Fabregas

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thing is, this is the most open we've seen the club operate in transfer dealings, from memory anyway. So, we've no idea whether it's the norm or not, for the club, to come back with another offer having been told he's not for sale.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Thing is, this is the most open we've seen the club operate in transfer dealings, from memory anyway. So, we've no idea whether it's the norm or not, for the club, to come back with another offer having been told he's not for sale.
Click to expand...


The last time I remeber any transfer being anywhere as close to this in the public sense for me was Ronaldinho or possibly the RVP deal.
 
alastair said:
No-one is forcing you to follow Arsenal's financial situation, but there's no point posting on it when you don't know anything about it.
Click to expand...


They've only invested in recent years when they've received money through player sales. This year they've recouped barely nothing in player sales and are conveniently only linked with players with whom they'd have to compete against teams with more substantial financial clout to obtain. All this despite them being the only top 4 side in England who haven't had to go through some degree of managerial restructuring over the summer. Yet did we see early business, a sign of long term planning of a team serious investing in the market this summer?

No. Instead we've seen "ooh, me too" with players who they simply will not sign. I don't think you particularly need to be privy to Arsenal accounts to see the obvious. I'm not saying Arsenal don't have money but it's quite clear they're not prepared to spend any of it.
 
Stickles said:
It's widely reported every year they have money to spend. This line isn't fresh for 2013. Nor is the linking to players they've got no hope in hell of achieving. If Arsenal did have funds surely they'd be in for players and buying them right now after weeks/months of scouting and negotiation. They've not had any change in their management, this excuse for a delay is not there. Why after all the time they've had and all the money they've apparently got to spent only going after players even the most loyal Arsenal fan must be extremely skeptical of them ever landing. Competing with Madrid for Suarez, Chelsea for Rooney, United for Fabregas and so on. Teams with financial clout they cannot possibly compete against.
Click to expand...

It's a different thing entirely. This isn't the press saying 'Arsenal have money to spend, and have lots of targets in mind.' Articles have been written analysing their financial figures, and showing that finally they're starting to get out from under the stadium stuff, and produce the long-anticipated profits. I'm not saying they can compete with Madrid, or the money clubs, or even us. But they aren't going to be 'spendthrift Arsenal' for much longer.

If you want more detailed info on the financial stuff, PM one of the residents Arses. Alastair probably has links etc.
 
Colin129 said:
Does this mean that it can not happen now? Or can they still potentially step in if we agree a fee with Barca?

Maybe the reason they keep reiterating he's not for sale & Fabregas is saying nothing is to avoid this possibility?
Click to expand...

I believe this is all to do with Fabregas requesting to leave to go back to Arsenal. I honestly believe that Arsene couldn't believe that Cesc really wanted to leave and I also think that Cesc isn't the greatest at saying what he wants. He let his agent do the work last time and it appears this time also.

Pep loves to buy all the best players, regardless of whether he needs them or not. Thiago is a great example. Barca have never needed Cesc and of course getting booed by the Barca fans probably didn't help his shrinking ego.

He needs to make the right decision this time and wants to be a midfield General, playing regularly and being loved by the fans. He knows he isn't going to get £200K+ at Arsenal and this is the time in his career he should be making big bucks. Also, despite Storey and other Arsenal muppet's belief, he is unlikely to win much with that team of misfits.

I can easily see why he would want to come and I also believe that if Barca accept the deal would be completed very quickly. I am willing to bet that when Moyes told us weeks ago, "There are people we are actively chasing and, at this moment in time, we’re happy with how things are going", he was referring to Fabregas and not Thiago and he had received an indication that there was a genuine willingness to come and that terms wouldn't be an issue.

Getting Barca to accept is the tricky bit and we can only hope the incumbent manager doesn't scream for him to stay. I am hoping he wants to bring in his own choice of players e.g. a much needed decent CB.
 
Where, oh where is this supposed letter from Rosell? There's not even an article about it on the MD or Sport websites, yet it made the Deportivo cover. What's the point in writing a letter like this if you're not honest enough to make it a public one...y'know, so the Barca fans know that you're serious about not selling Fabregas? Game-playing by Barca, that's all...
 
fergieisold said:
Then why have we spoken to Barcelona and based off that conversation submitted a second bid. It's clear what they're telling us isn't the same thing they're saying in public.
Click to expand...

It's just my view they won't sell him. He signed with them only two years ago, its his boyhood club, he says that he's not interested in a move, Thiago left, Xavi is getting on, the VP said he wouldn't be sold- all says to me he'll stay. Just because we're putting another bid in doesn't mean anything to me. I don't understand quite why Barca would want to sell?
 
as with ladies, 17 no's and a yes means yes, this is definitely our tactic here.
 
KanieKaned said:
The last time I remeber any transfer being anywhere as close to this in the public sense for me was Ronaldinho or possibly the RVP deal.
Click to expand...

Hargreaves as well and our Berbatov chase wasn't exactly inconspicuous.

