Fabregas

Status
Not open for further replies.
While I don't agree with the extent of RedLambs views on Cesc, I must confess that I don't think he's quite that great, although easily better than what we, and many other teams have of course. I just think there is a noticeable gap between him and Barca's other main midfielders.

I reckon deep down, I must just be a simpleton who loves dribbling too much, as I think Fabregas is perfect in every other aspect, but not being able to beat men and manoeuvre out of tight spaces that great is a noticeable flaw for me, and the main reason I'd have taken Thiago over him quite easily I think. I think passing, vision and positioning etc are absolutely vital for a top CM, but the ability to do it on your own, if only for one or two seconds to evade opponents pressing you, or just to open up space to then play your pass, really separate players at the very, very top.
 
KingEric7 said:
As good as Fabregas was, both Rooney and Vidic were better around about that time.
Click to expand...

Cesc was the best midfielder, hands down, although you're right, the best player was more debatable. That said, I also personally believe that RVP was better than Rooney at this time anyway, and has been the best striker in England for about 4 years.
 
Rozay said:
Cesc was the best midfielder, hands down, although you're right, the best player was more debatable. That said, I also personally believe that RVP was better than Rooney at this time anyway, and has been the best striker in England for about 4 years.
Click to expand...


Yep. There were a whole array of stand-out performers from United alone that year. Vidic, Berbatov, Nani, Rooney, etc... In terms of midfield, Scholes was looking a shadow of himself, Gerrard/Lampard had gone beyond their peak, Carrick was very good but not the player he is now, Toure only came into his own properly the following season and so on. Fabregas was the best midfielder in the league but there wasn't much competition for that award.

I'd take that Rooney over Van Persie in a heartbeat personally (for me, that was Rooney at the peak of his powers and the sort of player we imagined he might become when he was younger), but with Vidic I think it's pretty much inarguable. What an absolute collosus he was from 08/09 to the back end of 10/11.

Still brilliant obviously, but it was basically 3 entire seasons of sheer domination. Best centre back in the world by an absolute mile. I don't think Fabregas has ever reached the level Vidic has, despite the obvious position-related difficulties in drawing comparisons.
 
KingEric7 said:
Yep. I'd take that Rooney over Van Persie in a heartbeat personally (for me, that was Rooney at the peak of his powers and the sort of player we imagined he might become when he was younger), but with Vidic I think it's pretty much inarguable. What an absolute collosus he was from 08/09 to the back end of 10/11.

Still brilliant obviously, but it was basically 3 entire seasons of sheer domination. Best centre back in the world by an absolute mile.
Click to expand...


Is this the 2010 Rooney? If so then can see where you're coming but personally I thought that whilst his goal return was great and he was certainly leading the line well I still thought his alround play wasn't as good as it could be. I dunno seeing RVP over the whole season rather than odd games when he was at Arsenal has really made me appreciate that he is a top player.

But yeah in terms of influence, there were a few more influential players, but then Fabregas was the pure heartbeat of his team. Vidic had Ferdinand, Rooney and Ronaldo who were all top players then as well.
 
Ash_G said:
Is this the 2010 Rooney? If so then can see where you're coming but personally I thought that whilst his goal return was great and he was certainly leading the line well I still thought his alround play wasn't as good as it could be. I dunno seeing RVP over the whole season rather than odd games when he was at Arsenal has really made me appreciate that he is a top player.

But yeah in terms of influence, there were a few more influential players, but then Fabregas was the pure heartbeat of his team. Vidic had Ferdinand, Rooney and Ronaldo who were all top players then as well.
Click to expand...


The post City bicycle kick Rooney. Fabregas left at the end of 2010/11 at a time when Rooney was playing the best football of his career. The less said about the first half of that season the better, but it should not be forgotten just how good he became after that first transfer request. My god, if we ever did somehow sign Fabregas and Rooney did return to that level for this team we'd be absolutely laughing. That team would piss the league.
 
KingEric7 said:
Yep. There were a whole array of stand-out performers from United alone that year. Vidic, Berbatov, Nani, Rooney, etc... In terms of midfield, Scholes was looking a shadow of himself, Gerrard/Lampard had gone beyond their peak, Carrick was very good but not the player he is now, Toure only came into his own properly the following season and so on. Fabregas was the best midfielder in the league but there wasn't much competition for that award.

I'd take that Rooney over Van Persie in a heartbeat personally (for me, that was Rooney at the peak of his powers and the sort of player we imagined he might become when he was younger), but with Vidic I think it's pretty much inarguable. What an absolute collosus he was from 08/09 to the back end of 10/11.

