F1 2024 Season

F-Red said:
He was 1/8 after Bahrain to win the title. Certain markets are taking bets on placing outside of Verstappen winning.

I wonder how long it’ll take before the FIA start to look at clipping Red Bulls wings to try to reign in their advantage.
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Question is how? The only way i can see is that they raise the height of the cars (which could happen under safety grounds) and vastly simplfy the floors, maybe reducing the depth and complexity of them. Its a mystery that must puzzle most of the pitlane. RB Cash App are running the powertrain, front and rear suspension of its big brother team, but are still towards the back of the grid. Over 50% of a cars downforce is generated by the floor. What are RedBull doing with the floor that is giving them such an advantage?
 
F-Red said:
I missed it, what did he say?
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When asked about Max he almost used the no one is bigger than the club line, and dodged a question about whether there's anyone tension between them. It was the no one is bigger than the club line that stood out for me
 
United Hobbit said:
When asked about Max he almost used the no one is bigger than the club line, and dodged a question about whether there's anyone tension between them. It was the no one is bigger than the club line that stood out for me
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Which is not necessarily true in motorsport
 
dinostar77 said:
Question is how? The only way i can see is that they raise the height of the cars (which could happen under safety grounds) and vastly simplfy the floors, maybe reducing the depth and complexity of them. Its a mystery that must puzzle most of the pitlane. RB Cash App are running the powertrain, front and rear suspension of its big brother team, but are still towards the back of the grid. Over 50% of a cars downforce is generated by the floor. What are RedBull doing with the floor that is giving them such an advantage?
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I agree with you, I think ride height and floor are the only areas to focus on.

United Hobbit said:
When asked about Max he almost used the no one is bigger than the club line, and dodged a question about whether there's anyone tension between them. It was the no one is bigger than the club line that stood out for me
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Driver silly season will be starting much earlier than normal this year.
 
What an utterly pointless sport. There's been a handful of seasons over the past two decades that haven't been completely dominated by one driver. Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstapen. Dull as dishwater
 
Redplane said:
Aye. Seems like there are way more examples of teams collapsing or at least regressing after their most successful driver leaves than not.
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Not really sure this is true is it? Or if it is it's more coincidence / as a result of car performance dropping.

Half the grid would win the title in that red bull, max is not the most important person at that team as much as they would want to keep him if they could.
 
pacifictheme said:
Not really sure this is true is it? Or if it is it's more coincidence / as a result of car performance dropping.

Half the grid would win the title in that red bull, max is not the most important person at that team as much as they would want to keep him if they could.
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Merc, Ferrari, RB, McLaren etc - none would have the level of success they had without their greatest drivers. Few drivers with the aggression, consistency, dominance, will and whatever other superlatives you want to throw out that match the likes of Michael, Lewis, Max, etc. The half the grid in that car quote gets thrown around every time someone is winning someone doesn't personally like. And yes while they do not design the car their input and mentality absolutely makes a huge difference. Just like it does in any other workplace. At the same time I do not forget this is a constructor sport, and a sport of strategy and the 3 absolutely need to work in harmonious tandem.
 
The other teams can't seem to have a battle with Perez now, we'll see if that changes in other tracks. Good for him he's doing a better job possibly but it could be even less exciting than last season. In a way it was good he was in the top 6 mix, now it's a very easy second.

Looking forward a little to see if Perez can do well at some of the street tracks like he used to or is the pack so bad and he's still way off.
 
redshaw said:
The other teams can't seem to have a battle with Perez now, we'll see if that changes in other tracks. Good for him he's doing a better job possibly but it could be even less exciting than last season. In a way it was good he was in the top 6 mix, now it's a very easy second.

Looking forward a little to see if Perez can do well at some of the street tracks like he used to or is the pack so bad and he's still way off.
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Checo is doing what he s supposed to but it does feel like the gap may be more pronounced than even last year when in the hands of a driver like Max. It looks like every time Checo picked up the pace in the last two races and Max stopped driving to a delta he d drop 1-2 secs s lap on even him.

Much is being made of the speed of cars, but articles focusing more on reduced tyre deg and increased reliability are imho focusing on the right two aspects that make it both impressive and at the same time boring to an extend. Gone are the days when even the top teams had to nurse their cars to victories in some (many?) races. Especially bc this is in some ways a soap box race, perhaps a different way then to spice it up is to seriously limit the money teams can spend on maintenance. But then again, would we really want to go down the path of playing with what is ultimately affecting driver safety as well.
 
