F1 2024 Season

Buster15 said:
Thank was what I thought, although I too have to admit that I don't have the data to support that.
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A couple of quick examples are the enormous increase in team valuations (even back marker teams are worth crazy money now) & also Liberty buying MotoGP trying to replicate the success they've had with F1, I'm fairly confident they wouldn't have bothered if they hadn't made a huge success of their F1 ownership.
 
hobbers said:
It's a commercial juggernaut because of post-covid expansion and netflix, but the declining spectacle of the races will have a big impact. A huge chunk of revenue last year was just from the novelty of Vegas. The novelty will wear off, especially if the 2026 cars are as horrible to drive and race as a lot of teams are fearing.

The expansion model seems to be get a flashy new street race at least every 2 years to keep pumping in new money.
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Regarding the declining spectacle of the races.
That is what the sport should be about. And I have to say that this year, we have seen a number of close exciting races, with no one team or driver dominating as before.
 
Sigh. Back to the classic generalisation of everyone on this forum disliking Max because he isn’t British. There’s something quite ironic about that.

Also funny how Sky favouring British drivers somehow means all of us must be the same.
 
Buster15 said:
I do agree with you that for some bizarre reason, fans thrive on controversy.
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It's hardly bizarre is it? Something happens that people talk about, controversy creates cash. Nobody is gonna talk about a race where nothing happens.
 
Buster15 said:
Is F1 really a dying sport?
Wonder what data there is to back that up.
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No, financially it's never been better and the profit they're posting is impressive. It's the first time in a long time that teams are becoming profitable as well, so nothing is dying. I think also 2021 was a bit of a outlier in terms of awareness and popularity, given everyone was sat at home. It is certainly not sustainable or even going to be replicated anywhere in the future given the unique conditions.

It's important not to get the above mixed up with the quality of the racing. When the regulations are settled over a 2-3 year period then the closeness of racing improves. Changes in 2026 will change the pack again and the racing probably won't see much improvement tbh. I said for years that the 2022 regulations haven't improved racing, bearing in mind that it was designed to get cars running closer together and I think these specific regulations have failed in that objective.
 
I missed this. Verstappen and Colapinto both given two penalty points each on their super licence for their incidents with Norris and Lawson.
 
Buster15 said:
Is F1 really a dying sport?
Wonder what data there is to back that up.
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Depends on one's definition of sport, doesn't it? To those to who consider WWE a sport it remains a thriving sport.

(And I'm not talking about the age old argument whether driving a car is a sport)
 
Abizzz said:
Depends on one's definition of sport, doesn't it? To those to who consider WWE a sport it remains a thriving sport.

(And I'm not talking about the age old argument whether driving a car is a sport)
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Thank you for this. And just to be clear, someone else posted that F1 was a dying sport.
I responded to that asking whether that was correct.
 
hobbers said:
Looking back at footage again now, that 10 second penalty for turn 4 was genuinely obscene.

Obviously it's similar to Austin in that Norris did the same as Max and released the brakes to be ahead at the apex, but because he's on the outside he was never making that corner even if Max's car vanished into another dimension. Max had nowhere to go and no other driver on the planet would have backed out in that situation.

But regardless of all of that, Lando cuts across the grass and gets ahead anyway, so even if you think Max did something dubious going into the corner, he doesnt get any advantage out of it. You'd have to be as deranged as Herbert to give any penalty for that let alone 10 seconds.
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Verstappen had plenty of room on the left hand side of the exit of turn 4, his steering wheel wasn't even on full lock which is was at turn 5 which would intimate that a driver of his calibre either judged the corner extremely poorly or was tactically pushing Norris off the track - I think most know that Verstappen has the steering sensitivity set very high to ensure he can turn the car with little effort.

The new onboards which Sky published this morning only adds weight to the decision from the stewards. Norris was deemed to be ahead of Verstappen in every stage of the corner by the stewards and if given the correct space he would have made the corner no problem. All this despite Horners best attempts of artwork to insinuate that an F1 car with 15kph additional speed can't stop on a six pence.


dinostar77 said:
I missed this. Verstappen and Colapinto both given two penalty points each on their super licence for their incidents with Norris and Lawson.
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Verstappen's looks to be solely on the turn 4 incident - https://www.fia.com/sites/default/f...g another driver of the track (corrected).pdf

I'm surprised they've done nothing with the turn 8 incident, which was more dangerous.
 
hobbers said:
Nope. No driver on the gird would have positioned their car differently to Max in that situation, and he is the only one who would have taken a penalty for that. End of. And it's not even relevant because Lando still gained the position from the move, so there was no precedent for a 10 second penalty.
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The judgement from the stewards was that Norris was ahead and would have been ahead of Verstappen had Verstappen actually turned his steering wheel to make the corner and given space, which is judged he didn't - there was no understeer from the onboards, he looked to be in control of the car. Unsurprisingly that telemetry data would have been available to Horner but he's chose not to bring that to the discussion.

