Fabinho
- Thread starter Maradona10
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We still have Butt at the club, and, I'm sure Keane and Scholes are itching to answer the call from Maureen. Midfield sorted!
Maureen....really?
Head says it's over with, stick a fork in it.
The muppet heart tells me the recent reports are leaks to get us to act quicker!
The muppet heart tells me the recent reports are leaks to get us to act quicker!
We have missed out here, Even for a bit exorbitant fee. I think when you brag about your financial muscle to the whole world and talk about conquering the football world you need to show it in your purchases. It was a simple deal to do. I think united have just simply refused to pay 50 million for him.
The negotiation teams for City & Chelsea look fantastic. Quick sharp dealings without too much fuss, with us always having so many drawn out sagas. Maybe Redissue and other fanzines who have called Edward inept are correct.
The negotiation teams for City & Chelsea look fantastic. Quick sharp dealings without too much fuss, with us always having so many drawn out sagas. Maybe Redissue and other fanzines who have called Edward inept are correct.
I think that is pretty clear. Without Raiola tossing tables over to get his clients a big contract, Woody is clueless
Behave yourselves, man. This idea that the vice-chairman of Manchester United is this bumbling fool getting shafted in every single deal he hasn't got his hand held in is one of the most bizarre narratives that gets ran on this forum.
So, L'equipe's journalist that follows PSG said:"PSG have a M.O, they only make offers when they have an agreement with the player." I interpret it as "PSG don't have an agreement with Fabinho and therefore didn't made an offer yet".
Agreed. I'm a fan of Fabinho but the main reason people are getting so upset is because they've got attached to a narrative. The player himself is a relatively small part of that, in my view.
Absolutely no-one would've been excited about the idea of signing Casemiro - even the ones who'd watched him. I watched him in the Paulistão for São Paulo and in the U20 World Cup for Brazil and while he was evidently a level above that, I would've been totally underwhelmed if we'd brought him in to be our midfield enforcer. If it wasn't for a handful of games in the UCL, most people here wouldn't have a clue who Fabinho was beyond lots of uninsightful youtube clips. The faux-outrage that's accompanying this story is exactly that: it's the story, not the player.
If you look some of the midfield enforcers to play in recent CL finals - Busquets, Casemiro, Gabi, Khedira, Bender, Mikel, Cambiasso, van Bommel - just a couple of years before playing in that final, or even while they were playing in that final, they were seen as thoroughly unimpressive. That doesn't mean the role is unimporant but it does mean that the possible net of players that can play that role at the highest level is significantly larger than the very limited group of players fans will take any interest in. Even for some of the people that supposedly closely watch right backs from every country in Europe. It's just the nature of the role.
Gabi was playing in the second division for Zaragoza when he was 25. Yet he went on to be one of the most important players in a team that won the league against the biggest duopoly in football history, reaching two CL finals in the process. Mikel has been a laughing stock for most of his Chelsea career yet he started in both quarter finals, both semi finals and the final of the Champions League, playing an important if understated role in the defensive resilience that saw them go unbeaten in that 5-game run.
You can spin that whatever way you want but the facts are what they are. The most important thing is for the midfield enforcer to be the right fit for the rest of the team. In truth, his individual excellence tends to play a very limited role in the success. If we were talking about the next Keane, Matthaus or Rijkaard then sure, the dismay would be justified. This is just a bunch of obsessive folk losing sight of reality and getting caught up in the story - the highs, the lows and everything in between.
Great post!
Just to add - I don't know if you remember the calls for Luiz Gustavo a few years ago. He was rated very highly when he was the starting DM for Bayern until he was replaced by Javi Martinez (who was moved to CB after his first season)
I think the reality was, Luiz Gustavo was an above average enforcer that played in a very good side and suited the team rather than him being some sort of world class talent.
He's got a good name. Let's get him.
Bebé wasn't a good name? Shame. He was just a 'P' and 'l' away from all time great.
There are managers out there who would love to have Fabinho in their team. As, evidently, would a large number of caftards. I just don't believe that Mourinho is of the same mind.
Posters say that Mourinho might all of a sudden start becoming more attacking. But the evidence of last season is that he's still a safety-first manager. Hell, in the Arsenal game, he had his wingers take the throw-ins instead of the fullbacks, ffs.
Fabinho would clearly welcome a move to United + Monaco are willing to sell him + We have money to burn. The only part of the formula that's missing is our willingness to make a bid. I simply don't think that he's a priority for Jose. If he were, we'd have him signed up by now.
Posters say that Mourinho might all of a sudden start becoming more attacking. But the evidence of last season is that he's still a safety-first manager. Hell, in the Arsenal game, he had his wingers take the throw-ins instead of the fullbacks, ffs.
Fabinho would clearly welcome a move to United + Monaco are willing to sell him + We have money to burn. The only part of the formula that's missing is our willingness to make a bid. I simply don't think that he's a priority for Jose. If he were, we'd have him signed up by now.