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AndySmith1990 said:
What an utterly pointless sport. There's been a handful of seasons over the past two decades that haven't been completely dominated by one driver. Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstapen. Dull as dishwater
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In fairness, the same can be said for many other sports to a certain degree. Take football for example.. City now, United for much of the 90's and naughties, Liverpool in the 80's..

Here in Ireland, the GAA (hurling and football) has gone through many of the same eras of utter domination by one team (Dublin, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick).

In rugby it was the All Blacks, the Boks to an extent now. In Tennis we've gone through Federer and then Djokovic, with Nadal and Murray in the mix here and there. I'm sure there are many other examples I'm missing.

F1 does seem a but extreme with the level of complete domination that Hamilton and Verstappen have had at their best, but it is true that many other sports seem to have more periods of domination by one athlete / team than periods where honours are equally shared across a number of competitors.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
What an utterly pointless sport. There's been a handful of seasons over the past two decades that haven't been completely dominated by one driver. Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen. Dull as dishwater
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where has I see why you have posted this, I don't agree with you, OK so over that past 10-15-20 years one team has dominated for a time , then another has took over, but that's the same in any sport, and yes right now Max is dominating more than any other has, Saudi was I think the 40th race that he has been leader in the WC and yeah that is boring, but the races behind him are defiantly not dull.
Over this time there has been plenty of decent , in fact good racing, when Lewis was dominating, he did not have it all his own way, neither did Seb or Sch, not in the way Max has , lets be honest no competition.
F1 is all about the best driver in the best car with the best team all working in unison and delivering a top class product and over the years that has only been one team at a time that has managed that, I can honestly see why you would think it is boring, but look at the bigger picture.
 
Redplane said:
Merc, Ferrari, RB, McLaren etc - none would have the level of success they had without their greatest drivers. Few drivers with the aggression, consistency, dominance, will and whatever other superlatives you want to throw out that match the likes of Michael, Lewis, Max, etc. The half the grid in that car quote gets thrown around every time someone is winning someone doesn't personally like. And yes while they do not design the car their input and mentality absolutely makes a huge difference. Just like it does in any other workplace. At the same time I do not forget this is a constructor sport, and a sport of strategy and the 3 absolutely need to work in harmonious tandem.
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Lewis is still at Merc? McLaren only won one title? Red bull after seb had shit engines. Not sure about Ferrari but when did the dream team leave? Schumacher was there for two years after they won their last title so it's not like he left and they went to shit.
 
pacifictheme said:
Lewis is still at Merc? McLaren only won one title? Red bull after seb had shit engines. Not sure about Ferrari but when did the dream team leave? Schumacher was there for two years after they won their last title so it's not like he left and they went to shit.
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To understand the impact a top driver can have on a team, just see Schumacher from 97-99. More impressive than anything he did when Ferrari had the best car imo.

And Malaysia 99 after breaking his leg too.

This is a team sport but a top driver makes all the difference. The best championships are when a top driver is trying to beat a great team. When they join (Lewis-Mercedes, Schumacher and his team in the 00s, Max now) the sport gets boring.

That, the lack of refueling, better reliability has made F1 very sterile now.
 
NM said:
the lack of refueling
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People really should stop with this nonsense. Refuelling isn't something that F1 misses, there are many other ways to improve it.
 
Amar__ said:
People really should stop with this nonsense. Refuelling isn't something that F1 misses, there are many other ways to improve it.
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Read the whole post without spouting nonsense yourself. Different fuel strategies and different tire compounts along with it were great.

People should really read the whole post before commenting..
 
NM said:
Read the whole post without spouting nonsense yourself. Different fuel strategies and different tire compounts along with it were great.

People should really read the whole post before commenting..
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How do you think I read that without reading the whole post first?
 
NM said:
To understand the impact a top driver can have on a team, just see Schumacher from 97-99. More impressive than anything he did when Ferrari had the best car imo.

And Malaysia 99 after breaking his leg too.

This is a team sport but a top driver makes all the difference. The best championships are when a top driver is trying to beat a great team. When they join (Lewis-Mercedes, Schumacher and his team in the 00s, Max now) the sport gets boring.

That, the lack of refueling, better reliability has made F1 very sterile now.
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Drivers are only as good as the machinery they drive. Put Max, Alonso, Leclerc, Hamilton in this seasons Alpine and they will all be at the back of the grid. Drivers cant defy the laws of physics or change how the cars aerodynamics funtion.