The position Norris gained from leaving the track was getting ahead of Sainz, which he gave back, there was no other rule that Norris broke. The precedent on any time penalty is simply down to the FIA (not F1 specific) sporting code due to Verstappen forcing another car off the track. Austria this year is enough of a precedent and similar 10 second penalties for breaches of the sporting code happened in F3's feature race in Spa.
 
hobbers said:
Last I'm saying on this.. Norris kept the position he gained during the corner, so he was not disadvantaged by anything that happened in the corner. It's unprecedented to give a 10 second penalty to a driver who hasn't caused a material (track position/damage) disadvantage to the other party.

I dont care about telemetries or steering lock, it's obvious from both onboards no other driver would have submitted from the track position Max was in, not in a million years. And all the ones who didnt submit in these situations later in the race, like the 2 I mentioned, did not get penalties. Even when they gained positions and caused damage.
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If I'm reading between the lines correctly - the double penalty can be interpreted to having been applied as a way to make a statement - punitive damages if you will - rather than for legitimate reasons. If so, then I guess that's probably what Horner was referring to when it came to questioning the full amount of penalties. Neither her nor Max seemed to deny he deserves some type of penalty - just not both. Is that what you are implying as well?
 
Redplane said:
If I'm reading between the lines correctly - the double penalty can be interpreted to having been applied as a way to make a statement - punitive damages if you will - rather than for legitimate reasons. If so, then I guess that's probably what Horner was referring to when it came to questioning the full amount of penalties. Neither her nor Max seemed to deny he deserves some type of penalty - just not both. Is that what you are implying as well?
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One 10 second penalty was fair. Getting both was ridiculous in my opinion.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
One 10 second penalty was fair. Getting both was ridiculous in my opinion.
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hobbers said:
Yes Max was penalised twice despite only gaining an advantage once. And since no other driver got a penalty for forcing cars off track, despite several doing so and gaining advantages from it, the only conclusion is that penalty was to punish the driver for being who he is rather than for his driving.
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Yeah I definitely had my question marks over that as well. I hope RB uses it's right to review and its granted. Even as a Max fan I dont excuse him for all his driving that day but the double penalty was odd. Even if it would have been 10 and 5 it would have made a bit more sense.

Glad there is another race already in a way though - imagine if we had a long break - we d have to see headlines about this for a while yet. Guess now the new thing is whether Checo will be dropped before Brazil after his dad's cryptic tweet.
 
Redplane said:
Yeah I definitely had my question marks over that as well. I hope RB uses it's right to review and its granted. Even as a Max fan I dont excuse him for all his driving that day but the double penalty was odd. Even if it would have been 10 and 5 it would have made a bit more sense.

Glad there is another race already in a way though - imagine if we had a long break - we d have to see headlines about this for a while yet. Guess now the new thing is whether Checo will be dropped before Brazil after his dad's cryptic tweet.
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Not sure but I think Horner has already said they won't fight it. Don't think there is much of a chance of them getting anything from it because they would need to bring new evidence that wasn't available when the penalty was dished out I believe. What could that possibly be? Is others not getting penalized for the same thing new evidence?
 
hobbers said:
Nope. No driver on the gird would have positioned their car differently to Max in that situation, and he is the only one who would have taken a penalty for that. End of. And it's not even relevant because Lando still gained the position from the move, so there was no precedent for a 10 second penalty.

Turn 7 was its own thing but turn 4 is no different to about a dozen other incidents that weren't penalised. Obvious examples when Perez dive bombed Lawson off in the chicane and at the next corner Lawson forced Perez off despite being over half a car length behind at the apex.
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Well that settles it....
 
hobbers said:
They wouldnt gain anything anyway, Max finished 11s behind Russell.

Be better off doing what Toto did in Austin and dropping some conspiracy theories. Get it firmly in the public domain that having heavily partisan tv pundits stewarding races is terrible optics. Imagine the furore if a Dutch Viaplay pundit started volunteering, and Norris 'coincidentally' was handed unprecedented penalties whenever he was stewarding.
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Based on Herbert's comments in the press now the conspiracy theories are supporting themselves. Man should be removed from his position. Even the majority of Reddit and fans of other drivers and teams there seem to be in alignment on that.
 
Difficult to not find some conflict of interest but as ever it seems anything British is strongly disliked with all kinds of rhetoric thrown in. I've come across this in F1 a lot on forums and by drivers like Rosberg. Nothing is mentioned if an Italian, Spaniard, Swiss, and French are the stewards or lets say the Spanish press are partisan or the coverage is supportive of Spanish drivers and attacking other drivers. Brits on the panel, hang on a minute, vague association with a British team, hang on.

