F1 2024 Season

Buster15 said:
Joke of a post.
Full of unfounded accusations and generalisations.

I don't dislike Max because of where he is from.
And I have said many times he is a fantastic driver.

But I do dislike him because he can be a danger to other drivers as well as himself.

As soon as someone challenges him, he tends to lose his cool and we all saw what happened yesterday. Including the race stewards who were correct in their penalties.
Click to expand...
What, because I summed up the most common reasons why people on here hate Max but not all reasons? I said many on here hate him for said reasons, not all. So yes, a generalisation, and that makes it a joke of a post? Hardly unfounded as well, it's pretty plain to see and based on many years of reading and posting in this thread.

Also, in my post I said Max lost his head yesterday. The penalties.. well. One of them was correct, like I said. Hell, even Max has said he agrees with that one The other is very much up for debate. The stewards were again very inconsistent in handing out penalties. If you hand out 5s penalties to Russell and Norris for forcing another driver off the track in Austin you should hand out the same penalty to Max here. If you penalize Max for pushing Lando off you should also penalize others for doing the same and that includes Perez. If you give Max "community service" for saying "feck" in a presser then you should do the same to Leclerc here. But that hardly ever happens, especially when the steward is Herbert, a man who loves the attention. And get this, one of the other stewards was the son of one of the founders of McLaren. I wonder whose side he'd be on in an incident involving a McLaren title challenger. It's a shambles :lol:
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Many on here simply hate Max because he's not British, he's an aggressive driver and he says what he thinks I stead of the usual politically correct answers. If he makes a mistake or makes a snarky remark in the heat of the moment people on here are frothing at the mouth, ready to tear him a new one. Been that way for years now and it won't change. Lando or Russell pushes someone off? No big deal. Max does it to Lando? MAX IS A DANGER TO THE ENTIRE PLANET! THE DEVIL INCARNATE!

Now of course Max does go over the edge sometimes, and he did yesterday with that second incident where he obviously lost his head, dove down the inside, missed the corner and still stayed ahead. The 10 second penalty for that was the right call, obviously. The one before that though where Norris was on the outside and got pushed off? How is that a 10 second penalty if others have recently gotten a 5 second penalty for similar incidents? And why didn't the stewards hand out more penalties? Yesterday we saw drivers get pushed off so many times I lost count. Yet nobody got penalized except Max. There was more inconsistency after the race in the presser where Leclerc said feck. Why no punishment? The answer is of course Johnny Herbert being the steward. He's shown so many times he's biased but the FIA don't care.
Click to expand...
Dude that's rubbish. No one hates max cause he isn't "British". I for one like his directness in how he speaks. I like his sim racing stuff as well.

It's the dirty tactics on track that he doesn't need to do, as he's an extremely talented driver. There's no need for it. He's lucky this season that he has such a huge margin in points. Similar antics next season might cost him a WDC.

If you can't see why max deserved both 10 second penalties yesterday then you need to take a look at your own biases
 
what with ten hag and verstappen. it’s about time we asked if the world can afford a country like the netherlands.
 
Verstappen’s rise and stay at the top is unfortunately the by-product of F1 being entertaiment more than sport, he is a bit unhinged right now and, as such, a liability for his peers and the whole circus. Wondering whether he would try rallies or even American races in case things go really south?
 
the easiest way to deal with all those stewarding controversies is to introduce var. the cars are electronically stopped immediately after an incident, and we have the on-track steward run to a tv screen at the side of the track and decide the punishment there and then. we then have a restart, which everyone enjoys. then if max races like a dick and gets a 20 second penalty, his car is disabled for 20 seconds at the restart.
 
Penalties are up to the discretion of the stewards.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
What, because I summed up the most common reasons why people on here hate Max but not all reasons? I said many on here hate him for said reasons, not all. So yes, a generalisation, and that makes it a joke of a post? Hardly unfounded as well, it's pretty plain to see and based on many years of reading and posting in this thread.

