United would've won the league title in 2003/04 had Ferdinand not been banned.
Fabregas, Barcelona, & Badge Kissing.
- Thread starter Ceks
- Start date
Henry finally had a great season in the champions league, big deal.. a player of Henry's stature is expected to perform in the Champions league.
Cesc was unreally good during that European Campaign, he was the dominant force despite his tender age. He wasn't afraid to take on Europe whereas the likes of Veira/Henry continuously dissapointed on the big stage.
As for Arsenal being perennial underachievers.. that's neither here nor there..Fabregas/Arshavin apart, alot of the current Arsenal team lack a winning mentality IMO despite being constantly heralded as the next big thing. My mentioning of that particular season was just to highlight that Fabregas is a player of enough calibre to base a whole title challenge on, if surrounded by solid enough characters/players.
As for Xavi/Iniesta, it's only now they're getting rave reviews and being viewed as superstars of world football in their own right.
Rivaldo, Figo, Ronaldinho were all playmakers who dominated the Barcelona team through the years and dictated the majority of play.. this current Barca team has 3 playmakers and the likes of Xavi/Iniesta aren't seen as a sideshow anymore and have been afforded more creative license, despite Messi obviously being the leading light.
My point being that Xavi has done shit-all until after the age of say 25/26..yet now hes viewed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.. so what's to say Fabregas can't reach his level.
Iniesta is 25, he was sensational last year...if he can add more goals to his game..he can be another level to Xavi, he also has more natural talent than Fabregas ..if he could just view himself as one the world's greats(aura, belief, presence) there is nothing that should stop him from challenging for Ballon'dor etc
Making hypothesis like this one is easy, it's a big "if".Who's to say they wouldn't have bottled it some other way ?
Could've, should've .. Yeah doesn't matter either way, I've tried to explain what I meant in my above post. 'Could have' would have been a better term to use.
Personally 07/08 ..the quality of football on display, and the competitiveness of the league was so good, The prem peaked that year for me. Great United team, Chelsea were two years younger than the current team..and Arsenal still had Adebayor, Hleb, Flamini.
So for Arsenal to have been such great challengers that year.. and for Fabregas to have been leading figure for the Gunners that season says alot for his ability.
In short Fabregas is superb, still 22 with potential to get even better. His eye for a pass and ability to run a match are 2nd to few. The comparisons to Xavi/Scholes are valid and if Fabregas has shown anything at his tender age it is that he is destined to be in that catagory of player soon enough.
It'll be a shame for Arsenal if he does leave for Barcelona, as playing for them he'd get the recognition he deserves and more.
It'll be a shame for Arsenal if he does leave for Barcelona, as playing for them he'd get the recognition he deserves and more.
He hasn't been the best thing since sliced bread but certainly the best midfielder in the world the last few years. Fabregas should reach his level and Iniesta beat it. Iniesta is a tricky one. I think if he maximizes his talent he'll be at Messi and Ronaldo's level.
Totally agree.. the only thing holding him back is his demeanor/mentality. He could be the world's greatest if he let himself, unleashing a few more shot's wouldn't harm his chances either.
I don't think it's just about scoring. He just needs to look at the CL final. He was unplayable. I can't remember us being taught such a lesson in midfield, more so than against Milan. His was a masterclast. If it wasn't us getting the pasting, I would download the game and watch that performance again and again. The way he controlled the tempo and plastered his class all over the length of the pitch was something else. I can't think of any midfielder in world football who could have done that to us.
Xavi and Fabregas as good players are they are, are more limited.
Iniesta's problem is that he is literally white. Like a dead body.
Dead person:
Iniesta is like Fabregas on speed. But yes, he is a dead person.
He's a Vampire. That's the only reasonable explanation.