What if an Italian steward has some connection with Ferrari, he can't be on the panel too or what if he rules in favour of an Italian driver and so on. It's quite a demanding role and Herbert has been doing it for a long time, I doubt the expertise and time demands go well with peoples lives and careers, and it would be very difficult to find a group for each race that is neutral with so many nationalities and multiple jobs people have had in the motor industry. No Dutch, no Austrians, No brits, no-one that has work or have an association with a company within the industry, where does it end?
 
redshaw said:
Difficult to not find some conflict of interest but as ever it seems anything British is strongly disliked with all kinds of rhetoric thrown in. I've come across this in F1 a lot on forums and by drivers like Rosberg. Nothing is mentioned if an Italian, Spaniard, Swiss, and French are the stewards or lets say the Spanish press are partisan or the coverage is supportive of Spanish drivers and attacking other drivers. Brits on the panel, hang on a minute, vague association with a British team, hang on.

What if an Italian steward has some connection with Ferrari, he can't be on the panel too or what if he rules in favour of an Italian driver and so on. It's quite a demanding role and Herbert has been doing it for a long time, I doubt the expertise and time demands go well with peoples lives and careers, and it would be very difficult to find a group for each race that is neutral with so many nationalities and multiple jobs people have had in the motor industry. No Dutch, no Austrians, No brits, no-one that has work or have an association with a company within the industry, where does it end?
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unfortunately, as a nation, we produce great engineers and drivers. that breeds a lot of resentment when other nations have to cheat to try and get close to us.
 
Lewis Hamilton will pay tribute to Ayrton Senna by driving his McLaren MP4/5B on Saturday 2nd Nov, after F1 sessions.​
 
Track has been resurfaced and water blasted and softer compounds are being brought by Pirelli.​
 
FP1 and Sprint qualifying today.
FP1 at 14.30 UK time
Sprint Qualifying at 18.30 UK time.
Weather looks interesting could be wet for FO1 dry for sprint qualifying.
Saturday and Sunday look like a mix of sun and thunderstorms
 
Legitimately this is the best season since probably 2010. How many different race winners and teams who at certain points were top dogs.

Also Damon Hill can feck off. He lucked into an artificial championship battle in 94 and nearly lost the title to a rookie in 96 when nobody else could realistically match the Williams. He was kissed on the dick by a rainbow in his F1 career and Max’s response was bang on.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Legitimately this is the best season since probably 2010. How many different race winners and teams who at certain points were top dogs.

Also Damon Hill can feck off. He lucked into an artificial championship battle in 94 and nearly lost the title to a rookie in 96 when nobody else could realistically match the Williams. He was kissed on the dick by a rainbow in his F1 career and Max’s response was bang on.
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It's a shame Red Bull didn't fall off a few races earlier so the drivers championship could be closer. Imagine if Norris and Verstappen were level on points going into these races.
 
mitChley said:
It's a shame Red Bull didn't fall off a few races earlier so the drivers championship could be closer. Imagine if Norris and Verstappen were level on points going into these races.
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just verstappen bombing into norris’ side pods every race so he wins on count back.
 
I have 0 starts and 0 f1 wins and I've been on Max's back for years.


To be real he still has to show he is a good wheel to wheel racer in F1 (and he's been around a bit). He's great around a lap, but occasionally a hazard to anyone around him in equal machinery.
 
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Abizzz said:
I have 0 starts and 0 f1 wins and I've been on Max's back for years.


To be real he still has to show he is a good wheel to wheel racer in F1 (and he's been around a bit). He's great around a lap, but occasionally a hazard to anyone around him in equal machinery.
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His battles with Leclerc at the start of 22 were terrific honestly. He has had good ones with Sainz too.

It's when he knows he can afford to crash he goes overboard, especially when he has a car that's not good enough against the competition.
 
hobbers said:
From Max's point of view it must be hysterical reading critique of his driving style by Herbert (0 titles, 0 wins), Brundle (0 titles, 0 wins) and Damon Hill (1 title, 22 wins)
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I don't disagree with your overall point, but Herbert actually won 3 F1 races in his career.
 
hobbers said:
From Max's point of view it must be hysterical reading critique of his driving style by Herbert (0 titles, 0 wins), Brundle (0 titles, 0 wins) and Damon Hill (1 title, 22 wins)
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Herbert did not have that bad a record.
Johnny Herbert has enjoyed an illustrious career in motorsports, having raced for seven different teams in Formula One. A career that spanned 11 years, Johnny was able to secure three wins, seven podiums and 98 career points during his tenure in Formula One.
 
Adrian Newey has his work cut out for him when he starts next year. Aston Martin have gone back to the floor they used in Japan. The fourth race of the season. That's mental.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
McLaren lightyears ahead of everyone else
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Running the wing they ran in Singapore I think with the high downforce package. It's this particular package that they are extremely strong with.

Norris has to win both the sprint and race this weekend to keep his slim chances alive. His best opportunity especially with Max's engine penalty.
 
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