Also, in my post I said Max lost his head yesterday. The penalties.. well. One of them was correct, like I said. Hell, even Max has said he agrees with that one The other is very much up for debate. The stewards were again very inconsistent in handing out penalties. If you hand out 5s penalties to Russell and Norris for forcing another driver off the track in Austin you should hand out the same penalty to Max here. If you penalize Max for pushing Lando off you should also penalize others for doing the same and that includes Perez. If you give Max "community service" for saying "feck" in a presser then you should do the same to Leclerc here. But that hardly ever happens, especially when the steward is Herbert, a man who loves the attention. And get this, one of the other stewards was the son of one of the founders of McLaren. I wonder whose side he'd be on in an incident involving a McLaren title challenger. It's a shambles :lol:
Click to expand...
I haven't read the version of Russell's penalty from last week but Norris was given a 10s penalty but was reduced to 5 as Verstappen left him nowhere to go. Perez definitely drove ugly and should have been penalized

As I said the issue comes from looking at who's marginally ahead at the apex(and not how), it's one of the criteria but not everything, stewards are making a mistake judging around that. Norris jumped Verstappen at T4 apex by under braking and then was pushed outside for a corner which was deemed his.

Even funnier that Horner came with the telemetry data to show that Norris was never going to make the turn, as if that matters.
 
hobbers said:
Sky coverage is full of dense little englanders like Ted, Croft, Lazenby who are just zealots for English drivers. And they're covering a dying sport that needs controversy to drive engagement.

Those two factors often coalesce, which is why you see them parroting ludicrous conspiracy theories, or massively exaggerating radio comments, mistakes and aggressive driving from foreign drivers, usually Max and Alonso since they're the most successful, they did it to Seb and Rosberg too back when they were winning. While turning a blind eye to the same radio behaviour/mistakes/aggressive driving when Lando or Lewis are the ones doing it.
Click to expand...

Is F1 really a dying sport?
Wonder what data there is to back that up.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Sainz deserves better than Williams. Hope he gets back to a good car relatively soon.

Also, good to see K-Mag get a good result before he departs F1. Haas really cementing that 6th spot in the constructors.
Click to expand...
It's a real shame he isn't in the Mercedes for next season. He deserves it. Besides it would be a good barometer check between him and Russell,

Unfortunately totto is obsessed with antonelli, who I think is far too young to be in a top team in F1. You can see it with Piastri, there are mistakes, but they are highlighted so much more as he drives for McLaren.
 
slyadams said:
Hard to tell because Lewis hasn’t had a competitive car for so long. However, an 80% Hamilton deals with Leclerc.

I also wonder who Ferrari will ultimately favour. Leclerc was the golden boy but he hasn’t lived up to the hype. The story of Hamilton winning the record 8th (9th*) title crossing the line in the red car AND reclaiming the glory from Merc makes me believe Hamilton would be strongly favoured.
Click to expand...
It will be very interesting to see the racing between Hamilton and Leclerc. Obviously the fairytale would be for lewis to get no 8 in a Ferrari. Personally I think he would retire at that point and not be around for 2026. However as Hamiltons race engineer said these regs don't suit Hamilton driving style so it could Leclerc who emerges victorious.

Ominously for the rest of the gird, the Ferraris are looking good, this is despite the knowledgeable that they are leaving down force on the table as the rear suspension in its current setup (pull rod) cannot cope with more downforce and they will be switching to push rod for 2025, as currently run by most of the grid.
 
Buster15 said:
Is F1 really a dying sport?
Wonder what data there is to back that up.
Click to expand...

It's absolutely not, I don't have any data to hand but it's widely known that since Liberty Media became involved & Drive To Survive became popular that F1 has soared in popularity.
 
hobbers said:
The on track side of it has been slowly dying for a long time. Now the environmental push is speeding up that decline by ruining tyres and engines.

The controversy/social media side peaked in 2021. D2S viewing figures falling since then. Apparently season 6 viewing figures were down 30% from season 5, which sounds massive. The american bubble has burst.

That's why there's such a push for a track in Africa and street circuits in places like Seoul.
Click to expand...

You make a valid point about the phasing out of fossil fueled engines.

But the number of F1 races each year has been steadily increasing. And that is most likely the reason behind the push to have a race in the African continent.

And I heard that the number of spectators watching F1 has also been increasing.

I do agree with you that for some bizarre reason, fans thrive on controversy. Although for me, I am more interested in the technology as well as the racing.
 
Rodgerzzz said:
It's absolutely not, I don't have any data to hand but it's widely known that since Liberty Media became involved & Drive To Survive became popular that F1 has soared in popularity.
Click to expand...

Thank was what I thought, although I too have to admit that I don't have the data to support that.
 