Still brilliant obviously, but it was basically 3 entire seasons of sheer domination. Best centre back in the world by an absolute mile. I don't think Fabregas has ever reached the level Vidic has, despite the obvious position-related difficulties in drawing comparisons.
Click to expand...

I've always just thought Persie didn't play enough games to prove he was the best, but he actually was. In Cesc's last season, if I recall, van Persie only began the season around December, and finished second top scorer in the League. Again, the fact that he didn't get the golden boot or something was probably partially what didn't lead to him getting the individual awards and recognition, but he scored about 18 league goals in the second half of the season I think. Even before that season, he'd get about 11 or 12 goals a season, but it still worked out around 1 every 2 with injuries factored in.
 
If Barcelona did sell surely they would need to replace him and what would be the point in doing that when they can just keep him?
 
KingEric7 said:
The post City bicycle kick Rooney. Fabregas left at the end of 2010/11 at a time when Rooney was playing the best football of his career. The less said about the first half of that season the better, but it should not be forgotten just how good he became after that first transfer request. My god, if we ever did somehow sign Fabregas and Rooney did return to that level for this team we'd be absolutely laughing. That team would piss the league.
Click to expand...

Over head kick season Rooney was shocking. that was the best thing about his season.
 
adam118 said:
If Barcelona did sell surely they would need to replace him and what would be the point in doing that when they can just keep him?
Click to expand...

His not used well anyway.. It would be like us replacing Berbabtov, i'm sure they are not too worried.
 
Rozay said:
I've always just thought Persie didn't play enough games to prove he was the best, but he actually was. In Cesc's last season, if I recall, van Persie only began the season around December, and finished second top scorer in the League. Again, the fact that he didn't get the golden boot or something was probably partially what didn't lead to him getting the individual awards and recognition, but he scored about 18 league goals in the second half of the season I think. Even before that season, he'd get about 11 or 12 goals a season, but it still worked out around 1 every 2 with injuries factored in.
Click to expand...


Yeah that's right. It was a stunning half season for Van Persie. Both of them had similar seasons in a sense, with the first half being something of a complete write off and the second being flat out brilliant. Not much in it at all - I just think that Rooney was more towards that Xavi/Iniesta/Ronaldo bracket back then, with Messi shitting on everyone else from a great height. After that he sort of moved down a level and was firmly in the Suarez, Aguero, Van Persie, Ibrahimovic category.
 
Mainoldo said:
Over head kick season Rooney was shocking. that was the best thing about his season.
Click to expand...


Pre overhead kick Rooney was shocking/injured/throwing a stop, and that first half of the season should be remembered for the absolute brilliance of Nani and the form of Berbatov. After that he was a completely different article.
 
walsh said:
Being able to replace him with someone for a lesser fee would probably be the thinking if they did sell him.
Click to expand...
Lesser fee and lesser quality most likely. If Thiago had decided to stay then it would have been more likely. Unless they did go for a centre midfielder who is more defensive to balance the amount of attacking players they have at their disposal.
 
KingEric7 said:
Pre overhead kick Rooney was shocking/injured/throwing a stop. After that he was a completely different article.
Click to expand...

No post and pre he was shocking and like someone said above he was even rubbish in the game.
 
Mainoldo said:
No post and pre he was shocking and like someone said above he was even rubbish in the game.
Click to expand...


Of course there was a post and a pre, his form was amazing after his contract situation had died down. He was easily our best attacking player and the reason Berbatov couldn't get back into the team despite being the league's top scorer was because the pairing of Hernandez and Rooney was working so well. If Rooney had been performing as badly as you make out throughout the whole season there's not a chance that Fergie would've stuck with him over Berbatov back then.

Never mind, this isn't the Rooney thread as has just been pointed out. My fault. I find it amazing that sort of form could be forgotten though - he looked the complete footballer. That was almost exactly what I imagined he was going to end up like when he was younger.
 
Mainoldo said:
No post and pre he was shocking and like someone said above he was even rubbish in the game.
Click to expand...

Watch the three games against Chelsea (the two CL quarter-finals and the league game at Old Trafford) then come back and tell us what you thought about Rooney's performances. As a bonus I can recommend the first leg against Schalke as well.
 
nahealai said:
It's not, mate. Look at his "touch" in the build-up to that goal again; it was abysmal.

If memory serves, he was even on the verge of being substituted such was his shiteness in that game.
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone would argue that his performance in that game was good; it was dreadful. It's the other point that was being labelled as bollocks most likely.
 
KingEric7 said:
I don't think anyone would argue that his performance in that game was good; it was dreadful. It's the other point that was being labelled as bollocks most likely.
Click to expand...