Put it this way, Adrian Newey is the most crucial cog at RedBull. If he left and moved to Ferrari (under the current rules) Max wouldnt be winning titles with RedBull anymore, ferrari would be.

Nowadays it comes down the car designer who can interpret the ruleset in the most effcient manner. This has been the case since the 1990s and onwards.

Without Rory Bryne, Schmacher wouldnt have had the success he did. Without Newey Vettel wouldnt have win all those titles. Without James Allison, Hamilton wouldnt have won all those titles
 
Superbru Fantasy after Race 2
RankPlayerEBPPoleFinishersBonusesLapTot
1tmatras42188.5133.50
2UnitedHobbit42197133.00
3rpitroda42187132.00
4Balljy42195.5131.50
5pauldyson1uk42177131.00
6Eggy135741187.5030.50
7klsv42176130.00
8jaceNI21178129.00
9AhmerBaig22176128.00
10hob42183128.00
11Coleworld21185.5026.50
12Gene Loblaw20185.5126.50
13Jack-C2042172126.00
14AndyDerbs21183125.00
15Norris20166024.00
 
People overestimating driver impact. Tale as old as time. The gap from top to bottom is probably 5 or 6 tenths max.
 
I think last season was slightly more interesting behind Max as you had Checo coming through the field as he'd had a poor qualifying, then the McLarens Ferraris and Mercedes were fairly similar so they were racing each other

This season seems to be Max miles ahead, then Checo, then the Ferraris then possibly some competition between the McLarens and Mercedes. The gaps between all of them in the Saudi race meant there was no chance for racing - the best racing was the Alpines/Haas/RB lite group and Lewis trying to hold off Piastri. I want to see Max racing people because he's an extremely good driver. They even sound like it's so routine when they come on the radio after the race any other team and they'd be excited and celebrating

I may be old school (grew up watching it in the 90s) but nowadays I think there are way too many run off areas, so half the time if people do make a mistake, they can just keep going, whereas on gravel trap circuits you either get stuck or mess up your race. On half the tracks now you can mess up and just carry on almost unimpeded. Same for Perez penalty he was so far ahead of Charles he technically wasn't incurring a penalty.

Max yesterday probably didn't even have to go that close to the walls - he had such a cushion he could probably take a slightly safer line - why risk going to the extremes when you don't need to. Thus removing the jeopardy of the street track

It doesn't help these last 2 seasons have been off the back of the most exciting in recent memory (controversy excluded). 2 of the best drivers on the grid going into the last race level on points. Incidents throughout the season because they were actually racing each other?

Reliability outside the smaller teams seems so much better. Cars don't just have engine failure randomly. That's another thing that makes the RB so infallible, when was the last time they had a reliability issue? A bodged pit stop? One of the reasons I'm struggling to see why whoever it is is causing so much stir around CH if they aren't the PA involved - the standards I presume he as team principal has set, are exemplary, why disrupt a winning formula?

It would be really interesting to see what Adrian Newey could do if he went to a sleeping giant like a Williams - could he turn them around and get them back to champions or would their budget prevent it?

Perhaps an answer would be to implement a staggered cost cap - it increases the further down the constructors championship order you go - at least then teams would have more leeway to catch up.

I really don't know what the answer is as these regulations were to slow down mercedes, which they have, but they've just replaced by another team nailing the regulations.

The women's race apparently they were all in the same car just different liveries - perhaps do that for the sprint? I know a lot of it is the car design, but perhaps a separate championship for the sprint? Or counts towards the main one? The only other solution I can think is a reverse grid, but that's too artificial

I'll still watch, just as I still watch United even though we play dour football ATM, as I've grown up with it, but they are going to lose a lot of the fans they generated through Netflix because I'd imagine they have less connection to it so can easily leave it

It's sad it helps we have the fantasy league to keep my interest - part of the "excitement" and interest for me is seeing if people finish where I've put them

It says everything the race leader is barely shown, at one point yesterday he was in the little screen they show, while they showed the back markers actually racing each other! Even the commentators sounded like they were struggling to drum up interest and enthusiasm
 
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That Haas strat after Magnussen got the 20 second penalty was executed to perfection. Not only did he ensure Nico got points but since he wasn't lapped by Max he only lost 1 place to Albon with a 20 second penalty.

The drivers below him where actually well under 20 seconds behind him at the end of the race but since they got lapped they take the checkered flag a lap earlier and therefore Mags penalty was a complete non factor. Fair fecks to Haas for pivoting and making such a strategy work.