Buster15 said:
Thank was what I thought, although I too have to admit that I don't have the data to support that.
Click to expand...

A couple of quick examples are the enormous increase in team valuations (even back marker teams are worth crazy money now) & also Liberty buying MotoGP trying to replicate the success they've had with F1, I'm fairly confident they wouldn't have bothered if they hadn't made a huge success of their F1 ownership.
 
hobbers said:
It's a commercial juggernaut because of post-covid expansion and netflix, but the declining spectacle of the races will have a big impact. A huge chunk of revenue last year was just from the novelty of Vegas. The novelty will wear off, especially if the 2026 cars are as horrible to drive and race as a lot of teams are fearing.

The expansion model seems to be get a flashy new street race at least every 2 years to keep pumping in new money.
Click to expand...

Regarding the declining spectacle of the races.
That is what the sport should be about. And I have to say that this year, we have seen a number of close exciting races, with no one team or driver dominating as before.
 
Sigh. Back to the classic generalisation of everyone on this forum disliking Max because he isn’t British. There’s something quite ironic about that.

Also funny how Sky favouring British drivers somehow means all of us must be the same.
 
Buster15 said:
I do agree with you that for some bizarre reason, fans thrive on controversy.
Click to expand...
It's hardly bizarre is it? Something happens that people talk about, controversy creates cash. Nobody is gonna talk about a race where nothing happens.
 
Buster15 said:
Is F1 really a dying sport?
Wonder what data there is to back that up.
Click to expand...
No, financially it's never been better and the profit they're posting is impressive. It's the first time in a long time that teams are becoming profitable as well, so nothing is dying. I think also 2021 was a bit of a outlier in terms of awareness and popularity, given everyone was sat at home. It is certainly not sustainable or even going to be replicated anywhere in the future given the unique conditions.

It's important not to get the above mixed up with the quality of the racing. When the regulations are settled over a 2-3 year period then the closeness of racing improves. Changes in 2026 will change the pack again and the racing probably won't see much improvement tbh. I said for years that the 2022 regulations haven't improved racing, bearing in mind that it was designed to get cars running closer together and I think these specific regulations have failed in that objective.
 
I missed this. Verstappen and Colapinto both given two penalty points each on their super licence for their incidents with Norris and Lawson.
 
Buster15 said:
Is F1 really a dying sport?
Wonder what data there is to back that up.
Click to expand...
Depends on one's definition of sport, doesn't it? To those to who consider WWE a sport it remains a thriving sport.

(And I'm not talking about the age old argument whether driving a car is a sport)
 
Abizzz said:
Depends on one's definition of sport, doesn't it? To those to who consider WWE a sport it remains a thriving sport.

(And I'm not talking about the age old argument whether driving a car is a sport)
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. And just to be clear, someone else posted that F1 was a dying sport.
I responded to that asking whether that was correct.
 
hobbers said:
Looking back at footage again now, that 10 second penalty for turn 4 was genuinely obscene.

Obviously it's similar to Austin in that Norris did the same as Max and released the brakes to be ahead at the apex, but because he's on the outside he was never making that corner even if Max's car vanished into another dimension. Max had nowhere to go and no other driver on the planet would have backed out in that situation.

But regardless of all of that, Lando cuts across the grass and gets ahead anyway, so even if you think Max did something dubious going into the corner, he doesnt get any advantage out of it. You'd have to be as deranged as Herbert to give any penalty for that let alone 10 seconds.
Click to expand...

Verstappen had plenty of room on the left hand side of the exit of turn 4, his steering wheel wasn't even on full lock which is was at turn 5 which would intimate that a driver of his calibre either judged the corner extremely poorly or was tactically pushing Norris off the track - I think most know that Verstappen has the steering sensitivity set very high to ensure he can turn the car with little effort.

The new onboards which Sky published this morning only adds weight to the decision from the stewards. Norris was deemed to be ahead of Verstappen in every stage of the corner by the stewards and if given the correct space he would have made the corner no problem. All this despite Horners best attempts of artwork to insinuate that an F1 car with 15kph additional speed can't stop on a six pence.


dinostar77 said:
I missed this. Verstappen and Colapinto both given two penalty points each on their super licence for their incidents with Norris and Lawson.
Click to expand...