Fair enough. I also think his form post-strop is being grossly overrated here too, though. He was vastly improved on his pre-strop form, but Rooney has played better for us, and far more consistently too, than in the latter half of 2010/11.

Although, "What? fecking what?" was pretty good.
 
nahealai said:
It's not, mate. Look at his "touch" in the build-up to that goal again; it was abysmal.

If memory serves, he was even on the verge of being substituted such was his shiteness in that game.
Click to expand...

Not arguing with that bit. He was shit before, shit that game, but afterwards his form recovered dramatically.
 
nahealai said:
Fair enough. I also think his form post-strop is being grossly overrated here too, though. He was vastly improved on his pre-strop form, but Rooney has played better for us, and far more consistently too, than in the latter half of 2010/11.

Although, "What? fecking what?" was pretty good.
Click to expand...


Fair enough. I cannot ever remember a better Rooney (05/06 was pretty damn good but not quite the all round article) but that's opinions for you. :)
 
Mainoldo said:
Over head kick season Rooney was shocking. that was the best thing about his season.
Click to expand...

Just no. After the nonsense with his contract was sorted he was outstanding the back end of that season. He stepped up in all of the big matches.
 
Sixpence said:
Just no. After the nonsense with his contract was sorted he was outstanding the back end of that season. He stepped up in all of the big matches.
Click to expand...

Yep, he was genuinely excellent after that. People like to rewrite history to make it sound like Rooney's only ever actually been good for a few seasons, which is clearly nonsense. He's been brilliant for the majority of his time here.
 
adam118 said:
Lesser fee and lesser quality most likely. If Thiago had decided to stay then it would have been more likely. Unless they did go for a centre midfielder who is more defensive to balance the amount of attacking players they have at their disposal.
Click to expand...

They may not see it as necessary to replace him with a midfielder, though. The premise here is that he doesn't really fit the system (he hasn't emerged as a true heir to Xavi). They have several youth products on their books, some of which aren't that young anymore either. I don't know these players well enough, really, but they do have several back-up options in the middle. Song is still there, for one. They've got, whatshisface, Sergio (?) and another Sergio (?). And some Italian lad as well.
 
Brightonian said:
Bollocks.
Click to expand...

Compared to his previous season he it wasn't that impressive at all. Yes he played good here and there but it's expected. He didn't have a bad season this season but people will still say he's been crap.. you have to judge him against himself. He didn't have a good season that season period.

But enough of Rooney... We need to hurry up a get the Fab.
 
In all seriousness, what is going on with this? I've just been talking to my mate about this and he was telling me that he's heard Spanish reporters talking about this on the radio and they are very confused by this, along with Barcelona and Fabregas apparently. Barca have reiterated that Fabregas is not, and never has been, for sale. In addition to this, Fabregas' advisors are maintaining that he doesn't want to leave and are surprised by the bid.

I've just been thinking about this and the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that we just tried our luck. Perhaps we hoped that a a good offer would tempt Barca, even if they wouldn't have entertained the idea in theory. In making a bid, perhaps we were hoping that Barca being tempted could create frictions and make the deal a possibility. The benefit of going public with our bid is that we can be seen to be attempting to solve the obvious issue with our midfield. If we don't sign a midfielder and Moyes is seen to have made no attempt then maybe there would be a backlash from the support. Hence going public.

On the flip side, the offer may be a success and we may land Fabregas. Win-win. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of to understand our actions here.
 
Mainoldo said:
Compared to his previous season he it wasn't that impressive at all. Yes he played good here and there but it's expected. He didn't have a bad season this season but people will still say he's been crap.. you have to judge him against himself. He didn't have a good season that season period.
Click to expand...

Again, bollocks. After that City game he was excellent. It's the 'Rooney hasn't been good for ages' vision kicking in.
 
pocco said:
In all seriousness, what is going on with this? I've just been talking to my mate about this and he was telling me that he's heard Spanish reporters talking about this on the radio and they are very confused by this, along with Barcelona and Fabregas apparently. Barca have reiterated that Fabregas is not, and never has been, for sale. In addition to this, Fabregas' advisors are maintaining that he doesn't want to leave and are surprised by the bid.

I've just been thinking about this and the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that we just tried our luck. Perhaps we hoped that a a good offer would tempt Barca, even if they wouldn't have entertained the idea in theory. In making a bid, perhaps we were hoping that Barca being tempted could create frictions and make the deal a possibility. The benefit of going public with our bid is that we can be seen to be attempting to solve the obvious issue with our midfield. If we don't sign a midfielder and Moyes is seen to have made no attempt then maybe there would be a backlash from the support. Hence going public.