Odd thread - its pretty obvious that as good as Fabregas is he is still just about in that 'potential waiting to be fullfilled' bracket for me and for that he has another season or so to go before we start to look at him on a real player 'finished article' level
Scholes however is 'the definiteive 'finished article' imo - a great player who has nothing more to prove at club level. Done and won it all but Scholes is proven - has stepped up to the plate in the biggest of matches time and again
At international level I dont think that is the case, which is sad as we have had on our hands here a brilliant player who maybe suffered at the hands of some idiotic decisions by England managers although personally I do believe Scholes has had enough opportunities overall to shine at international level but has just, imo of course, fallen a little short
Fabregas has the game to be up there with Scholes although for me lacks real pace and 'quick feet' which Scholes possesses and Scholes I think scores more. Passing and everything else Fabs is in there batter tackler I'd say but as for hitting the consistant heights of Scholes especially in his prime - he's some way to go
Scholes however is 'the definiteive 'finished article' imo - a great player who has nothing more to prove at club level. Done and won it all but Scholes is proven - has stepped up to the plate in the biggest of matches time and again
At international level I dont think that is the case, which is sad as we have had on our hands here a brilliant player who maybe suffered at the hands of some idiotic decisions by England managers although personally I do believe Scholes has had enough opportunities overall to shine at international level but has just, imo of course, fallen a little short
Fabregas has the game to be up there with Scholes although for me lacks real pace and 'quick feet' which Scholes possesses and Scholes I think scores more. Passing and everything else Fabs is in there batter tackler I'd say but as for hitting the consistant heights of Scholes especially in his prime - he's some way to go
Pretty much spot on.
I would say Scholes wasn't helped much in England not only because of being shunted out to the left, but even before that, because of England's primitive long-ball football, especially under Sven. That type of play was never going to get the best out of Scholes for obvious reasons.
Wrong nationality our Scholesy. He's a classy Spaniard/South American in the body of a shy ginger Englishman.
Now, let's merge this thread with the other superspascticated one.
Is/can Fabregas be better than Zidane and/or Platini provided he continues to play further upfront?
Who's (was) better out the three?
Is/can Fabregas be better than Zidane and/or Platini provided he continues to play further upfront?
Who's (was) better out the three?
Stop the clock at 21 and there's no argument. Let's have another look at 31.
Age definitely matters for the sake of this argument - posters are trying to compare a player at his peak with another one widely regarded in the "potentially great" bracket and trying to belittle the latter.
Fabregas was already comparable with Xavi from the 05/06 season - if not had better seasons than Xavi from 05-07. But in the last couple of seasons Xavi has stepped up to a different level. Its apparent a top class experienced midfielder playing for the best team in the world would certainly be rated higher and can shine more compared to a young footballer playing along with a raw team even if he's more talented.... Last season even when Fabregas was not in his elements, he did put in some great performances then and there.
As for Xavi he wasn't really a great player around 2003; it was after Barcelona signed Davids on a loan spell he got the freedom to move up and attack and Davids was covering him from behind. He gradually improved from then on and never looked back. Its not hard to make out Fabregas being more devastating if he plays along with a better team, blinkers aside he would definitely do better than Xavi on the longer run.
If we plan to replace Scholes next season, who do you ideally prefer...Xavi or Fabregas?
Why didnt we win the league in 04/06 even with Rio around and also with Rooney added?
We would've still won the league in 03/04 if Ruud had converted all his four penalties. Sum that up with that loss against Wolves, we have more points than goons. Also Silvestre was the best defender that season, even when Rio was playing.
Still stand by that! If he plays for Barca or Real Madrid, I dont think he would be rated any less than Xavi....
England never had a midfield after Hoddle's time and when Scholes was at his peak it was Gerrard along with Hargreaves in the middle, Beckham on the right with Scholes shunted to the left of a spastic diamond formation - Gerrard and Hargreaves in the same midfield alone can send any team on a downward spiral. With England was often indulging in various moronic tactics to get a goal, there was hardly any scope for Scholes to shine, even Zidane would've struggled to find some foothold in that midfield.
Almost every other run on the mill team took the piss out of that midfield - the tactic was 9 men defending inside their own third, Beckham hoofing the ball to Heskey who was held the ball up for Boy wonder to gallop upfront and score.
When Scholes was around 23 or 24 our system was like Keane covering four attacking players from behind with our attacking plays from outwide more often than breaking through the middle. Scholes still was our main orchestrator in the midfield of Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Butt.
Well it was a pretty big deal for Arsenal because they wouldn't have been reaching the Champions League final that season otherwise
Arsenal fans making silly exaggerated claims? Really? You shock me
In fairness, this is just complete and utter nonsense you're spouting. Xavi has been a top player for Barca for a good decade now - bar one injury ravaged season he hasn't played less than 36 games for his team in a campaign - and has been one of their most vital players throughout
As for Iniesta, his breakthrough season was 2004-05, he's averaged nearly 50 games a season since then, and it's coincided with the best spell in Barcelona's history. And he's been getting sensational plaudits from those who recognise what a player he is
From 99-2009 eh?