Verstappen's looks to be solely on the turn 4 incident - https://www.fia.com/sites/default/f...g another driver of the track (corrected).pdf

I'm surprised they've done nothing with the turn 8 incident, which was more dangerous.
 
hobbers said:
Nope. No driver on the gird would have positioned their car differently to Max in that situation, and he is the only one who would have taken a penalty for that. End of. And it's not even relevant because Lando still gained the position from the move, so there was no precedent for a 10 second penalty.
Click to expand...

The judgement from the stewards was that Norris was ahead and would have been ahead of Verstappen had Verstappen actually turned his steering wheel to make the corner and given space, which is judged he didn't - there was no understeer from the onboards, he looked to be in control of the car. Unsurprisingly that telemetry data would have been available to Horner but he's chose not to bring that to the discussion.

The position Norris gained from leaving the track was getting ahead of Sainz, which he gave back, there was no other rule that Norris broke. The precedent on any time penalty is simply down to the FIA (not F1 specific) sporting code due to Verstappen forcing another car off the track. Austria this year is enough of a precedent and similar 10 second penalties for breaches of the sporting code happened in F3's feature race in Spa.
 
hobbers said:
Last I'm saying on this.. Norris kept the position he gained during the corner, so he was not disadvantaged by anything that happened in the corner. It's unprecedented to give a 10 second penalty to a driver who hasn't caused a material (track position/damage) disadvantage to the other party.

I dont care about telemetries or steering lock, it's obvious from both onboards no other driver would have submitted from the track position Max was in, not in a million years. And all the ones who didnt submit in these situations later in the race, like the 2 I mentioned, did not get penalties. Even when they gained positions and caused damage.
Click to expand...
If I'm reading between the lines correctly - the double penalty can be interpreted to having been applied as a way to make a statement - punitive damages if you will - rather than for legitimate reasons. If so, then I guess that's probably what Horner was referring to when it came to questioning the full amount of penalties. Neither her nor Max seemed to deny he deserves some type of penalty - just not both. Is that what you are implying as well?
 
Redplane said:
If I'm reading between the lines correctly - the double penalty can be interpreted to having been applied as a way to make a statement - punitive damages if you will - rather than for legitimate reasons. If so, then I guess that's probably what Horner was referring to when it came to questioning the full amount of penalties. Neither her nor Max seemed to deny he deserves some type of penalty - just not both. Is that what you are implying as well?
Click to expand...
One 10 second penalty was fair. Getting both was ridiculous in my opinion.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
One 10 second penalty was fair. Getting both was ridiculous in my opinion.
Click to expand...
hobbers said:
Yes Max was penalised twice despite only gaining an advantage once. And since no other driver got a penalty for forcing cars off track, despite several doing so and gaining advantages from it, the only conclusion is that penalty was to punish the driver for being who he is rather than for his driving.
Click to expand...
Yeah I definitely had my question marks over that as well. I hope RB uses it's right to review and its granted. Even as a Max fan I dont excuse him for all his driving that day but the double penalty was odd. Even if it would have been 10 and 5 it would have made a bit more sense.

Glad there is another race already in a way though - imagine if we had a long break - we d have to see headlines about this for a while yet. Guess now the new thing is whether Checo will be dropped before Brazil after his dad's cryptic tweet.
 
Redplane said:
Yeah I definitely had my question marks over that as well. I hope RB uses it's right to review and its granted. Even as a Max fan I dont excuse him for all his driving that day but the double penalty was odd. Even if it would have been 10 and 5 it would have made a bit more sense.

Glad there is another race already in a way though - imagine if we had a long break - we d have to see headlines about this for a while yet. Guess now the new thing is whether Checo will be dropped before Brazil after his dad's cryptic tweet.
Click to expand...
Not sure but I think Horner has already said they won't fight it. Don't think there is much of a chance of them getting anything from it because they would need to bring new evidence that wasn't available when the penalty was dished out I believe. What could that possibly be? Is others not getting penalized for the same thing new evidence?
 
hobbers said:
Nope. No driver on the gird would have positioned their car differently to Max in that situation, and he is the only one who would have taken a penalty for that. End of. And it's not even relevant because Lando still gained the position from the move, so there was no precedent for a 10 second penalty.