And as standard unbelievable from Max his peak run is now quite literally unmatched.
 
laughtersassassin said:
That Haas strat after Magnussen got the 20 second penalty was executed to perfection. Not only did he ensure Nico got points but since he wasn't lapped by Max he only lost 1 place to Albon with a 20 second penalty.

The drivers below him where actually well under 20 seconds behind him at the end of the race but since they got lapped they take the checkered flag a lap earlier and therefore Mags penalty was a complete non factor. Fair fecks to Haas for pivoting and making such a strategy work.
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It’s a far cry from what we saw under Gunther sometimes. Seemed like they consistently tried weird stuff with very low chance of success. But to be fair it only worked because of their really good straight line speed, which I guess Gunther can take some credit for.

Seems like they can fight for that 6th spot in the constructors this year, instead of being dead last.
 
dinostar77 said:
Drivers are only as good as the machinery they drive. Put Max, Alonso, Leclerc, Hamilton in this seasons Alpine and they will all be at the back of the grid. Drivers cant defy the laws of physics or change how the cars aerodynamics funtion.

Put it this way, Adrian Newey is the most crucial cog at RedBull. If he left and moved to Ferrari (under the current rules) Max wouldnt be winning titles with RedBull anymore, ferrari would be.

Nowadays it comes down the car designer who can interpret the ruleset in the most effcient manner. This has been the case since the 1990s and onwards.

Without Rory Bryne, Schmacher wouldnt have had the success he did. Without Newey Vettel wouldnt have win all those titles. Without James Allison, Hamilton wouldnt have won all those titles
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Don't disagree with any of that.

I said the sport is at its best when the best driver is in a slightly slower car.
 
United Hobbit said:
I think last season was slightly more interesting behind Max as you had Checo coming through the field as he'd had a poor qualifying, then the McLarens Ferraris and Mercedes were fairly similar so they were racing each other

This season seems to be Max miles ahead, then Checo, then the Ferraris then possibly some competition between the McLarens and Mercedes. The gaps between all of them in the Saudi race meant there was no chance for racing - the best racing was the Alpines/Haas/RB lite group and Lewis trying to hold off Piastri. I want to see Max racing people because he's an extremely good driver. They even sound like it's so routine when they come on the radio after the race any other team and they'd be excited and celebrating

I may be old school (grew up watching it in the 90s) but nowadays I think there are way too many run off areas, so half the time if people do make a mistake, they can just keep going, whereas on gravel trap circuits you either get stuck or mess up your race. On half the tracks now you can mess up and just carry on almost unimpeded. Same for Perez penalty he was so far ahead of Charles he technically wasn't incurring a penalty.

Max yesterday probably didn't even have to go that close to the walls - he had such a cushion he could probably take a slightly safer line - why risk going to the extremes when you don't need to. Thus removing the jeopardy of the street track

It doesn't help these last 2 seasons have been off the back of the most exciting in recent memory (controversy excluded). 2 of the best drivers on the grid going into the last race level on points. Incidents throughout the season because they were actually racing each other?

Reliability outside the smaller teams seems so much better. Cars don't just have engine failure randomly. That's another thing that makes the RB so infallible, when was the last time they had a reliability issue? A bodged pit stop? One of the reasons I'm struggling to see why whoever it is is causing so much stir around CH if they aren't the PA involved - the standards I presume he as team principal has set, are exemplary, why disrupt a winning formula?

It would be really interesting to see what Adrian Newey could do if he went to a sleeping giant like a Williams - could he turn them around and get them back to champions or would their budget prevent it?

Perhaps an answer would be to implement a staggered cost cap - it increases the further down the constructors championship order you go - at least then teams would have more leeway to catch up.

I really don't know what the answer is as these regulations were to slow down mercedes, which they have, but they've just replaced by another team nailing the regulations.

The women's race apparently they were all in the same car just different liveries - perhaps do that for the sprint? I know a lot of it is the car design, but perhaps a separate championship for the sprint? Or counts towards the main one? The only other solution I can think is a reverse grid, but that's too artificial

I'll still watch, just as I still watch United even though we play dour football ATM, as I've grown up with it, but they are going to lose a lot of the fans they generated through Netflix because I'd imagine they have less connection to it so can easily leave it

It's sad it helps we have the fantasy league to keep my interest - part of the "excitement" and interest for me is seeing if people finish where I've put them

It says everything the race leader is barely shown, at one point yesterday he was in the little screen they show, while they showed the back markers actually racing each other! Even the commentators sounded like they were struggling to drum up interest and enthusiasm
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Well there's staggered testing time, which should in theory work the same way. Of course it's done feck all so far.
 