Good post to read, thanks. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Matic ended up being the player that we end up with and he does very well for us, as I certainly rate him higher than some of the names you listed. I'm not sure signing Fabinho instead of Matic will drastically change anything for us. That may go some way to explaining why we might be keeping our powder dry when signing someone for this position. Or we might hold off altogether and chance our arm with TFM or Pereira or one of our centre backs. Let's see.
Mourinho seems to prefer Tuanzebe in the role, judging by the games at the end of the season. At the time, I saw it as his audition for the backup DM position this coming season.
Lol.
Behave yourselves, man. This idea that the vice-chairman of Manchester United is this bumbling fool getting shafted in every single deal he hasn't got his hand held in is one of the most bizarre narratives that gets ran on this forum.
But for sure we have made mistakes in the market for 4 years now. Man utd has become a massive ship which takes 5 minutes to turn when the steering is full astern for 5 minutes. The continues saga's and transfer mistakes are energy sappingly boring with united.
I think its more than that. Yes there are many options who are the right fit for the position, But some certain other factors also add up to the perception of the fans of him being a Priority no 1 that united must get.
For years united's midfeild have been energetic,mobile,fast paced and attacking, which made man united the darling of world football along with the super attacking options up front we have had in fergie days. Since the likes of carrick's getting old and fellani being the moyes preferred candidate the slow lethargic midfeild have not been a satisfying experience for the fans out there. While holding diciplined midfeilders add security and stability to the midfeild but the whole experience seeing a united team slower in attacking transition and lacking energy and ability to destroy and counter have not gone don well in wide set of the fan base as so not united esque. Players with high energy and positional awareness and better passing range adds to the defense attacking transitional speed which makes him the fans prefered no 1 target.
Also a player who can play in multiple positions as a cover for a rb spot adds to the perception of the fans than just getting a Positionally diciplined cdm who will be the right fit But will not be a cover for the likes of pogba when injured or rested, who can replace energy with energy. Also a More dynamic player will allow more freedom for the full backs to join in attacking and overlapping without having them to worry about defensive vulnerability at the back which the fans would like to see.
Its about the whole experience of having to see the same old dominant energetic explosive united team with a faster attacking transition capable of destroying midfeilds and defenses.
Chelsea have signed no one and City have signed one more player than us.
Whats the result right now for City?
The quickness with which pep and city acted for bernardo silva and ederson both without having to let other top clubs be involved in the same players reguardless of the price is what is important here to see. The likes of Silva was one of the most important players for pep to implement and better his philosophy and execution on the pitch and he was electric in getting him as he is desperate to not let other get the player and get them who would improve the execution 10 fold.
We are not acting in the same way, and we are making mistakes in the market for 4 years now, its not a new thing under woodward.
You're still crying over Silva?
Woodward buys the players managers want. We had a good window last season.
The most attractive style of football we played under Sir Alex was in 06/07, in my view. The midfield trio was Giggs, Carrick and Scholes, none of whom were remotely associated with energy or mobility at that stage. In spite of that we absolutely played dominant, energetic, explosive counter-attacking football. Surely that tells you something?
I'm not saying the idea of having a dynamic, disciplined, intelligent midfielder like Fabinho is anything to turn your nose up at but the reality is you've created a very limited definition of what "United-esque" is and what midfield setup we need to create it. I don't think we ever had a midfielder like Fabinho under Sir Alex. Maybe Djemba-Djemba or Nicky Butt? He obviously could be better than both of them but neither played a defining role in what United's all about.
In other words I think you've misrepresented our history to fit the narrative that Fabinho is the man we need, which goes back to my original point. It's not about the player but about the narrative. People have gotten so attached to the idea of him joining that they're having to misrepresent the facts to justify that attachment. The reality is there's no need to: if people spend literally every day for weeks and weeks imagining Fabinho in our team, the idea of not having him in our team naturally becomes more difficult to imagine.
What a load of nonsense. We've bought the likes of Mata, Herrera, Bailly, Pogba, Romero, Falcao, Di Maria and others during Ed's reign. Get a fecking grip FFS.
I am not crying over silva, But its becoming a trend since late fergie era and its the clear reason of us finding ourselves in this situation. Its was not just silva , we have missed modric benzema hazard moura thiago strootman kroos pedro mane kante too. Other teams are hijacking the players we should have signed, which clearly has made us miss ucl for 2 seasons and end up way way off the title with significant lack of quality and balance in the squad.
We had a good window but still clearly we lacked that balance in the squad and edge required to beat other top 5 teams who are strengthening too. To break the game of having to play catch up we need to cut others paths and make our own till we get the squad we need.
How do you know the managers wanted all these players?
The pessimism on here about us not signing Fabinho is idiotic.
If he were so damn good we would be talking about bidding wars with Barcelona and Madrid not our manager possibly being uninterested and Monaco's domestic rival signing him instead.
You know who was that must-have midfielder? Pogba. And he joined us. So now we need to focus on a good complement to get the best out of him. Is it Fabinho or is it any of a half dozen decent CMs out there? I'll leave that to Jose.