Turn 7 was its own thing but turn 4 is no different to about a dozen other incidents that weren't penalised. Obvious examples when Perez dive bombed Lawson off in the chicane and at the next corner Lawson forced Perez off despite being over half a car length behind at the apex.
Click to expand...
Well that settles it....
 
hobbers said:
They wouldnt gain anything anyway, Max finished 11s behind Russell.

Be better off doing what Toto did in Austin and dropping some conspiracy theories. Get it firmly in the public domain that having heavily partisan tv pundits stewarding races is terrible optics. Imagine the furore if a Dutch Viaplay pundit started volunteering, and Norris 'coincidentally' was handed unprecedented penalties whenever he was stewarding.
Click to expand...
Based on Herbert's comments in the press now the conspiracy theories are supporting themselves. Man should be removed from his position. Even the majority of Reddit and fans of other drivers and teams there seem to be in alignment on that.
 
Difficult to not find some conflict of interest but as ever it seems anything British is strongly disliked with all kinds of rhetoric thrown in. I've come across this in F1 a lot on forums and by drivers like Rosberg. Nothing is mentioned if an Italian, Spaniard, Swiss, and French are the stewards or lets say the Spanish press are partisan or the coverage is supportive of Spanish drivers and attacking other drivers. Brits on the panel, hang on a minute, vague association with a British team, hang on.

What if an Italian steward has some connection with Ferrari, he can't be on the panel too or what if he rules in favour of an Italian driver and so on. It's quite a demanding role and Herbert has been doing it for a long time, I doubt the expertise and time demands go well with peoples lives and careers, and it would be very difficult to find a group for each race that is neutral with so many nationalities and multiple jobs people have had in the motor industry. No Dutch, no Austrians, No brits, no-one that has work or have an association with a company within the industry, where does it end?
 
redshaw said:
Difficult to not find some conflict of interest but as ever it seems anything British is strongly disliked with all kinds of rhetoric thrown in. I've come across this in F1 a lot on forums and by drivers like Rosberg. Nothing is mentioned if an Italian, Spaniard, Swiss, and French are the stewards or lets say the Spanish press are partisan or the coverage is supportive of Spanish drivers and attacking other drivers. Brits on the panel, hang on a minute, vague association with a British team, hang on.

What if an Italian steward has some connection with Ferrari, he can't be on the panel too or what if he rules in favour of an Italian driver and so on. It's quite a demanding role and Herbert has been doing it for a long time, I doubt the expertise and time demands go well with peoples lives and careers, and it would be very difficult to find a group for each race that is neutral with so many nationalities and multiple jobs people have had in the motor industry. No Dutch, no Austrians, No brits, no-one that has work or have an association with a company within the industry, where does it end?
Click to expand...
unfortunately, as a nation, we produce great engineers and drivers. that breeds a lot of resentment when other nations have to cheat to try and get close to us.
 
Lewis Hamilton will pay tribute to Ayrton Senna by driving his McLaren MP4/5B on Saturday 2nd Nov, after F1 sessions.​
 
Track has been resurfaced and water blasted and softer compounds are being brought by Pirelli.​
 
FP1 and Sprint qualifying today.
FP1 at 14.30 UK time
Sprint Qualifying at 18.30 UK time.
Weather looks interesting could be wet for FO1 dry for sprint qualifying.
Saturday and Sunday look like a mix of sun and thunderstorms
 
Legitimately this is the best season since probably 2010. How many different race winners and teams who at certain points were top dogs.

Also Damon Hill can feck off. He lucked into an artificial championship battle in 94 and nearly lost the title to a rookie in 96 when nobody else could realistically match the Williams. He was kissed on the dick by a rainbow in his F1 career and Max’s response was bang on.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Legitimately this is the best season since probably 2010. How many different race winners and teams who at certain points were top dogs.

Also Damon Hill can feck off. He lucked into an artificial championship battle in 94 and nearly lost the title to a rookie in 96 when nobody else could realistically match the Williams. He was kissed on the dick by a rainbow in his F1 career and Max’s response was bang on.
Click to expand...

It's a shame Red Bull didn't fall off a few races earlier so the drivers championship could be closer. Imagine if Norris and Verstappen were level on points going into these races.
 
mitChley said:
It's a shame Red Bull didn't fall off a few races earlier so the drivers championship could be closer. Imagine if Norris and Verstappen were level on points going into these races.
Click to expand...
just verstappen bombing into norris’ side pods every race so he wins on count back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.