on Nani and offer an equivalent 10% improvement to strikers, but maybe not the extra benefit to rest of the team, except maybe left back cover which would probably be a good 50% improvement over what we currently have. Bale can track back more effectively than Nani and is much better at tackling.
 
Two bids rejected- will Moyes get the message or is this Barcelona waiting for the right deal?

Personally think we will give up now
 
Has the Thiago saga really broken our spirits that much? Lets have some optimism lads, we are muppets after all!
 
Woodzy said:
Has the Thiago saga really broken our spirits that much? Lets have some optimism lads, we are muppets after all!
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Yes, we could learn something from RAWK - they'd have poems, songs, operas, street parades and celebratory barbecues by now.
 
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