On the flip side, the offer may be a success and we may land Fabregas. Win-win. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of to understand our actions here.
Click to expand...


feck knows really. I just hope we have something else in mind should this fail (and tbh it looks very likely it will). And I hope it's not Fellaini
 
pocco said:
In all seriousness, what is going on with this? I've just been talking to my mate about this and he was telling me that he's heard Spanish reporters talking about this on the radio and they are very confused by this, along with Barcelona and Fabregas apparently. Barca have reiterated that Fabregas is not, and never has been, for sale. In addition to this, Fabregas' advisors are maintaining that he doesn't want to leave and are surprised by the bid.

I've just been thinking about this and the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that we just tried our luck. Perhaps we hoped that a a good offer would tempt Barca, even if they wouldn't have entertained the idea in theory. In making a bid, perhaps we were hoping that Barca being tempted could create frictions and make the deal a possibility. The benefit of going public with our bid is that we can be seen to be attempting to solve the obvious issue with our midfield. If we don't sign a midfielder and Moyes is seen to have made no attempt then maybe there would be a backlash from the support. Hence going public.

On the flip side, the offer may be a success and we may land Fabregas. Win-win. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of to understand our actions here.
Click to expand...


That would represent a really poor approach - I trust that our transfer tactics are more refined than this. One thing is for sure, I don't trust the reports of most media outlets, especially in Spain where they're in place to report what the clubs want them to, as opposed to what is accurate.
 
I personally don't believe United would be stupid enough to leak a bid whilst receiving no encouragement at the other end. They might have overhyped their chances a tad, but I don't think it's based on nothing.

That said, all the signs point to it being a 'try your luck' approach. That's what's coming out of Spain. Either way, it's odd.
 
pocco said:
In all seriousness, what is going on with this? I've just been talking to my mate about this and he was telling me that he's heard Spanish reporters talking about this on the radio and they are very confused by this, along with Barcelona and Fabregas apparently. Barca have reiterated that Fabregas is not, and never has been, for sale. In addition to this, Fabregas' advisors are maintaining that he doesn't want to leave and are surprised by the bid.

I've just been thinking about this and the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that we just tried our luck. Perhaps we hoped that a a good offer would tempt Barca, even if they wouldn't have entertained the idea in theory. In making a bid, perhaps we were hoping that Barca being tempted could create frictions and make the deal a possibility. The benefit of going public with our bid is that we can be seen to be attempting to solve the obvious issue with our midfield. If we don't sign a midfielder and Moyes is seen to have made no attempt then maybe there would be a backlash from the support. Hence going public.

On the flip side, the offer may be a success and we may land Fabregas. Win-win. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of to understand our actions here.
Click to expand...
Two questions:

1. Why would our chief executive fly all the way to Spain if we had no chance at all?

2. Why would moyes mention that said chief executive was away to "negotiate" the deal, if there absolutely zero possibility?

Everything points towards there being something to this potential transfer. Whether it happens or not is another matter but I think we see it as a possibility.
 
pocco said:
In all seriousness, what is going on with this? I've just been talking to my mate about this and he was telling me that he's heard Spanish reporters talking about this on the radio and they are very confused by this, along with Barcelona and Fabregas apparently. Barca have reiterated that Fabregas is not, and never has been, for sale. In addition to this, Fabregas' advisors are maintaining that he doesn't want to leave and are surprised by the bid.

I've just been thinking about this and the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that we just tried our luck. Perhaps we hoped that a a good offer would tempt Barca, even if they wouldn't have entertained the idea in theory. In making a bid, perhaps we were hoping that Barca being tempted could create frictions and make the deal a possibility. The benefit of going public with our bid is that we can be seen to be attempting to solve the obvious issue with our midfield. If we don't sign a midfielder and Moyes is seen to have made no attempt then maybe there would be a backlash from the support. Hence going public.

On the flip side, the offer may be a success and we may land Fabregas. Win-win. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of to understand our actions here.
Click to expand...

If Fabregas wasn't interested, I am sure his agent would have gone public by now, to stop the nonsense, particularly with Tito's shocking news causing the club some difficult times.

I won't accept that Fabregas is humouring us, that isn't the style of the lad. He isn't sure he is wanted by Barca or by the fans (see the polls) , whereas he knows he will be very welcome here, be given the job of midfield General for the current EPL Champions, who have signalled their intention to spend whatever it takes to retain the title.

He needs Barca to reject the offers before he will have confidence that he is wanted, but most of us believe that Barca will sell at the right price. Any new manager may desire to bring his own favourites and may need the cash to do so. Cesc knows this too.

Interesting soap opera.
 
Maybe we've made this all public so that when Fellaini inevitably comes in the club can say that we at least tried for the likes of Fabregas.

Lulz
 
Status
Not open for further replies.