We don't often chase established big name targets but when we do, it's quite public.
 
ninety said:
It's just my view they won't sell him. He signed with them only two years ago, its his boyhood club, he says that he's not interested in a move, Thiago left, Xavi is getting on, the VP said he wouldn't be sold- all says to me he'll stay. Just because we're putting another bid in doesn't mean anything to me. I don't understand quite why Barca would want to sell?
Click to expand...


So you think we offered £25m, were told he wasn't for sale at any price, went away and returned with £30m?
 
ninety said:
It's just my view they won't sell him. He signed with them only two years ago, its his boyhood club, he says that he's not interested in a move, Thiago left, Xavi is getting on, the VP said he wouldn't be sold- all says to me he'll stay. Just because we're putting another bid in doesn't mean anything to me. I don't understand quite why Barca would want to sell?
Click to expand...

Finance a move for Thiago Silva?
 
In Barca's bid for a proven centre back and given Evans, Jones and Smalling's growth - would people be open to the idea of a Vidic + cash offer for Cesc?

Personally I wouldn't and despite feeling that they younger CB's can step up to partner, or pair up to replace Rio, I think Vidic still has a lot to offer. Interested to see whether people feel that this would be the last year to cash in on Vidic and use him in a possible transfer.
 
KanieKaned said:
Thats fine and dandy but what about us coming back with our improved offer? Have we got selective hearing?
Click to expand...

From the article

“We can assure you that we won’t listen to any offers for Cesc. It is not an option. Cesc is non-transferable,” Bartomeu said.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what any offers means but I think it might mean all offers... Even improved ones.

FWIW I want Fabregas here as much as anyone, he'd be an awesome signing.
 
People cannot hold the management of the club in high regard at all if we think we're continuously bidding for a player we've been told we've no chance of getting whilst making the whole thing public to boot.
 
Siorac said:
That one tiny bit of hope is what keeps me alive and what prevents me from calling this a hopeless and pointless crusade.
Click to expand...

I think that right now they would accept a swap of Fabregas for Thiago Silva, so us getting involved could just create that deal in an indirect way, by paying them the money that they use to buy Thiago

I think they need him more than Fabregas
 
ninety said:
From the article



I'm not sure what any offers means but I think it might mean all offers... Even improved ones.

FWIW I want Fabregas here as much as anyone, he'd be an awesome signing.
Click to expand...

We said the same about Rooney. Do you think he will go?
 
Heardy said:
In Barca's bid for a proven centre back and given Evans, Jones and Smalling's growth - would people be open to the idea of a Vidic + cash offer for Cesc?

Personally I wouldn't and despite feeling that they younger CB's can step up to partner, or pair up to replace Rio, I think Vidic still has a lot to offer. Interested to see whether people feel that this would be the last year to cash in on Vidic and use him in a possible transfer.
Click to expand...

An interesting proposition. After giving it a little bit of thought I'd say no, it's the wrong summer for something like that. It's more important that we keep this side together and build on it, losing an important player and not least our captain before Moyes even plays a competitive match isn't something I'd like to see happen.
 
The first response we'd have had on the availability of Fabregas wouldn't have been the response to the bid.

Do people honestly think we sounded out the players agent and representatives, sounded out Barcelona as to his availability and tried to ascertain a ball-park figure - and on the basis of being told the player would not be interest and the club would not sell - we offered £25m and told the world's media about it?

Just interested to know if that's genuinely what some people think happened.
 
Heardy said:
In Barca's bid for a proven centre back and given Evans, Jones and Smalling's growth - would people be open to the idea of a Vidic + cash offer for Cesc?

Personally I wouldn't and despite feeling that they younger CB's can step up to partner, or pair up to replace Rio, I think Vidic still has a lot to offer. Interested to see whether people feel that this would be the last year to cash in on Vidic and use him in a possible transfer.
Click to expand...

No. For one thing, I don't want us to be 'cashing in' on our players. We don't need the money, so I'd rather they just retire with us if possible. Secondly, whilst the 'plus cash' bit makes sense because Vidic is 32 and Fabregas is 26, it grates because for me Vidic is still definitely one of the top three CBs in the world. It might be illogical, but it feels insulting to swap him for anyone 'plus cash'.

Lastly, I don't think Barca would really want him. He's much better than anything they currently have at CB, but I'm sure they're looking to solve that problem for more than just a couple of years. The age of rumoured targets like Thiago Silva and David Luiz supports that - mature, finished-product players, but with plenty of their careers still ahead of them.
 
Heardy said:
In Barca's bid for a proven centre back and given Evans, Jones and Smalling's growth - would people be open to the idea of a Vidic + cash offer for Cesc?

Personally I wouldn't and despite feeling that they younger CB's can step up to partner, or pair up to replace Rio, I think Vidic still has a lot to offer. Interested to see whether people feel that this would be the last year to cash in on Vidic and use him in a possible transfer.
Click to expand...

I think the reason I wouldn't accept that is more to do with how I'd like us to conduct ourselves as a club, rather than actual footballing reasons.