Max will want to be tested and racing as well, maybe he could have a stronger team mate next year.

Perhaps more neutral regs are needed. Teams still very puzzled how to design the car, difficult setup, puzzling narrow windows of performance, cars still bouncing along. Or it's up to them to understand and we benefit in the long run from less dirty air.

It's a team sport and you can only admire the Red Bull team and Max is clearly in the top bracket of drivers executing the laps. It's tempting to want a lead driver and not take points away. Hamilton Rosberg was pretty good, as was Vettel Webber. Max needs a higher benchmark.

Not sure what 2026 brings and Red Bull making their own engine. Red Bull suffered a lot with poor Renault and Honda power and reliability, great chassis just no power. As a team they will want to clean up now and not help others.
 
redshaw said:
Max will want to be tested and racing as well, maybe he could have a stronger team mate next year.

Perhaps more neutral regs are needed. Teams still very puzzled how to design the car, difficult setup, puzzling narrow windows of performance, cars still bouncing along. Or it's up to them to understand and we benefit in the long run from less dirty air.

It's a team sport and you can only admire the Red Bull team and Max is clearly in the top bracket of drivers executing the laps. It's tempting to want a lead driver and not take points away. Hamilton Rosberg was pretty good, as was Vettel Webber. Max needs a higher benchmark.

Not sure what 2026 brings and Red Bull making their own engine. Red Bull suffered a lot with poor Renault and Honda power and reliability, great chassis just no power. As a team they will want to clean up now and not help others.
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I'd be all for a reduction in ground effect, simplifying the cars and putting the emphasis back on the drivers to make the difference. But F1 is a oxymoron. We get told that what F1 does has to be relivant to road cars i.e. technology cascading down the stack. However F1 still have a ban on active suspension which is used by alot of road cars. The use of active suspension would fix the issue that some teams have with getting the rear of the car to push down enough to create enough traction. Cars wouldnt have to be run so stiff so drivers wouldnt have their spines and teeth rattled around.

We have the stupid artifical cliffs for the tyres, whereas if they just said you must run all 3 compounds in a race weekend and the tyres were constructed to last the duration of the race, drivers could go flat out all the time (like they do in motogp). Knockon effect being they put the car under more strain and reduce reliability.

Lets not forget, ground effect was brought in to counter the wake from the rear of the car. However the amount of wake produced by these cars has been inceasing season by season again. The uncontrolled wake from the tyres being a major culprit.

The racing could easily be improved, but it wont happen. So the only hope for next season is RedBull putting in someone more competative in the other seat. Maybe this RedBull civil war will end up with a f*** you from horner to Jos, helmet and max, and he will put alonso in the other seat.

How box office would next season be with max v fernando in a RedBull and Hamilton v Leclerc in a ferrari? Even if Redbull zoom off into the distance it would be nip and tuck between max and fernando race after race. The pressure in the garage would be intense.
 
United Hobbit said:
When asked about Max he almost used the no one is bigger than the club line, and dodged a question about whether there's anyone tension between them. It was the no one is bigger than the club line that stood out for me
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There does seem to be a struggle between the people running the team (Horner, the owners, maybe Newey) and the Dutch group (Max, Jos, Marko). The owners have taken a lot of flak to keep Horner in charge while the other 3 seem quite willing to stir up trouble privately and back each other publicly.

Ultimately everyone at that team has come across terribly. It seems to me that Jos and Marko have taken the chance offered by the accusation to try and get rid of Horner at the expense of the team and accuser (I doubt whoever leaked that info gave a damn about her). Both seem like scum frankly. Meanwhile Horner and the owners just want to keep control.
 
Tyrion said:
There does seem to be a struggle between the people running the team (Horner, the owners, maybe Newey) and the Dutch group (Max, Jos, Marko). The owners have taken a lot of flak to keep Horner in charge while the other 3 seem quite willing to stir up trouble privately and back each other publicly.

Ultimately everyone at that team has come across terribly. It seems to me that Jos and Marko have taken the chance offered by the accusation to try and get rid of Horner at the expense of the team and accuser (I doubt whoever leaked that info gave a damn about her). Both seem like scum frankly. Meanwhile Horner and the owners just want to keep control.
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What has Max done to stir up trouble?
 
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