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Idiotic is harsh. But there is a ridiculous bit of losing ones head over this one.
If he were so damn good we would be talking about bidding wars with Barcelona and Madrid not our manager possibly being uninterested and Monaco's domestic rival signing him instead.
You know who was that must-have midfielder? Pogba. And he joined us. So now we need to focus on a good complement to get the best out of him. Is it Fabinho or is it any of a half dozen decent CMs out there? I'll leave that to Jose.
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Idiotic is harsh. But there is a ridiculous bit of losing ones head over this one.
And Yet we were the unbalanced squad for the philosophy we were trying to implement and have not improved much in terms of league Peformances, We have also missed the likes of strootman kroos thiago pedro mane kante and despite buying so much we have always lacked something to have a good title challenge. Clearly we have not been efficient like the way we should be.
That's not Woodward's fault.
Explain what you mean by "players we should have signed". Just because they are good doesn't mean United should sign them or could have signed them. The players themselves need to have the desire to come to United and understand they need to earn their way into the team. We don't know the real back story of those players in the reason why they didn't come to United, Hazard aside. And going by the list you provide, you have 5 central midfielders (impossible to play them all), two right sided midfielders in Pedro and Mane (can't play them both at once) and Benzema would have been nice but would he have really displaced the center forwards United had or bought during that time?
Year Moyes really set the club back 3 years and United are just beginning to dig out of it with Jose. You look at the in's and out's since LVG's first year and the change has been drastic because the last couple of years with SAF and Year Moyes, the team didn't change much and it was an old team; so much of it's previous identity was stripped away. Between SAF last years and the summer end of Year Moyes, United lost world class players and didn't replace them or didn't find their proper heirs. It's not easy, especially with the competitive teams in the PL where United may be able to provide a higher salary, but other teams are able to push out high transfer fees as well.
Its a well known fact fergie wanted modric benzema hazard moura and we got outbid for the players. Strootman was one of the targets fergie identified for the 2013 window but woodward and moyes had a disastrous summer that year with inexperience and having to chase ungettable targets. Our thiago deal got hijacked by pep at bayern , Lvg vetoed the idea of kroos comming here as we buy manager preference targets, Pedro deal got hijacked by mourinho himself and we were too late for having todo ground work on mane so southhampton kept him for another year, next year mourinho ignored mane for mkh when we ideally should have singed both to fix our problems, kante chose chelsea as we were in for pogba.
Yes , we have made some mistakes in the market and united should learn from it. We have let others gain ground on us.
HArdly Woodwards fault. Not to mention the changing of managers. You know the one that will the major say in which players they want or otherwise.
It isn't a well known fact. We may have been interested in some of the players you listed as well as other players. The only summer that we missed our chances was 2013 when Fergie and Gill left and Moyes and Woodward came. Woody had no experience dealing with high level transfers. Other than that, he's done brilliantly.
You don't start your assessment based on players you think got away. You start it based on the players he bought relative to what each of the managers wanted.
So what you're saying for most of them is that the club didn't want them?
Well as we a manager oriented transfer system, When you change managers and philosophies along with them the loop holes of the system gets exposed if we keep on the same transfer policy system. When you sack a manager who have done the ground work on the squad and the players needed for the betterment of the squad and ignore his input and the groundwork and the new manager comes in with a different philosophy and new sets of targets and at the same time inflation hits the football market you are letting the squad being unbalanced and the mix of styles and systems not capable to implement the said philosophy on a higher level. And the same process is repeated again with a new manager having to ignore previous managers groundwork with a new style again.
Now who should take the blame? The CEO Or should the blame be on the transfer system of the club? Or Should the CEO take the blame of having to appoint a manager who's philosophy and play style does not fit the squad at the disposal?
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I don't even know what this bizarre word salad means.
Sry Dint get you. Can you please rephrase.
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It comes down to sustainability for me. Signing Matic is fine, but by doing so he's putting immense pressure on himself for instant results.
We can't just keep replacing players every season, that's not a sustainable approach. Matic is not going to improve, he's peaked and his sell on fee will be next to nothing. In a year or two, we'll just have to replace him again.
I don't mind who Jose signs, but given the age etc of Matic, it's obvious he's expecting instant results, which is what we should also expect then.
We can't just keep replacing players every season, that's not a sustainable approach. Matic is not going to improve, he's peaked and his sell on fee will be next to nothing. In a year or two, we'll just have to replace him again.
I don't mind who Jose signs, but given the age etc of Matic, it's obvious he's expecting instant results, which is what we should also expect then.
But the incoming new managers are not totally right in their decision making. Ignoring the previous managers ground work and a year long hard work and his input has been that loophole where the required right recruitment gets compromised. When there is stability in management the manager based system works wonders but when there is not Letting everything in the hands of a new incomming manager is a risk where it could get wrong because of his inexprience with the new squad , which is what has happened since woodward is in office.
Stop using text speak. We normally give out infractions for that.
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