I wouldn't like us to ship of our Captain when he's done nothing wrong, playing well and wants to stay. Especially because he's such a likeable inspiring figure.

If he wanted to go though then from a footballing perspective it would make sense IMO, we need a CM more than we need a CB and with Garay potentially coming in that is only becoming clearer.

But yeah, unless he wanted to leave I wouldn't want to sell Vidic.
 
Stickles said:
The first response we'd have had on the availability of Fabregas wouldn't have been the response to the bid.

Do people honestly think we sounded out the players agent and representatives, sounded out Barcelona as to his availability and tried to ascertain a ball-park figure - and on the basis of being told the player would not be interest and the club would not sell - we offered £25m and told the world's media about it?

Just interested to know if that's genuinely what some people think happened.
Click to expand...

It's genuinely ridiculous isn't it?

Some people are actually, seriously, suggesting that we are pursuing him as a PR exercise. "We tried our best to get Fabregas but ended up having to fall back on Fellaini".
 
Stickles said:
Do people honestly think we sounded out the players agent and representatives, sounded out Barcelona as to his availability and tried to ascertain a ball-park figure - and on the basis of being told the player would not be interest and the club would not sell - we offered £25m and told the world's media about it?
Click to expand...

Do you think clubs only bid for a player after getting the go ahead from both his agent and club?
 
kps88 said:
Do you think clubs only bid for a player after getting the go ahead from both his agent and club?
Click to expand...

Yes. They do. Of course you do. It's common fecking sense. Getting the green light from the agent first at least. Why would you bid for a player who you hadn't sounded out first?

What'd be the point of that?
 
kps88 said:
Do you think clubs only bid for a player after getting the go ahead from both his agent and club?
Click to expand...
I'd say most of them do, yeah. So as not to look silly, at the very least.

Tapping up happens all over the shop. Insiders have said it before, some have even questioned why it's still a rule when it is so widespread. I'd say it happens in a vast majority of transfer deals.
 
Stickles said:
Yes. They do. Of course you do. It's common fecking sense. Getting the green light from the agent first at least. Why would you bid for a player who you hadn't sounded out first?

What'd be the point of that?
Click to expand...


To be fair not always.

There is many examples for instance of clubs accepting bids, but players deciding not to move.
 
Heardy said:
In Barca's bid for a proven centre back and given Evans, Jones and Smalling's growth - would people be open to the idea of a Vidic + cash offer for Cesc?

Personally I wouldn't and despite feeling that they younger CB's can step up to partner, or pair up to replace Rio, I think Vidic still has a lot to offer. Interested to see whether people feel that this would be the last year to cash in on Vidic and use him in a possible transfer.
Click to expand...
I don't even want to think about the possibility of Vidič not playing for United, so no...no way
 
finneh said:
To be fair not always.

There is many examples for instance of clubs accepting bids, but players deciding not to move.
Click to expand...

True, but those are quite rare and the failure may be down to failure to agree terms rather than the player being against the move or not wanting to leave.
 
Heardy said:
In Barca's bid for a proven centre back and given Evans, Jones and Smalling's growth - would people be open to the idea of a Vidic + cash offer for Cesc?

Personally I wouldn't and despite feeling that they younger CB's can step up to partner, or pair up to replace Rio, I think Vidic still has a lot to offer. Interested to see whether people feel that this would be the last year to cash in on Vidic and use him in a possible transfer.
Click to expand...


When have we ever offered players + cash in exchange deals? We just don't operate like that, suggesting Vida goes is lunacy too, he is our leader and best defender, why cash in on him? Poor post.
 
The simplest thing would be for Barca & the player to publicly state that there'll be no transfer. Neither party has done this despite massive media coverage and United's public statements about bids; so, is it any wonder that United are still pursuing the player?
 
yamo123x said:
When have we ever offered players + cash in exchange deals? We just don't operate like that, suggesting Vida goes is lunacy too, he is our leader and best defender, why cash in on him? Poor post.
Click to expand...

Swap deals are quite rare anyway, aren't they?

It's far too complicated to bother with Club 1 will sell A to club 2 as long as B agrees terms with Club 1. Why would you bother unless you were poor and had no money so needed to offset the cost of it?

Clubs would much rather have the funds to invest in their own targets in their own time in their own way. I got stick earlier in the week when it was suggested we'd might want a swap deal with Mata and Rooney. A quality player no doubt but i think the reason why these swap deals are so rare isn't because the players offered aren't quality but because it's much more preferable to have the cash on the hip to spend rather than a part-exchange.
 
I take the point about us not wanting to be seeing to "cash in" - particularly as we don't need the money.

I'm playing devil's advocate I suppose, but a player of Vidic's stature could tip the balance in a bid. Maybe not this summer, but if the three I mentioned continue to progress how long before they become first choice - one more year?

So I guess my point is, for some, losing Vidic as "first choice" CB for next season, would be worth acquiring Fabregas who at 26 could be first choice for 5 years...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.