Yes
Good lad Brad...Can you also list out five random differences between a buffallo and a bison
Thanks!
Thanks!
1)I've eaten buffalo, I've never eat bison
2)Bison rhymes with Tyson, bufalo doesn't
3)Buffalo is domesticated while bison isn't
4)Buffalo are native to Asia and Africa, bison to the America's
5)
is fitter than
Iniesta only got the world wide recognition he deserved only last season (some would even say in the last quarter of last season), from all plaudits. I find it funny because he has always played like this and his style has not changed at all. Now it seems alot of people are jumping on the bandwagon and claiming they knew all along.
It conveys how team success can change perceptions on how individual players are viewed which relates to this argument on Cesc Fabregas when being compared to the Ginger Prince. Also alot of it can be down to how he was rotated a bit under Rijkaard. When Barca won the CL in 2005/06 he came on as a sub if my memory serves me right , contrast that with last season where he ran the whole show in the final.
It conveys how team success can change perceptions on how individual players are viewed which relates to this argument on Cesc Fabregas when being compared to the Ginger Prince. Also alot of it can be down to how he was rotated a bit under Rijkaard. When Barca won the CL in 2005/06 he came on as a sub if my memory serves me right , contrast that with last season where he ran the whole show in the final.
People need to twist facts to make their point the winner don't they
As clear as fking day Xavi and Inniesta are now great players
They have been at Barca a long time but also as clear as day no way have they performed at this level in all that time
Xavi has been more consistant over the last three years
Before that, although good, he always looked like he could add to his game and he has but he has absolutely not been a great player for ten years - thats fking rubbish
Iniesta likewise - they have both responded to the manager imo and are now at the very top
In respect of Fabregas he does have work to do but frankly he is not that overshadowed by them and unsdoubtedly at the Euros was a main feature in Spain's victorious tournament - overall in that tournament he was undoubtedly as effective a fixture as the other two - arguably moreso
In general they are just above Fabs although frankly should Fabregas fullfill his potential he will be better than both Xavi and Iniesta in my book wether he stays with us or leaves
As clear as fking day Xavi and Inniesta are now great players
They have been at Barca a long time but also as clear as day no way have they performed at this level in all that time
Xavi has been more consistant over the last three years
Before that, although good, he always looked like he could add to his game and he has but he has absolutely not been a great player for ten years - thats fking rubbish
Iniesta likewise - they have both responded to the manager imo and are now at the very top
In respect of Fabregas he does have work to do but frankly he is not that overshadowed by them and unsdoubtedly at the Euros was a main feature in Spain's victorious tournament - overall in that tournament he was undoubtedly as effective a fixture as the other two - arguably moreso
In general they are just above Fabs although frankly should Fabregas fullfill his potential he will be better than both Xavi and Iniesta in my book wether he stays with us or leaves
Complete toss
And actually I think rather adequately already addressed by the post preceding it:
Why didnt we win the league in 04/06 even with Rio around and also with Rooney added?
We would've still won the league in 03/04 if Ruud had converted all his four penalties. Sum that up with that loss against Wolves, we have more points than goons. Also Silvestre was the best defender that season, even when Rio was playing.
Oh. You missed the total irony.
Though we were top when Rio got banned, clearly Arsenal going unbeaten was always going to be difficult to overcome.
But then I'd just read a few posts from Gooners saying they'd have won the title in 2007/08 if Eduardo hadn't gotten injured, so what do you expect me to write?!
You were actually in 2nd place when Rio's suspension started.
I'm going to have to call you on that one. I remember differently, though I'm fully prepared to be wrong. I thought we were top heading into February? Rio had stopped playing by then.
No, no he hasn't, he stepped it up for the last half a year from being a very good player and an important part of the Barcelona team to a top player and a vital part of the Barcelona team. For the previous two seasons he was a level below, and while he was still good there was a clear gap in quality between him and Xavi. There's not any more, even though Xavi's maintained such a high level of performance.
Rio's ban started after that Wolves game your lot lost, I believe he went off injured in that game. You had 50 points after 22 games and we had 52.
I have now rendered your point as invalid, please refrain from ever posting in this thread again
This.
Complete idiot
Go on try and convince us that both Iniesta and Xavi have been world class for ten years
......We're waiting Bradley
Don't always agree with you Brownie Boy but that's correct